Jay Triano on life as a coach in the NBA

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign [00:00:04] Speaker B: welcome to the Canadian basketball show your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. I'm your host Lee Ben Osman. I'm joined in studio by a very, very special guest. He's had stops in Phoenix, Portland, Charlotte, Sacramento as assistant coach and associate head coach, was the first Canadian to be named a head coach in the NBA leading the Toronto Raptors for three season and has previously spent a total of 14 years, I believe if I'm correct, as a senior men's national team head coach two stints and is now with the Dallas Mavericks as an assistant coach. Jay Triano, welcome to the show, brother. [00:00:41] Speaker A: Appreciate it. Appreciate you guys having me for sure. [00:00:44] Speaker B: 24 years in the NBA. What's the secret? [00:00:48] Speaker A: I just want to know who knows. I think just the ability to work with people, work hard, treat people the right way. Obviously you got to have a little bit of success along the way, whether it's developing players, whether it's working with coaches and providing help to, to coaches. So I think the other thing is just adapting with the times. The game has changed drastically in those years. I mean the analytics involvement now and being able to just go away from old school basketball and learning a new style of, of game. I think all that plays a part of it. And, and, and then like a little bit of success too. Like a couple years ago we in Sacramento, we had the number one offense in the history of the NBA and everybody was like, wow, this is great. And now everybody's copying it and you got to find the next thing. So we're, we're still searching for what the next thing might be. [00:01:41] Speaker B: How much of a copycat league is it now? [00:01:42] Speaker A: Oh, it's crazy. Yeah, I mean everybody does the same. Like, you know, we don't really have a, a lot of walkthroughs anymore because it's all conceptual basketball now and teams are not slowing down run plays. They're playing with a lot more pace. They're playing faster as far as miles per hour that players run. They're covering more distance as in miles during a game than they ever have. And I think because of that we're seeing a lot more injuries in the, in the game and a lot more wear and tear on the players and coaches trying to figure out the balance between rest and recuperation. And how do you still play that style of game? So it's, the league is evolving. [00:02:20] Speaker B: The players obviously get tired, but do you not get tired? Because I think people watch the games on TV but they don't know the Grueling hours you guys work as coaches to prepare for the next game. How demanding is the NBA schedule for a coach behind the scenes? [00:02:35] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very demanding. I sometimes say when you're coaching these players, you give them a little bit of a break. Because I'm like, I'm tired as hell and I didn't get bumped and I didn't do anything physical. All mine is mental and staying up late and watching tape. And they're going through the same schedule, the same airplanes and the same travel, only they've had to do. They've got the physical part of it as well, and then the emotional part of it and then the mental part of it. So, you know, I give the players a lot of credit for battling through. But you know, we get treated the right way and that's why we get paid what we do. And it got to put on a show every night. So it's like, it's not unlike Broadway, you know, you still got to put. The show goes on and we got to be prepared and we got to try to play the best that we can every night. So it's a, it's a grind, but it's fun. It's basketball, come on. So I can't complain. Like I'd be watching games, I'd be breaking down tape, I'd be staying up late watching west coast games anyway. So this is, it's a, it's an honor and a privilege to still be in the profession. [00:03:37] Speaker B: Who was your favorite team growing up? Did you have a team? [00:03:39] Speaker A: Buffalo Braves. Buffalo Braves, yeah. Just being in Niagara Falls and the team was right across the border and you know, they had Ernie, Diego, Gregorio, Randy Smith, Jim McMillan, Gar Herd and Bob McAdoo. And those guys were just like, they made it to the playoffs and they played against the Celtics and with Havlic and stuff like that. So that started me on the NBA. You know, in my driveway I was doing the play by play pretending I was those guys. And who would have thought years later that I did TV and radio, so the play by play and then actually made it to the NBA as a coach. And you know, my dream was obviously to play to be a player in the NBA. But that didn't happen. But still now feel blessed to be in, in the business for over 30 years. [00:04:20] Speaker B: Touching on just like how the grilling schedule. What does like a typical like 24, 48 hour stretch look like for you in the NBA? Maybe like when it's a back to back, when it's like getting in Late sometimes. How quickly too do you have to like turn the page? Because I feel like it's a lot of like, okay, that was a tough loss, but we got to like, yeah, wire brain. [00:04:39] Speaker A: That's the great thing about the NBA is there's always another game. Is something, something happening right away. And as soon as one game ends, I mean, say we played last night and you know, we would, we'd be usually getting on an airplane. So that means for me taking the first bus so I can do a post game analysis or analysis of the game that we just played. Um, I chart every, I have done this since every year, every single play, whether, you know, the scoring action, the, the name of the play, how many times the ball changed sides of the floor, whether the ball touched the paint, whether it was a good shot or bad shot, and then there's a ranking on that. So I do every single play, every game and then I take a picture of that and send it to our video room so that they can create an edit of all of our plays and then to our analytics department so that they can break the certain actions like paint touches, our points per possession on a paint touch and so on. So that's immediately after the game, usually on a flight. Let's say we went from Atlanta to Toronto. I can get three quarters done. They get to the hotel room, that happens. And then I have to have that in by 1:30 in the morning so that the analytics and everybody can get their stuff done and then get as much sleep as I can. And then the next morning, you know, probably 9 o' clock meeting to go over that day schedule, recap last night. We'll meet usually a shoot around. Obviously sometimes we don't, we don't shoot around on back to backs, but we'll have a meeting or, or a walk through at the hotel and be done at noon, try to squeeze a nap in and then head over to the arena and get ready for the next game. So it's, it's nonstop, but it's, you know, it's like seven months a year, you know, you know, it's a grind. Tough part is like when the season ends, I can't get back to regular. Yeah. Life. I can't imagine it takes me a month, really. At least. Yeah. Because my body's just used to go, go, go something and I'm lost when I don't have a schedule or. You know, I always said if I wrote another book, I'd call, I'd call it what time's the bus? Because that's all we ever ask is what time's the bus? Whether it's supposed to shoot around, whether it's bus to game, airport, whatever. It's just, what time's a bus? Because that's all we care about is the next step towards where we're going. [00:06:54] Speaker B: A lot of coffee too, I'm guessing. [00:06:56] Speaker A: You know what? It's funny. I only drink coffee in the morning, but I'm so happy to be home because I got a Tim Hortons. [00:07:01] Speaker B: What's your order? [00:07:03] Speaker A: Just Tim Hortons with a large. Tim Hortons, two cream. That's it? Yeah. Okay. Nice. Gotta stay away from the sugar. Smart. [00:07:09] Speaker B: Just with the Sacramento Kings, how did Dallas become the next destination for you [00:07:13] Speaker A: enjoying Jason Kit Staff yeah, it's interesting. We thought we had something pretty good going in Sac. I mean, they hadn't been to the playoffs in 17 years and we get, we get to the playoffs. We had. They hadn't had 40 wins in 17 years. We had three 40 win seasons. And out of nowhere, they fired Mike. And then, you know, I stayed with Doug Christie for the rest of that year. And then he said he wanted to move towards. He wanted to move towards not having Mike Skies around. And I was like, I was a Mike guy at the same time. Doug was like, we both came in at the same time. But I, I loved working with Mike. So then obviously I'm a free agent, but I'm still getting paid by the Kings. So interviewed with, like, it's crazy. I, I'm. I'm at that stage where I can, if, if it all ended and somebody didn't want me. I had more offers last year than [00:08:07] Speaker B: walk off to the sunset. [00:08:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I had a chance to go with Mike to New York and I didn't do it because I'd already signed and had committed to Dallas and Dallas was like a place that I had always liked, a place that I always like. And then obviously the number one pick coming in and Kyrie and A.D. i'm going, okay, this is going to be fun. But, you know, it's the NBA and things change. [00:08:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I got to watch Cooper flag a few times now. Hoop Summit was the time like two years ago. I got to watch him closely. What's been the most impressive thing about him for you? [00:08:37] Speaker A: Probably, like, I look at him sometimes and I'm just. I can't believe how young he is. Like, I'm looking at him going, holy smokes. And how, how good a person he is as well. Like, he handles everything so easy and so smooth and he's just, he's got a, he's just got a great way about him. He's a great kid. He's just a great kid and a chance to be a great player. [00:09:00] Speaker B: Yeah, he's exciting. Ryan Nemhard, Canadian guy, Aurora, his own very own. Was just converted to a two year deal, I believe. What's it been like working with him? I know you have close ties to the family. [00:09:10] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I follow it obviously Andrew and, and his dad Claude was a guy that I recruited at Simon Fraser University. So what was the recruit recruitment pitch like? I think it was just more letters back then. We were like, things were so different back then. We, I wrote letters and typed out letters to him and see if you'd leave Toronto and come to Simon Fraser University. And you know, that was my thing in Tron when I was coaching at Simon Fraser was how many, how many Toronto kids could I, could I get? Because I knew the basketball area was such a hotbed and so good. But you know, we created a relationship then and then it's just fun to see his kids doing so well and just I'm real happy for Ryan and Ryan and Cooper have a great relationship. They're you know, kind of breaking into the NBA at the same time. They have to do all the rookie stuff together. So it's, it's just kind of fun to, to see those two kind of grow together and it's going to be fun to watch Ryan's journey and follows along a great line of Canadians that we have in the NBA now. [00:10:09] Speaker B: Were you shocked? Because I was at the draft combine following him and didn't get an invite to combine. Originally earned his way up and then also was going through like goes undrafted too. Yeah, like his story kind of like I feel like it's like obviously there's been this, I don't want to say stigma but like people are moving away from small guards, you know. But he comes into Dallas and he's like this. Yeah, you know, everyone's shocked, but I think people that watched him play in college watched him just the way he could get guys in the perfect position. Was it shocked? Was a shock for you? Was like, wow, this is a perfect opportunity for us. [00:10:42] Speaker A: No, I think there's a lot of things that go into the draft and not getting drafted and he could have got drafted. I mean, I think, you know, when it, when it gets to the second round and I'm not talking about him specifically, but when it gets to the second round sometimes it's better to not get drafted. And to be able to choose a team that might need a guy in your position. So I think it was really good for him where he landed, especially, you know, with Kyrie's injury. And then I'm not surprised. I mean, I watched him at Gonzaga and, you know, I know, I know I knew who he is and I know kind of cut from the same cloth. He's tougher than you think. He's got a, you know, he's not afraid to get into the body. The game is changing. It's becoming physical. He doesn't get knocked. Knocked off the ball. I also think that there's a spot for, you know, when he first got to Dallas, we. I brought him in, I showed him tapes of T.J. mcConnell and Colin Gillespie, and just like the undersized guards, there's a spot. You got to be disruptive, though, and you can't let teams go at you. You can't like, okay, we're going to switch and you get in the post and somebody. I say, yes. When you got six value, you hurt somebody down there and make them feel that if they're going to go down there, they're going to feel you. And he's been great. He's been, he's been fun to work with and sees the game really, really well. [00:12:08] Speaker B: Another guy I think you recruited was Steve Nash. Simon Frazier. What was the recruitment for him? Obviously, we know the, the legend that he became. Yeah, but what was that like trying to get him to Simon Frazier? [00:12:20] Speaker A: It was. It was like, you're in the province, you're coaching in the province. You recruit the best kid. So I went and I did. I was. So. I was young, young coach. I did everything. I went and watched him play soccer, I watched him play rugby, I watched him play basketball. And I would send him letters or call him all the time and, hey, just Simon Fraser. You know, Simon Fraser. We brought him over. He wasn't getting recruited in the States. He. He produced a bad video. Like, it was like, think of what you could do now. He. It was grainy vhs and it was like, could you. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Who. [00:12:56] Speaker A: Which one is he? Like, it was. It was that bad. And I always said that we, we had, that we have a. We've always had such a unique relationship because I took him back to the ferry after his visit to go back home, and there was a storm and the ferries were delayed. So I can't just leave a kid at the ferry terminal. So I was like. So we sat in the car and we just really talked. We just, like, it was like, good conversation. I said, so what's. What are you thinking? And he was like, yeah, I don't know. And I, he said, I. My goal, I want to play in the. I want to play in the Olympics. And I said, well, that's funny. I want to coach in the Olympics because I played in the Olympics and it was the best thing ever. And he goes, yeah. So we talked about the Olympics and we said we could. I said, I want to coach in the Olympics and you want to. You want to play in the. That's really cool. And then he was like, what should I do? Like, where should I go to school? And I said, listen, man, you got a chance to go to the States. You got to go, you got to play at the highest level. If it doesn't work out, come on back here and play it for me at Simon Fraser. Like, but. And I think that honest relationship, like, I, I mean, I'm supposed to recruit the kid and tell him to sell him and come to Simon Fraser. I'm telling him to go and see if you can, if you can do it. And obviously it was the right choice for him. And then in the 2000 Olympics, we walked into opening ceremonies with, you know, I had my arm around him and I just said, we said we were going to do this. Like, we spoke this into existence. You wanted to play. And I'm. Here we are. This is the. He said, it's the best thing ever. So anyways, it was pretty cool. [00:14:18] Speaker B: Did you think you'd both become the first two Canadians to coach the NBA head coach? [00:14:22] Speaker A: No, I didn't think he. I didn't think Steve would get into coaching. Yeah. [00:14:25] Speaker B: Was he just like. I'm not, I'm guessing. [00:14:26] Speaker A: I think, I think he just played for so long and played so well, and it was just like, okay, but I think every time that you're in the NBA, we all get there because we're competitive. I mean, players don't get there if you're not competitive, you don't get there as a player. There's. Everybody's fighting for a job, everybody looking for some. And I think once you're out of the league for a little bit or you're, you're out of a job for a while, that competitive, that compet the competing side, you never goes away. So I think that's where Steve was just like, well, I want to compete again. And he got back into it. So, yeah, never thought that would, that would happen. But I, you know what? We have, we have some great coaches in this country. And I don't, I don't, I honestly, I've been a, a proponent even when I was coaching the Raptors and everywhere the promoting Canadian coaches. And I think we're behind for the number of players that we have in the NBA. We should have more coaches. I think our, the Canadian coaches get overlooked sometimes. But, you know, Jama is a great coach. Scotty Morrison's a really good coach in Utah. I just, I hope the number keeps climbing for us. [00:15:34] Speaker B: Why do you think it hasn't? Is it just like. [00:15:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, I think the, the main reason is, like, it's who you know. And I don't think a lot of Canadians are known. Like, I, I, I have a relationship. Like, if Terry Stotts got a job, I know I would go there. Mike Brown gets a job. I know I'm going with Mike. Even Jason. I think we created a good one. So if he goes somewhere else, I'm going to go. So you kind of follow somebody that you have a good relationship with, and it's tough to get in initially and create that first. And then you have to, then you have to hope that your guy gets another job. And then, I don't know. So it's really tough. It's not easy to break in. And then when you do, you got to stay in. Yeah. [00:16:21] Speaker B: And it's so hard to stay in because now, like, think about it, coaches turnovers are so quick. What's that like for you, experiencing that? And then obviously we talked about the different spots you've been in. [00:16:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:33] Speaker B: Is it just like a, like, do you like, not have like a buy a house nowadays? Like, it's like, okay, I gotta rent. Like, what's that? [00:16:38] Speaker A: Well, I've learned, I've learned over the years, as soon as I buy, I get fired. [00:16:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:44] Speaker A: It's just the way it is. And then when I rent, I mean, I, I rented in Portland, I was like four years, man. I paid a lot of money in rent. I could have bought a house. Right? And it's just the way that goes. It's just like it jinx. You jinx it by buying something. But you know, it's funny too, because all the coaches, they laugh at me because everybody asks, what's your favorite place that you've been? [00:17:04] Speaker B: I was gonna ask that. [00:17:05] Speaker A: And I don't have one because I, like, I've loved everywhere and I've lived in a different, a different way everywhere, too. Like in Sacramento, I had a town home that was right beside the AAA baseball park where the Oakland A's move. I'm a big baseball guy. Jays fan mostly, but so I was. I had baseball right there. And I, I rented a. Like a townhome, which was really cool. In Portland, I lived in the Pearl area. [00:17:32] Speaker B: It's beautiful. [00:17:33] Speaker A: It's unbelievable. [00:17:34] Speaker B: It was raised too much, especially. Yeah. [00:17:37] Speaker A: Which is fine. I had my dogs there. And so it was. I was in like a one bedroom loft there, so that was pretty neat. In Charlotte, I bought a house on a lake on a one acre. I love that. And in Phoenix was nice because the weather was always nice. And I had like a walk outside and I go sunny every day. I have palm trees in the backyard and a swimming pool. So I. I don't know. You kind of adapt to everything. I'm in an apartment in Dallas, which is, you know, crazy because, you know, it's probably a fairly affordable city, but I, I've just kind of learned that you don't. There's no guarantees in this thing. And buying a house and selling and I move every four years. And that's. I've. I've kind of grown to accept that, you know, the, the shelf life in the NBA is shorter than that. But I'm. I think I'm averaging around four years. Every four years I'll find something else or move with another coach somewhere. So. Yeah, it's kind of a nomad style, but I like it. I mean, I meet new people. I created different. And I'm in the. I'm in the. Like. We just talked about the schedule. Everybody says, well, would you, Would you like a place like Memphis? I don't know because we're in the gym all the time. Anyway, what's. My first question is, what's the practice facility like? Like, do we have. Oh, can I go in there? We always call the executive workouts, too. We'll do steam in a hot tub, cold tub, lift weight. We're in there all day. Anyway, go home, go to bed. It don't matter what city you're in. It's not like you even leaving New York. New York's interesting. Nobody lives in Manhattan. They live out in White Plains near the practice facility. And it's a pain in the net to get to the, to get to the games. So anyways, it's. It's a great life. It's. It's fun. [00:19:09] Speaker B: What's your favorite part about it all? Is it just something that. [00:19:12] Speaker A: Like the games? [00:19:13] Speaker B: That gets. It's just the game. [00:19:14] Speaker A: I only do this for the compete, man. Yeah, no, I, I love the games. I'm, you know, even if we're, we're not just seeing players get better and seeing the players get. Develop trying new things, because even like, you know, now we're not, we're not winning games right now with all the injuries we've had. So we're trying new things to. Seeing if something will help us in the future. And so it's nice, it's. But I, if it was like I couldn't do TV and radio again, I mean, I did TV and radio for, for a little bit and I did front office in Toronto for the one year and I would, I'd, you know, you go to the games and you write up a report and then you go back to the hotel and you go, that's a great report. Good job. You pat yourself. No, I want to compete against you, man. I want to. And I want to be with you on the bus if you're. I'm. We said, what can we have done, man? They. Or that's a great win. Like, it's all about the game and compete. I still have that. Yeah. [00:20:08] Speaker B: What was that transition like for you from a player to a coach? Was it seamless? Was it like. Did you know you wanted to do it immediately? [00:20:14] Speaker A: No, I had no idea. No. I mean, I, I went back to Simon Fraser after playing in Europe to be an assistant coach while I got my teaching certificate because I was like, I've always, like, I thought. I always wanted to be a teacher. I thought, summer's off, two weeks of Christmas. Coach, coach a high school team, whatever. That's what I was going to do. And then started at Simon Fraser and they said, well, why don't you help us out while you're doing that? And then within two years, I climbed and the head coach said, I'm leaving, you should take over. And that. That was it. [00:20:47] Speaker B: So what was the pressure like, taking over? [00:20:51] Speaker A: I don't know. You don't. That is. I didn't think about. I was just like, this, this is fun. You know, I got recruited and Thomas Scurlak from Welland, Ontario got recruited. And then guys that were. When I was an assistant coach, Brett Quanz and those guys, they all were from Toronto. And I was like, I'm. I gotta go to Toronto. I gotta recruit out of Toronto. And I ended up. That was. I did, I did. I actually went to the office of finals and recruited three kids out of Sir Robert Borden in Ottawa. And they all came out and played with me and they all lived out there still. And Sean o' Brien And Steve Anderson and David Monroe. I just recruited all the. All Ontario kids because I knew. I mean for me it was great. Simon Fraser, it helped me. Back then we had grade 13 and that year gives you an extra year. So I was a little bit stronger. So I go in as a freshman at Simon Fraser, but I'm a year older than everybody else because. And I got to play basketball for an extra year and then that helped me and I stepped right into playing and playing well default the program still. [00:21:50] Speaker B: I think they tried to get out of D2 and try to get to use. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I think they're working on that now. I think this finance on that. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm. That university has like, obviously I loved it and my, my kid, my daughter went there and she swam there and everything. But I wish the athletic program was a little bit stronger. I was, I'm really upset. All my friends were football players because Simon Fraser was known as the factory. Like, it was like Sean Millington, everybody who played there, Robert Reed, although they were. They were all Ontario kids too. And they all went there and they were all like the. I think Simon Fraser for like five years in a row had the number one pick in the CFL draft. Like, it was just like. Because they played American schools, so the guys got better and they just kind of went in into the cfl. So all my friends were CFL players and football players when I went to school there, which was just great. You create that bond with everybody from back home going out there, going to school. We'd all get together. Like everybody else has families now we're all together. So we'd have Thanksgiving dinners and stuff like that. It was great. I had a great bond with the football team. So the fact that they cut football really hurt me and has changed a lot of people's feelings about the school. [00:23:01] Speaker B: Yeah, it's sad because just hearing the legacy of the school and what you guys did over there, moving over to time with the Raptors. Do you remember like the moment you found out, hey, you're now the new head coach of the Toronto Raptors? What was that moment like? [00:23:16] Speaker A: Do you remember where you were at [00:23:17] Speaker B: and what was going through your mind? [00:23:19] Speaker A: I remember because we were on the road. I think we played in Denver and Brian Colangelo and Mark Eversley, they, they called me and they said, hey, we're going to let Sam go. And. But Sam knew before because we were in our coaches meeting at 8 o' clock in the morning. He goes, I'm probably not going to coach tonight. He Was just like, Sam was. He was great. Sam was like one of my favorite guys to work for. He said, I'm probably not going to coach tonight because I think they're going to fire me. Just so you guys know. And if they. If they do, I don't want. He said, I know this business. I don't want anybody saying, oh, I'm going with you. I want. He said, it's going to be. I want one of you guys to take it. If they offer it to one of you. If they bring somebody else in, I want you to work for them. Don't ever give this league back their money. Like, don't quit. And I was like, oh, man. And then Mark Eversley called me, and Brian called me and said, you got to come downstairs for a minute. So I went down. They go, going to put you in charge on the interim basis. Here's what you want. You should get some thoughts together. You need to address the team at noon because they are already finding out about it. So to be honest, I didn't think, okay, I'm the first Canadian doing it. Or I didn't think, oh, I'm the head coach now. It's just like, okay, go Mode. Like, how. What are we going to do? We travel to Utah, we play the Jazz the next night, and it's going to be like, holy smokes, it's going to get crazy. And it was. And then. And then the season went. I think we won, like, 11 of our last 13 games or something. And then they were like. Brian was like, you need to get an agent. Because I said, I don't have an agent. I mean, I didn't think. I never needed an agent. And he go, no, you need to have one. He said, we can't talk about money and then still work together because you know you're going to think I ripped you off. You're going to feel like, whatever, so get an agent and we'll figure it out. So the next day, I hired a guy, just a guy that I knew, and I said, you be my agent. And then Brian, the next day said. He said, that's the last time I give you advice. Iron. I was never going to give you that much money. And I was like, okay, I'm glad I got my agent. So it was good. [00:25:22] Speaker B: I know you said you didn't think about, like, oh, being the first Canadian. [00:25:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:25] Speaker B: But have you had time to, like, sort of reflect on, like, what that meant? Because I think a lot of people looked at you and was like, he did it. I Could do it. [00:25:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I hope that's the case. I mean, I hope that's the case. And, you know, as we talked a little bit, I think that we need more Canadians in the game, in the NBA game. We're obviously doing something right with the players, so. And even agents. We got some good Canadian agents. Bernie Lee and Mike George do a great job, but we got, you know, we'll get more in there. Hopefully we pave the way to create that. [00:25:56] Speaker B: And [00:25:59] Speaker A: just. It remains to be seen, though, like I said, you got to. We got a bunch of young coaches in the system, so hopefully they get their break and find a way to do it. But, yeah, I don't think about. I think about it now that I'm older, like, yeah, first Canadian. That's pretty cool. But I don't even think of. I think of myself as a coach. Like, you know, I've worked with Mike Krzyevsky, I've worked with Mike Brown. I've worked with a lot of great coaches. Lenny Wilkins and. Yeah, I just think I'm a coach now. [00:26:25] Speaker B: Yeah. What was the transition like? Assistant to. Just a few seats over on the bench. Was it. Did you, like, wow, this is like, I guess you knew, like, what the heck. I was dealt with, but I probably [00:26:36] Speaker A: didn't know like, that. [00:26:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:39] Speaker A: When I got. When I went to Dallas this year, we had this thing where we, We. We sat around and they said, you know, talk about yourself a little bit. And I've said it openly. I do not want to be a head coach again. [00:26:51] Speaker B: Why? [00:26:52] Speaker A: Because it's not basketball. It's not. We're dealing. The head coach has to meet with the media three times a day. They got to meet with your agent and talk about this. They got to meet with the GM because what direction are we going? They got to meet with the analytics guy. Are we not playing the right way? We're not taking the right shots. It's. They got to meet with the parents. They got to meet with. It's not basketball. Like. And I was like. It hit me one time here in Toronto and I had to do an event and we go to. Or we go to New York City and we owe all our season ticket holders or our top 10 season ticket holders are coming, and the sponsors from this are coming. So we got to go to this dinner. I'm going. My coaches are going there. I want to be with my coaches and talk and watch games and. No, no, you got to do this. It's all like, shaking hands and doing all that. And then I got to do the media. There were times in Toronto I'd have to go to events and I'd go back to the arena and I'd go in and my coaches are packing up at like 7 o' clock at night and going, we're set for tomorrow. And I'm going to. Now I got to do basketball from 7 to 10 by myself in the. In the empty arena. And my coaches had been working all day and all night, and they got a plan, all set, and now they're. They got to go home. They got families. I'm like, so it's, I don't know, assistant coaching. I. I have one thing, like, you guys bugged me today. I have one thing to do, and that's get ready to play that game of basketball. And all I do is basketball. Like, I wake up in the morning, I do videotape. I got my guys that I show tape. I got the offensive thing. I got my charts. I. All I do all the time is basketball. Head coaching is not just. It's probably 20% basketball and 80% all this other stuff. I don't want to deal with that anymore. I'm at the point where I love the game. I love the game. I want to be part of the game. I don't. I don't need to be in charge. [00:28:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And the sad part too is you guys are probably the first to get blamed when it comes to, like, decisions or whatever it is. It's like, okay, let's look at the coach. What is the head coach doing wrong? But they don't know. Like, you mentioned all the behind the scenes. You have to deal with this, you deal with that, and it's like. And. But you just want to focus on the tactics. [00:28:49] Speaker A: Right? Right. And that. I think that's where I've looked like I've learned a lot as an assistant. How can I. And I think that's why I'm a valued assistant. I've been a head coach. I know it. I know what Jason Kidd is going through. I know that he'll walk into a meeting and go, I've had. I had to do this, this, and this and this. And he'll say to me, what we got for today? And he'll trust that I'm prepared and ready to go at the offensive end. And that's another thing that's really changed in the NBA is like, now, used to be an assistant, used to be an assistant coach. Now it's offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator. Some teams even have, like, the special teams. You got every Side out of bounds, every baseline out of bounds, offensively and defensively. And that's, that's a. I, I always did that too because I like that. I think it's a great way for a young coach. And if I gave you as a young coach, you got every side out of bounds and baseline out of bounds, offense and defensively, you're going to work, man. And, and that's how I started as Simon Fraser. They're trying to get me in coaching. I did that. I was like, oh, I had only. I wanted the ball to go to ban so bad. I wanted, I wanted the ball because now it was my play. And they go. The coach would look at me and I'd go, okay, fist go, you know, whatever. And I'd try to create my player. We're going to trap this like. So there was like 15 possessions of Sila and I lived for those 15. And I just like I. We won the game or, or we didn't win the game. Yeah. But we were like 9 for 10 on 15 outside out of bounds. So I'd get into that. But I think it's the games change that way too. And workout coaches like, and we have so many every team. Like I think what happened is in the NBA there's a, there's a salary cap on how much we can spend on players. There's not a budget on how much you can spend to help the players. So boom, you got a shooting coach and all their agents have the same thing. I feel bad for today's player because there's a lot of stuff that like they have so many people around them. Yeah. They got their workout guy. Well, they got a team workout guy. They got a shooting coach, they got a psychologist, they got a massage therapist and then team's got all that stuff from too. So it's how you, how do you sync all that is what I think helps organizations work best. [00:30:57] Speaker B: Yeah. You mentioned the side out of balance plays that you love. Is there a play that you kind of drew up that I don't know, led to a. Maybe a game winning shot or like a. Yeah. That you finally remember that like wow, that was a great set design. That was a great play that I called. [00:31:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you remember Sim Bular? Yeah. Okay. So this all happened because of Sim. I was coaching the national team and we were running a baseline out of bounds and the pass, we threw the ball in and it to Sim because he was taller than everybody and he caught it above the cylinder and dunked it from out of bounds and I Was. Everybody was like, that's goaltending. I said, well, is it? And then so we started thinking about, is it goaltending? Because a goaltending is only a shot that counts if it comes from out of bounds, it doesn't count. Wow. So I was. So I started playing with the rules, and then I started calling the NBA guys. I said, what happens if I shoot it from out of bounds? He goes, well, it doesn't count. I said, no, but a guy touches it, well, it's in the ring. And they were like, no, that's fine. Wow. So I always had that in my back pocket. And then when I was coaching In Phoenix, my 100th win in the NBA, there was 0.5 seconds to go, tie game. We had the ball half court, and I put Devin Booker and I put Tyson Chandler under the rim. And I said. And I had already told him. And because I walked through it in practice, go through every situation, every day in practice, I'd go through a situation that's going to happen in a game. And I said, here's what. And the players were like, no, no, that's goaltending. And I go, no, it's not. It's really, because it doesn't count. I explained it to them. So they hit a shot, tie the game with 0.5 to go. And I called timeout. And all the players, they came over. Try it. Let's try it. Let's try it. So I put. I said, devin Booker, take it up. But then they put Marcus all on him. He couldn't get over. So I changed. I put a taller guy and I said, throw it in the basket. So he throws it, and it's going right in the basket. And Tyson Chandler got it, caught it above the rim and dunked it. And J.B. bickerstaff was coached in Memphis. And he walks out of the car, he goes, that's gold tending. It's goaltending. And I'm going, no, that counts. That counts. I ran to the referee. That counts. It counted. We won the game on that shot. [00:33:13] Speaker B: Wow. [00:33:14] Speaker A: Yeah. It's crazy. So I. It was a. Was a rule that I kind of fell into because of sim and ended up, yeah. So if there's. People have said that, that's my play, that's my. How did you know that rule? And I was like, I've been in a gym for a long time. I've seen every type of situation and figured one out. [00:33:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I give you a lot of credit because everyone I speak to, whether it's in the league coaches coming up, like, in the ecosystem, they talk about how much help you've been towards them. And I remember being in Vegas, that get together you had for always, every year, for all the coaches, all the players, Canadian basketball. What makes you, like, want to, like, give that knowledge? Because you could be like, you know, I'm in the NBA 24 years. Like, I'm tired. Like, I'm guessing you get a dozen people always reaching out to you, but you always take the time. Why is it so important for you? [00:34:06] Speaker A: Because had it not happened to me, I would have never been where I am. And it was just. It was just a. Coaches, like, I think coaches have a little bit of a fraternity, and there's young people that are aspiring to do it. And when I was in Vancouver with the Grizzlies, I started. I was doing, like, community relations and TV and stuff like that. And all the coaches there were like, hey, if you're a basketball coach, you're coaching. You can come in my meetings. You can come in this. I was like, really? Like, I thought, oh, and some coaches won't let that happen, but these guys are. And I got to go in. And then they'd be like. And then it got to the point where, hey, we're going. Coaching staff's going up for dinner. Do you want to come with us? And we'd talk basketball and ideas and stuff like that, and I got included in that. So I think from that point on, I'm going to help anybody that I can. I want to grow the game, like you said. I'm. I want to be. I'll be. I'm proud when more Canadians get into this. You know, I'm. I'm. I'm good friends with Jama. I. Jama was like. When I was in Toronto, like, I don't think people know this. He was doing community relations around basketball camps. Yeah, I was. I. I would. They were flying me in, And Jama had 500 kids in a gym, and he had them, like, all lined up and doing all the right stuff. And I was like, dude, you got to get out of community relations, man. And he goes, well, how do. How do you do that? I said, I got you. So I. I talked to his boss at mls. I said, I need. I need him for his lunch hour. And. And I said, and I need. And then I said to Jim, I need you to come back at night. He. And I said, you. Here's the two things you need. You need to have a relationship with players. So the one hour for your Lunch, you take it one hour before we start practice, whatever time that is. And you got a guy on the floor. I'm going to give you a guy. You work him out. Learn how to work out an NBA guy because that's key to being in the league. And then at night you're going to come back and you're going to break down an NBA game, learn how to do the video, learn how to do all that stuff there. So I, I said if you, if you give me one hour there and you give up an hour at night, you, you're going to be set. Because I saw it in him, his organization, his speaking skills, the way he ran a, a gym of 500 people. He can, he can teach in the NBA. And that's how it started for him. I just got and said, give me an hour at lunch. You give up an hour at night, you're going to be set. And now look at him. [00:36:21] Speaker B: And he has his own like, little like people that he helps too, that I know. Like people. Coming up, all the young coaches. Two time NBA champion now like with the Raptors. So shout out to jam. Like he's been doing a lot of stuff. [00:36:32] Speaker A: Yeah, he's, it's the same though. We always, like he's going to give back too because somebody gave him a chance. We all, somebody gave us a chance. We want to give somebody else a chance. It's the game. It, it comes back around. Yeah. Right. Yeah. [00:36:46] Speaker B: You're the head coach of the national team 2 since 1998-04 and 2012-2019. What was different about those times? Like, because I'm guessing that's two different eras. [00:36:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:57] Speaker B: Two different players. Like all like in terms of like groups. Like what was, what made you want to do it again too? [00:37:06] Speaker A: Steve, like after the first, after the first stint. The Olympics was, was great. We only had two NBA guys, but we, we, it was, it was strategy. And all the, the world was all. At that point, Russia was Russia. It wasn't broken up into all these other countries. And Serbia was Yugoslavia and Croatia all together. So it was, that was, that all changed with the competition level. But we, we hit, we hit stride. And that's what, I'll be honest, that us going 5 and 2 at the Sydney Olympics. People thought I could coach. And that's how I, how my career kind of started. When you're on the world stage like that and things go that well. So the second time I came back because Steve was the GM and Steve said I'm only going to come Back at the gm, if you come back and coach. And I said, well, I said we got some, I said there's some, a little bit of bad, bad blood, you know, because if they fire me, you know, and anytime somebody fires you, I don't care what you're. I'm competitive. Right. We, we always talk about they fired me. I said, so I, he said, no, I'm, I'm going to come back and be the gym, but only if you come back and be the head coach again. And I was like, okay. So that's what, that's, that's the reason I did it. [00:38:19] Speaker B: What were like some of the biggest challenges, like maybe early on like building like competitive teams. Like when it comes to like, like the pool wasn't as deep as, as it is now. [00:38:27] Speaker A: Right, right. I think, I think most of the, most of the Canadian players at the time were role players. And trying to figure out how to build a team with a bunch of role players. It's, it's tough to ask Dwight Powell, who's playing in the NBA and scoring five points a game to go score 20. Like I, you, you're either built to score 20 or you're built to be that guy. So all these young NBA guys, that was my whole thing was make them love the fact that they represent their country so that the next generation will want to do it as well. And I think when the United States had their best finally decide to play, it was eye opening for Canadians to do. It still was a challenge to get guys because the summer is when they want to get better and work on their game. And I, between the stints that I did with Canada, I worked with the United States and Coach K and won a world gold medal at the world championships. And I said, I'm going to run the program the way that they do it, which is one practice. And in that practice we're going to do all our stuff at night between 5 and 7. So I went to Tristan and I said, hey, you can play for the national team. I had to go to the Cavaliers. I said, here's what we're going to do. We're going to practice, bring a coach with him because the teams were doing that. [00:39:48] Speaker B: So you started that. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:49] Speaker B: I said, that's great. [00:39:50] Speaker A: Bring a coach with him. So but here's the, the first summer that I did that, it was Jamal Mosley. So now he's a head coach in the NBA. Jamal comes at between 5 and 7. You could do your individual workout. Phil Handy. Steve brought Phil Handy, who's Working with us with the Mavericks now and work was with, with the Raptors. Taylor Jenkins was a G league guy, came with Corey Joseph. So all these coaches come, came into the gym and then our evening workouts were like, holy, we got seven NBA coaches coaching these different kids. And then we were like, what if we brought all the young kids in too? So Shay and those guys come in and then Nash is out there with the parachute on his back. My, my GM at the time in Portland, Neil o' Shea said, hey, I'm watching all this. He goes, I gave you the time to come back there. We're Gonna, we want CJ McConnell to come back there and work out with you guys. I was like, well, he's not Canadian. They go, so he can still be part. So now I've got my GM saying, oh, all those coaches in the gym. So now CJ McConnell comes back to Toronto for the summer and works out with our Canadian national team, only in the individual stuff. So. But my whole thing was how do we build a relationship with the NBA teams so that they feel comfortable letting us have Tristan Thompson, knowing that we're not screwing him up, knowing that we're not taking away from his development. So Jamal was there to hands on and turned out to be, you know, fantastic. [00:41:13] Speaker B: Was it easy like getting teams. I made teams on board. [00:41:15] Speaker A: Yeah. As soon as you say, and then obviously guys, city of Toronto is very well respected around the league by players, by everybody. So I wanted them to have a, the same respect for the Canadian national team and me that I, I trust you're going to bring your guy. And they were always like, yeah, as long we can bring a guy. I say, as long as I can throw a couple young kids in with the workout, even if it's to play defense against them, we're gonna do it. [00:41:42] Speaker B: Yeah. The nightlife here, especially undefeated. But I was gonna ask you too. When it comes to. I know you talked about to just now. It might be harder. I feel like some people look at it. Oh like you were so passionate. They talked about, I want to coach the Olympics one day. Yeah. Do you feel that sense of like. Because you, you talk to NBA guys, Canadian NBA guys. Do you feel like that's like the end goal for guys nowadays or like what's that? Because they juggle so much now. Right. Like I'm looking at. [00:42:11] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [00:42:11] Speaker B: A guy like Shay, he might play in the finals this year again, right? [00:42:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:15] Speaker B: But he has to go through all the way until the end of the season. Say this, say it's An Olympic year, right. And it's 2020. He just ends off the season. Or Jamal Murray, for example. Right. Like, he was going through that whole finals run, and then he gets to a point where it's like, now, like, he's dealing. Might be dealing with injuries, might be dealing with, you know, like, what's that sentiment? Like, when you're talking to players and it's like, I'm guessing you also understand it's like you just went through this grueling season. Like, but there's always a sentiment, I feel like, from maybe supporters of the national team, it's like, damn, I wish this person was dedicated. What's your take on that? Because I'm guessing, you know the behind the scenes to, like. I know. Like, you guys don't know the full picture of, like, what this person's really dealing with. [00:42:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I think for me, the biggest thing was get them in one time and have it be the best experience of their life. And I think, you know, even just with the Olympics now, right now and the hockey, the way that it happened, the four nations and the Olympics, America versus Canada, was like, a big thing. And I think that's the drive. It's that, like, you're right. They play all year now. I got to take care of this leg because if I stay on it all summer, I. I can't play. I won't be as good next year. Next year's a contract year. I got my family. I'm away all year. Like, it's 100% commitment. But I think if you do it and you love the compete, that's like, I kept saying, like, even that hockey, as soon as that hockey thing happened with the gold medal, you saw the Americans. Kevin Durant said, I want to play in the Olympics again. Because he saw what it was like, and that's the drive that we needed our players to have. My biggest thing is if you don't have that and I have to convince you to come and play, like, I've learned this when I coach the national. If I have to convince you to come and play, I don't want you. It's got to be like, that burning desire that you want to be there more than anything else. And I think. I think we have that. I think there's enough guys now. But if I have to beg you to play, it's not going to work, man. [00:44:11] Speaker B: It's not worth it. It's not worth it. When Canada qualified for Olympics, I was thinking of, like, guys that paved the way. Guys, you know, especially you like the groundwork you did, like, I don't think people realize the groundwork you did to get Canada back to this place. You know, years of dedication. Where were you when Canada got back to Olympics? What was that feeling like for you, watching it? Because I'm guessing you're like, I'm not part of anymore, but like, I'm immensely so proud because I know what this means for the country. [00:44:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I was on. I was on the couch on my couch in Sacramento watching. We were doing off season workouts. I have a lot of respect for Jordyn. Jordy was, he was, he's. He's the, he was the first guy that really tried to bring me back in. Really? Yeah, yeah. He tried to get me like, he brought me into Toronto for training camp and stuff like that because we had a good relationship. He was a defensive coordinator in Sacramento. I was the offensive coordinator. So we got along. He was like, you got to come back, you know, so he, Jordy was a guy who kind of reconnected me with the program after years that I had been away from the program. So, you know, Michael, Michael Bartlett too, like the, the just real class and. But I was so proud just because I remember sitting there and I was like. I had tears in my eyes. I was happy because it, it's way too long that we hadn't been there. And you know, I was part of the two previous times, once as a player and once as a coach. So it was fun to be see us back on the stage. [00:45:36] Speaker B: Why didn't you join, though, if you mind? [00:45:39] Speaker A: No, I didn't. I was, I didn't want to join. Yeah, no, I, Yeah, like, I, I did my time. Jordy, you know, he needs to build his staff and you know, I, I think one of the things the NBA is now is. And it's like, I don't. I, like we talked before, you know, I don't get back here very often. I, you know, I got to plan a trip because there's off season workouts, there's retreats in now, there's draft workouts. 12 years. [00:46:03] Speaker B: 12, 12 months job. [00:46:04] Speaker A: It's, it's, it's full. And, and, and you know, there was a time when I was doing 82 NBA games and then a full summer of national team stuff for 12 years or even longer because I did the US team. Yep. Those other years and I mean, I remember being in Vegas for summer league and then the US Training camp for six weeks. I was like in Vegas for like eight weeks in the summertime and all basketball, all the time. [00:46:29] Speaker B: And Vegas is a terrible, like if, you know. Vegas. [00:46:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Too high. Yeah. So I mean, it got to the point where I needed a little bit of a break. But at the same time, you know, I still have that drive. I still have that drive to. You know, I would have liked one more Olympics. I would have liked one more just because I figured the Olympics have five rings and I would have been on three Olympic teams as a player, one as a coach. One more as a coach would have been. Or an assistant coach would have been. Would have been fun. [00:46:56] Speaker B: Would you ever come back? Would you ever, like, if they called you and be like, hey, Jay. [00:47:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it, it would, it would depend on who, who was asking. Like, that's why I came back the first time. And, and you know, I've had other countries reach out as well, you know, don't do that. Yeah, I know. [00:47:11] Speaker B: I'll look at you sideways. [00:47:13] Speaker A: Well, I did the US Thing and that was pretty fun. Yeah. Okay. Like, how can you not though? [00:47:16] Speaker B: Like, if you do the U.S. i don't blame you. [00:47:18] Speaker A: I mean, I was like, Canada fired me. Like. Yeah. And then US Said, hey, we want somebody. We want somebody who knows the international game, who's been there. You did it as a player and as a coach. Can you come and help me? This Coach K asked me. I'm gon know, like, come on. [00:47:31] Speaker B: Can't say no, Coach kids. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Geez. That was like that. And that was like crazy experience. Like, the stuff that he did was like, I had like, I didn't know him. I didn't. And I, I was not a dookie. Like, I don't, I don't. But after that summer, I was 100 convinced. [00:47:46] Speaker B: Yeah, he's watching the Olympics. What was your, like 20, 24 like, they had a good opening group stage and then obviously France lack of size kind of played an issue. Like, what was your like, thoughts on like, I don't know, the Olympics run and like, maybe like, hey, this is what, maybe this is what Canada needs. Or like, I know you're probably just thinking also tactics. You're like, this is what. [00:48:08] Speaker A: You know, I was, I was thinking the same thing. Can't happen again that happened in 2000 with like, we win our pool, we beat Yugoslavia. We beat, we crushed Spain. We, we beat Yugoslavia, we play France, we're number one in our pool. Play number four. Don't look at numbers. And then it was the same thing. What we have to remember is the two week period that the Olympics happen. It's not going to be smooth sailing. There's going to be ups and downs. And France wasn't very good early and then they peaked at the right time. We were good early and then did it create an overconfidence? Did it create whatever. Hey, that's why we play the games and 40 minute games. That's why the NCAA is fun to watch. March Madison. Because the game is shorter. And when we play a shorter game, there's less possessions, there's less probability. We talk about the analytics, there's less probability that the cream rises to the top. So NBA, NBA is predictable. The games are so long, the seasons are so long, the best teams get it, get there. But march Bad is 40 minute game. Anything can happen. Same thing in the Olympics. It's a 40 minute game, there's less possessions, and you've got different referees from different countries. And like in 2000, they called the game completely different in the quarterfinals than they did earlier. You got to be able to play through all that. And I just, the whole time I was thinking the same thing, can't happen again. And France just kept sticking around, sticking around. And I'm, I just, I had that feeling in my stomach from, what was it, 24 years earlier? This, this can't happen. This can't happen. Yeah. [00:49:48] Speaker B: So what's your expectations for, for 2028? Because I feel like a lot of people are looking at like, hey, metal or bust, you know, sort of like. But also people don't realize how hard FIBA is. But what's your expectations? Like, this is. She's gonna likely be at his peak right at this time. And it's gonna be. You have the talent around there. I don't know if you go with all 12 NBA guys because, you know, but mixing some, some overseas guys, mixing. I don't know who's been playing well. Kyle Wilcher. Yeah, he's been, he's been with the qualifiers. Like, what are your expectations? And like, how would you go about like, yeah, forming a roster where it's like, because everyone just expects, let's get the best 12 NBA guys. But that is, that's not how it works. [00:50:27] Speaker A: No, you can't do that. You can't. Like, I learned that a long time ago. And that's one of the things that you take as a coach. And they're going to, you're going to kill me. You're going to, how can this guy not be on the team? And you just go, we can't. We need a guy who, only, who maybe doesn't play in the NBA. Knows the international game and knows how to defend at the international level. That the NBA is a little bit different. You can, you know, hit guys a little bit, and you gotta. You gotta pick a guy who, hey, he's a star in the NBA. And now you're gonna sit on a bench for a week, and you're gonna listen to your agent and everybody back home saying, you're getting screwed. You're getting screwed. Well, I'm playing behind Shai. No. Yeah, man. You. They need to. She had a bad game. They need to put you in, like, it's going to, like. You have to build a team. Not the best players. I learned that a long time ago. And I didn't take the. I didn't take the 12 best players to the Sydney Olympics. I took a mixture of guys that I knew 11 and 12. Like when I. When I first made the national team, Jack Donahue, it was completely honest with me. He goes, I'll tell you what, you didn't make the national team because you were in the top 12 players. I'm just. Just be honest. I said, really? And I was deflated. And he. He said, no, you made it because you work so frigging hard. You know you're never going to play, right? But if you work that hard every day in practice while we're traveling around the world, you're going to make the guys in front of you so much better and prepare for the games. And I was, like, heartbroken, but I knew what my role was, so every day in practice, I had to bust. I would rebound for guys. I did all that crappy stuff until a couple of guys got hurt, and I had a couple of years under my belt. Then I started playing and taking over. You need to have those guys. You need to have role players. You need to have guys that are willing to sit. The thing that scares me the most about our chances is the world is big, and Zach's had injuries. Who's next? [00:52:20] Speaker B: Yep, big man. That's my biggest issue. [00:52:23] Speaker A: So we put all these guards around Shay, but then are we going to do with the other end when they just go inside, inside, inside? So I'm. I'm a little, like, I would say met or bus now. There's too much. There's too much stuff that has. That goes on around the game. I think we. We have great players and we'll be very prepared, but I just don't know if we have the right. The right build. You. You take the United States, they're going to have bigs. They're going to have bigs that. Can we handle them? France is going to have bigs. Can we handle. [00:52:55] Speaker B: How can we handle Victor? [00:52:56] Speaker A: Women. Yamo. Right. Who guards him if Canada's playing France today? Who guards Victor? [00:53:02] Speaker B: That's a good question. I don't know. [00:53:04] Speaker A: Right. We get. We NBA teams are having a hard time with this. [00:53:07] Speaker B: Yep. [00:53:08] Speaker A: So yeah, no, I. It's. It's you. You said it. It's not easy. And of course the expectations are. Well, we got. We have the second most Canadians in the league. Canadians in the NBA, we should be the second. [00:53:24] Speaker B: That's always a sentiment. [00:53:26] Speaker A: Five guys on the floor don't matter. And if France, the guy who stopped us in the semifinals in 2000, played only in the game against Canada. I don't know if people know that he didn't play in the round robin. He was a defender and he guarded Nash full court and that's the only game that he played. And he took Steve out of his game. So that guy wasn't one of the top 15 players in France, but he was. Had a specialty and that's what he did. And that's how you win. You got to have different ways to win games. [00:53:58] Speaker B: You mentioned it to a lot of guys. Like, there's a lot of personalities. Right. How do you manage that when it's like now you have. I don't want to say like there's ego, but like there's guys that think, you know, like, like I feel like when you get to get to the NBA, you have to have like, I'm better than everybody, for sure. Mindset. [00:54:15] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. [00:54:16] Speaker B: So how do you manage that? Those personalities where it's like, it's not envious, but it's also like not like it's cohesion in a way, because it's so tough. [00:54:25] Speaker A: I think that's the challenge for, for coaches, I think at every level. I mean, we always say, you know, it's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmies and Joes. Like, you got this connection of players getting them to buy in, getting them to say, I'm okay. Like I'm okay being a third line guy, I'm okay being this guy's backup. I always tried to tie it into baseball. You know, you're sitting there in the bullpen, am I going to get called today? Am I going to get called today? And if I do and we're, we're down, I got to go in gunning. If I get called in and we're up, I got to Go in and just keep things going the way that they're going to. I got. Or I got to change the game. I think the whole thing is all about team building and the communication between selling. Listen, if you and I are on the same Olympic team and we're playing, I'm not getting a medal unless you get one. So selling the fact that there's like, if we run 100 meters, you might get one and I might not. But if we're going to as a basketball team, we're either all getting one or none of us are getting one. And what are we willing to sacrifice now? If I'm there for numbers, if I'm there for a contract, if I'm there to promote my game, to promote my brand, that's when you're going to have problems. Yeah. Yeah. [00:55:47] Speaker B: Last few questions before I let you go. I know you're busy. When you look at the current group of, like, Canadian players now, how special is this era, you think, in Canadian basketball for the national program? When you just look at, like, the potential, like, how special is this, like, the wave of talent that's been coming? [00:56:06] Speaker A: It's, it's, it's, it's, it's incredible. It really is. And I say that, living pretty much full time in the States now only because the other NBA coaches bring it up all the time. And I'm always like, hey, Dylan Brooks, another Canadian. Boom. This guy. Oh, another Canadian. I didn't know he was Canadian. That's what they say that all the time. Because I'm, I'm promoting our guys every time. I. And I think it's just, it's phenomenal that we have, as a country have been able to do this. We are on the map. And I just think it'd be amazing to just cap it all off, you know, the US Beat us in hockey. I. As soon as that happened, I just. All I could think of was, we're going to beat them in basketball. And that's going to be like the complete flip, like them beating us in hockey. That's why we play the games, right? Our goal. Hey, we outplay them. We were better. Americans are better. Even with all our best players, they got better. But we'll find a way. And then it'll be just complete reversal of everything. It would just be the best thing ever, basketball is. [00:57:14] Speaker B: Or a powerhouse country. That would be cool just like, because they look at hockey's can of sport, but take that away from them and [00:57:20] Speaker A: the rest of the Americans and the rest of the world know. They know how good we are from. Because of the way our players carry themselves around the NBA right now. Yeah. [00:57:28] Speaker B: For you, though, like, leaving in 2019, was that hard? Because I know you've called it, like, it's the greatest coaching. [00:57:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:35] Speaker B: Like, it's the greatest experience as a coach you've gotten. Was that difficult for you, leaving 2019? [00:57:38] Speaker A: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, anytime, you know, you know, I love that. I always said, like, coaching the NBA is my profession. Coaching the national team was my passion. I mean, it's, it's. And that's the way it has to be for the players. There's no extra money for it. You only do it for love of the game, love of your country. And that's how I started. That's, that's, that's what I, who, who and what I was when I was on the national team. I, I, I'm. People don't believe me. I, I was on the national team before the Olympics. I was making $165 a month. That's a. I, if we were teammates, we were going. I was going, hey, I got a box of macaroni and cheese. Do you, you buy the can of tuna. We mix it all together. We have a real meal. That's how we lived for the longest time. So I'm used to no money and passion and love of the game, and it's got to be that way. I know the game and everything has changed, but you can have all the money in the world, but you can have a gold medal. It's pretty cool. Yeah. [00:58:37] Speaker B: No better person to ask this final question to. I don't know if you're a bit biased, though, but who's the greatest Kane basketball player of all time? Is it Steve Nash or has Shea Gilgeous Alexander taken that mantle? [00:58:52] Speaker A: I think, I think Shai has taken now just because of the way he plays. But Nash is the reason that Shay is the best now. Because Vince Carter and the Toronto Raptors showed us all a new game that we could all go play in the backyard and we could all have fun playing. Steve Nash showed us that it's possible for a Canadian to be the best at this game. So the people who now grew up with hockey or with basketball in the backyard on TV every night. I mean, there was a time when I was. We didn't have tv, we didn't have basketball on tv. I watched the NBA games a day later because they wouldn't even show NBA games prime time. We all grew up with Vince Carter and going highlights. And if it wasn't for the highlights. Do we still have the number of people watching? So he created an attraction and then Steve Nash showed us that a Canadian. Hang on. A six foot one white kid from Victoria, not a Toronto kid. And I'm biased to the Toronto kids. I recruited all the Toronto kids. He can become the best player in the game. Oh, what, what happens with, what happens now with the young players? So I think Shay's got, I think Shay right now because the game has more better players than they did when Steve played and he's the best of the best. But again I, again, it's not fair to different errors. Yeah. To compare eras. [01:00:21] Speaker B: Yeah. J Train, I can't thank you enough for coming on on the show. Joining us in studio pioneer, legend. I don't know how Many words of 20 words to describe you but I can't thank you enough. Especially what you do for, for a lot of players, a lot of coaches coming up and just paving the way. So I can't thank you enough and appreciate you joining the podcast. [01:00:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Honored to be here. Thank you. [01:00:44] Speaker B: This is K Basketball show your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. My guy J Triano and we out.