Picking our dream Canadian Olympic roster for LA 2028

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:03] Speaker B: Welcome to the Canadian Basketball show, your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. I'm your host, Lee Ben Osman. I'm joined by a guy who's currently on a world tour promoting his new book. It's called the Golden Generation. How Canada Became a Basketball Powerhouse. As he dives deep into how the Canadian men's basketball team, or just basketball in general in Canada, went from underdog status to a global force. From Steve Nash to shake Gilgis Alexander, he traces the story behind Canada's basketball evolution and he's here to join me to go through his book. This might be a. We're gonna go deep. We're gonna deep dive into this. Orin Weisfield, writer at large. Welcome back to the Canadian Basketball Show. How you doing, man? [00:00:49] Speaker A: Thanks for having me. It's. It's a GTA wide tour. This is the furthest south I've been, you know, on the esplanade. [00:00:55] Speaker B: So welcome downtown. My guy. My. What's it been like finishing the book? The entire process took you almost, what, like two years now. Having it out in the world for. [00:01:05] Speaker A: People to read feels really good. I mean, you were at the launch party and that was like a super cool full circle moment for me, just being able to see all my friends, all the people that supported me throughout the process and a bunch of fans there too, who are interested in the subject and just like be able to finally see physical copies of it out in the world. I mean, when you write a book, like, you finish it maybe six months ago and it takes a long time, just like print. So you're just sitting there waiting. There's nothing to do. You're just waiting. And yeah, it feels super great to have it out in the world. And now people are starting to read it. I'm starting to get some feedback and, and that's what I look forward to. [00:01:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it's good to see. I haven't seen like two years. I feel like since you started writing this book, you've been ghost. You've been grinding, doing your thing. For those listening, we're gonna go through Oren's new book and then we're going to draft. I don't know if draft is the right word, but select our dream 2028 Canadian Basketball Olympic roster, assuming obviously that Canada gets there. It's an idea that I'm stealing from a popular podcaster, basketball podcaster Zach Lowe. He did something similar with Bill Simmons, but for obviously the USA team. And I thought, why not do the same thing for Canada? Basketball winter windows about to set up soon. Obviously you were years away from that, but it's going to creep up on us like very quickly. We're not going to realize it. We're going to get there quick. We'll go through some basic rules when we get to the, to the draft, the selection process. But yeah, excited for that, for that draft because I got some names that I'm hoping might play for 2020 Olympics. And just going through the list of guys that I was like thinking through, I feel bad. I feel bad because it's going to be a tough choice for Warren Barrett and company to come up with the names. But before we get there, obviously your book world tour. Like I said, CP24 appearance, man, big time. Tell me about that. What was that? Like every podcast imagine, I feel like you've been on. Where else? [00:02:56] Speaker A: It was cool. I drove out to Scarborough, you know, did five minutes, drove back home. But it was worth it. [00:03:01] Speaker B: Oh yeah, they changed studios. [00:03:03] Speaker A: Yeah. No, it's been, been a lot of podcasts to be honest. A lot of, a lot of written stuff is starting to come out too. So. Yeah, I mean it's, it's mostly like the connections that I have just from like going to Raptors games and like meeting all these people in the media. So I'm super lucky to have people that work for websites or have podcasts and stuff and give me the platform to, to go on and talk about the book. So, so far so good. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm excited to have you on because I feel like reading through the book. I'm finished through most of it. I got some, I feel like hard hitting questions about the book always do. [00:03:36] Speaker A: It's like K basketball makes the show so good. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Thank you, man. But like certain stuff that you mentioned in the book, stuff that I've heard, stuff that you, you dive deep into that I'm like very curious to maybe learn more about, but take us through the whole process. When did the idea was like, I want to write a book on the Canadian basketball and like just the golden generation. When did the idea pop up? When did the name pop up? That's a good name. Obviously everyone calls it a golden generation. [00:04:00] Speaker A: It's going to be a long answer. But like it goes back to like I started covering The Raptors in 2018 and I was going to games and covering the NBA and I was like, this is cool, but like, I want to do something a little more niche, a little that sets me apart a bit more. And like, I think you saw the same thing, like Each year there was more and more Canadians coming in the league, playing their way up into the like all NBA All Star conversations. So I was like shifted my focus a bit towards covering Canadians. And then like one thing I've been thinking about recently, which is random, but like you'll find funny is like when the Raptors drafted Delano Banton in 2021, it was like this kid from Rexdale, six nine point guard, ton of upside. Nobody knew about him. Like I know you did, like the first profile for him at the Stars. Like everyone rushed to profile him once the Raptors drafted him. But I'm like, how did this Rexdale kid go unnoticed all the way until he got to the NBA? Despite the fact that he was a bio steel all Canadian, despite the fact he played at Central Commerce? Like, how did nobody write about him? How did nobody shed some light on him? So that was definitely a moment where I was like, okay, we gotta shine a spotlight on, on like the guys and girls who are coming up before they go pro. So I started doing that more with like Sportsnet and Yahoo. And then the 2021 Olympic qualifying tournament in Victoria, BC. I got to go out there for Raptors Republic and you know, watch them lose to the Czech Republic. But at the same time it was like an eye opening moment for me to just see what international basketball was like, to see the passion behind the players and the fans. And I knew that if that team ever achieved their goal and got back to the Olympics after so many decades, you know, that would be a really cool story to learn. Like, how did this happen? How did we finally get back to the Olympics after 24 years? And why did it take so long? And that's something that was kind of like the driving question behind the books. Like with Canada basketball, why did it take so long? And. And who were the people that finally got them over the edge? As I started actually reporting on the book and researching it and doing all this stuff, I realized that like sticking to just Canada basketball would be kind of doing a disservice to like the people who really built up basketball in this country, which was in the GR grassroots level, which was people you've had on this podcast, like, who often did things in spite of the government, in spite of corporations that weren't willing to give them money. And I wanted to shed a light on like those people. So that's why the book ended up going back and forth between the grassroots Canada basketball and the players who are. [00:06:29] Speaker B: Some of your favorite, maybe interviews Ro. [00:06:33] Speaker A: Russell, who you had on the pod was great. Steve Nash, Rowan Barrett, a lot of the NBA guys who are playing now. Like, Andrew Wiggins was honest with me, and I appreciated that. And, like, Andrew Nemhardt, Dylan Brooks, all these guys. Yeah, it's hard to pick one. Like, the. The most interesting thing would be, like, I remember one day I drove from, like, one part of Toronto to another and did two different interviews. One with someone in Canada, basketball, and one with someone who was not in it. And you get these, like, completely different opinions about something that happened and, like, two different opinions about the same thing. And, like, that was very alarming for me at times where it's like, how do I square that? Like, how do I try to put as many, like, voices in the book to represent as many people as possible, but at the same time, like, who's being honest here and who's not? And, like, having to constantly work through those things and talk to more people and, yeah, that was. That was interesting to me. Like, when you would just hear two completely different opinions about the same thing, and it ended up being a lot of work because then you have to, like, do your due diligence and figure out who's right, who's wrong, and talk to more and more people. [00:07:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. If you talk to a lot of people. I feel like within Basketball in Canada, like, there's just so many viewpoints on certain things. Right. What you get into in your book? Just about. So I think it's very interesting. Just like the people you include in the book. I feel like Roy Russell was. We also have on the podcast, this is stuff that he did early on. Steve Nash was very interesting. Just, like, I feel like he's kind of now back in the media game. He's doing his thing now. Love to see it. What was something that you found, like, fascinating just about, like, maybe chatting with him and his journey and kind of create Santa Clara. This had Elijah Mahy, who's there right now at Santa Clara, going there. But what was something that you found fascinating about Steve Nash writing the book? [00:08:30] Speaker A: I guess, like, two things come to mind. One was, like, you always hear, you know, like, in the circles you're in and the circles I am, like, there's a lot of, like, chatter. There's a lot of rumors, and there's always people guessing. Why didn't Steve Nash play longer? Why didn't Jamal McGlore play? Why didn't Andrew Wiggins play more for their country? And I really wanted to just go to these people and say, like, why didn't you play. And so for Steve Nash, it was good to just be like, ask him that question. He said, basically, getting to the Olympics was my goal. After we did that in 2000, I wanted to focus on my NBA career and see how far I could go. And for a six two guy who wasn't very big, who was skinny, who was getting pushed around in the NBA, like, it was hard. And that's what he wanted to dedicate himself to full time. So I just respected, like, those people for giving me honest answers. The other thing I wanted to ask Steve was as like a white guy growing up in Victoria during a time when the national team was going through these controversies in the 1990s that we'll get into. I wanted to ask him what that was like to have the national team was basically being built around him and in his image as he was kind of ascending up the basketball ranks. And at the same time, there was all this controversy. There was all these black people talking about how the national team wasn't fair, they weren't giving them a fair chance, especially people in Toronto, and how there was racial bias in it. And so I wanted to know, like, what was that for him growing up and living through that too? [00:09:59] Speaker B: You talked about racism within Canada Basketball's organization. How much did you know about that before you started writing about the book, and how much did it shock you? [00:10:08] Speaker A: So it's crazy because when I started pitching the book, I knew nothing about it. And even once I got the pitch accepted and everything, that the whole pitch never talked about it. And it wasn't still until I started doing research that I started to learn more. And I saw specifically this article from 1994 in the Globe and Mail where they write about how Wayne Yearwood and Cordell Llewellyn, who were cut from that team at the. At the World cup, which was in Toronto, went On the Record and said basically stuff about how there was racial bias in the selection process. So I started doing my research and talking to people. And like, I think it's important for me to say, like, this wasn't to sensationalize a topic. I just ended up talking to so many people who were so convinced that this was racism and this was systemic racism that I felt I had to go on the record and say that. And that's what ended up happening. I talked to 10 to 15 people who said back in the 80s and 90s, you know, there was barely any black people on. On Canada's teams. And what would often happen is there would be a few black guys on the teams that went to smaller tournaments. But then when they went to world championships or Olympics, all of a sudden it would be a mostly white team. [00:11:28] Speaker B: They get cut. [00:11:30] Speaker A: Yeah. So I go into the whole history of that in the book and what exactly happened and how the change also happened. But yeah, to answer your question, like I didn't know anything about it when I started. [00:11:41] Speaker B: How much was this something when you maybe you're chatting with people, something that people are trying to keep under the rug. Were there people maybe like trying to deny this was when you like chatting with them, that this even existed? [00:11:55] Speaker A: So there's like two factions, like outside of Canada basketball, there's definitely people who didn't agree with this framing. Right. They just saw it as old school coaches doing old school things, I. E. Not wanting to change their system to accommodate, you know, different players who didn't fit. So you got a lot of that kind of language in terms of like he was old school, he just didn't understand yada, yada, yada. But when you really broke it down, it was more than that, I think. And it was, you know, again, I go into it, but it was where the trouts were held, it was how the people were treated. It was all this stuff in Canada basketball, no one ever tried to hide it or put it under the rug. In fact, like Rowan Barrett talked to me on the record and he experienced what happened in the lead up to the 2000 Olympics. He was a part of that changing of the guard, which the 2000 Olympic team was really the first team where it was predominantly minorities on the team. And Rowan was a part of that. And he had quotes about how the whole system had to change to accommodate players like himself. So yeah, people weren't necessarily trying to sweep it under the rug, but there's definitely a big segment of the population that's still just considers it kind of old fashioned coaching as opposed to a more systemic problem. [00:13:25] Speaker B: You mentioned in your book too that there was this sentiment that Toronto's talent could beat the national team, Canada's national team. After doing the research that you did from those national teams from decades ago, do you believe that? [00:13:41] Speaker A: Well, yeah. So like there was. That sentiment existed because the national team was historically based out of the west coast and east coast. Cities like Toronto and Montreal weren't really represented. Right. So that's why you heard this, like if we just put Toronto's best players together, they could probably go and beat the national team. And I think, I can't say for sure if they would have went probably if they had some good coaching, they would have won some years, but more so the idea is that what should have been happening is it should have been a mix, right? It should have been the best of the west coast, the best of the east coast altogether. Representing Canada, no matter where you're from, no matter what you look like. And that wasn't happening. [00:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah, shout out to the talent in bc, but now you look at the rosters, it's like once in a blue moon that there's a guy from B.C. representing Canada basketball at times. So, like, the fact that that was the majority of what, the roster, the talent, that's where they went. You mentioned your book. Training camp used to be out there, all that kind of stuff. The fact that that was the case, it's kind of crazy when you think about it. [00:14:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And things change, right? To be fair, like, it wasn't always this way, that the nexus of basketball power was in the East Coast. But as Canada opened up its borders and allowed visible minority immigrants from outside of Europe into the country in the 70s and the 80s, that's when a lot of West Indian immigrants came predominantly to Toronto, Montreal, Halifax, cities like that. And that's how this basketball boom really started. It is a story of immigration. It is a story of, you know, primarily those West Indian immigrants coming to cities like Toronto and putting their stomp on the basketball scene and growing it out from there. So it took a while for Canada basketball to catch up with that and for the organization to accept that, okay, this is now where the basketball power lies. We gotta change up the way we do things to accept these type of players as well. But, yeah, like on the 2024 Olympic team, eight of them, I, I believe, were from Ontario. [00:15:39] Speaker B: GTA. You also talk about it. Your book kind of obviously goes through, like, the history, the years, the 90s, early 2000s, like, just taking us through, like a journey, right? And at one point, the baton gets passed on to Leo Robins to run things with Canada basketball. And you detail, like, how difficult it was for him taking over at the time because there was so much, like. I wouldn't say push back against him, but so much like pushback, maybe against just the federation and stuff that was happening. Whether it was like, AU basketball faction not sending their guys to go play. And then some guys also just, like, feeling some type of way. Because you detailed, like, some of the racist. Racism that was going on. Jamal McGlore was a big guy that was like, question, like, why did he not play? And you talked about it. I don't know if he gave you an exact answer why he didn't play. But Simeon Mars, a guy I think a lot of people in the basketball community in Canada Toronto know very well, he was a guy that was snubbed, right? Multiple times. What did you just learn about how difficult it was for, for Leo during that time? And he was trying his hardest. Like, just reading the book, I was like, damn, this guy was, he was, he was trying to look for talent. No, people were pushing back. [00:16:54] Speaker A: Leo's a really like underrated figure, I think, in this turnaround for the program because while his years from 2005 to 2011, they did not have a lot of success. In fact, they missed out on a world championship, didn't even qualify. He was doing things behind the scenes that would eventually pay dividends, right? And so one of them was racism, which we talked about. He had to go into gyms and explain that he was going to do things differently. He was going to look at the whole country. He wasn't going to have the bias. But it wasn't just racism. Like, that was not the only problem with Canada basketball. Like, funding was a huge issue. And as a result of a lack of funds, they didn't have the proper performance staffs. They didn't have all these things. So players would like, for example, Sherman Hamilton got hurt in camp, right? He got hurt. He ended up blowing a disc. He ended up having to get back surgery. And the program, they just didn't do anything. They, they just let him go because they didn't care. He wasn't going to make the team, so they didn't care. And, and that, that was in the early 90s. But the point was Leo, when he took over, he had to get more money into the program and, and kind of help athletes be treated better from every level and try to convince some guys, like things were no longer going to be done in this kind of mom and pop shop way. How Canada basketball used to be run now is going to start to be a more professional organization. So yeah, I give a lot of credit for him because what he really did was like, he started establishing where the money had to go, whether it was performance staffs, whether it was like flights for, you know, families, for example, was a big one. Like players didn't want to spend the whole summer away from their families. And Canada basketball wasn't paying for that stuff. So he, he, he got like small things that only a player would know. He said, this is what we need money for. However, they still struggle to get that money really until 2012, which is when Steve Nash came on board as GM and he really helped bring a lot of money in. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Yeah, he asked to over at a time where it was kind of like the passing of like Steve was kind of done with the national team at that point. G. Triano was on his way out. Other guys were not playing. You mentioned I found fascinating to the Samuel D. Part hilarious. I've heard just like that that I recommend if you guys haven't read the book, this is why. Just the infighting that was going on and Samuel definitely a character. Just the stuff that went on with him and obviously I think they kicked him off at one point, right? [00:19:17] Speaker A: Yeah, they kicked him off the team in the middle of a tournament. Leo Rowan said go in the hotel gear stuff and get out here because yeah, I won't explain everything right now, it's in the book. But basically they went out of their way to kind of help him get his Canadian citizenship so he could play on the team. And that ended up backfiring on them. So a lot of infighting, A lot of crazy, crazy stuff happens at international basketball. And that was part of the appeal for me doing the book. Like I love these international basketball stories now they've cleaned it up but man, back in the 80s 90s, 2000s, like anything would go in these FIBA games. And the stories are incredible. [00:19:54] Speaker B: Yeah, we talked about funding was a big issue. I think it's not as big of an issue anymore. Shout out to Bartlett and what they've done in terms of just like it's not, it's considered now like like a world class organization stuff. Stuff that they're doing now. Right. So especially just funding when you have star players like Shay, all these guys, they're expecting that. [00:20:13] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:14] Speaker B: So shout out to them what they, what they've been able to do. But you detail in your book too like guys would like dorm together like sleep over. Like it was like a Humber college. Like I don't know if they're still doing that, but they used to like sleep in like I don't know what the per diem was back then, but I remember hearing a story about like I think it was a Kelly Linux saying at one point back in the day like that he would save all of his like per diem for college or something like that. [00:20:41] Speaker A: No, the stories are crazy. I think Leo, when he played they got $3 a day and God damn, there's a story in there where like they would go to these tournaments and say like we get $3 a day and India was like, we get $12 a day. So it just went to show that like Canada was not the most well funded team. And yeah, and then obviously you talk. [00:21:02] Speaker B: About the au, you talked about that, just the federation pushback, what was that like when Leo was, was doing it, going to these coaches, these grassroots guys, and be like, we want to have your guys play. But they also felt slighted too at times. And some guys were. There was like a boom right in the late 2000, 2000, maybe nine, like around that time, eight, 10, like guys are playing AAU because scholarships are coming. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:21:29] Speaker B: So talk to me about just about what that relationship was like with AU Federation. [00:21:33] Speaker A: Yeah, so like Ontario basketball, which is kind of under Canada basketball, they always had a mandate to place players on Canadian university teams. So that's who coach their teams. That's who coached Team Ontario. That's who they had relationships. That's where they would try to funnel the best players. But Roe Russell and Grassroots Elite, you know, he started with a guy named Wayne Dawkins. They realized that actually if you want to go pro in basketball, you have to go to America, you have to get NCAA scholarships. So in the early 2000s, they doing that, they started taking the best players to America to get these scholarships. Ontario basketball and Canada Basketball, meanwhile, were like, well, we want these players in the summers. We want them to play for Ontario, we want to play for Canada's junior national team, eventually the senior team. And the way they went about it didn't always work right. They wouldn't invite these grassroots coaches into the gym. They wouldn't necessarily let them coach the players. They wouldn't bring them along. They just wanted to, to kind of grab them and, and like Wayne Dawkins gives me a quote. It's like, how can you if like the kid looks at you as a father figure and all of a sudden you're not allowed in the gym in the summers? Like when Ontario basketball is running something like, of course he's not going to want to do that. Of course that's not going to be an experience that he wants to do. So it took a long time for Canada basketball and Ontario basketball to understand, like, we can't just assume these guys are going to play for us. We actually need to like, treat them well and treat their coaches well and everything. Leo again was part of that. Like in 2005 when he took over, he had to go to like the AU guys and, and try to get them to play. And both of them were stubborn. I think both of them have to take responsibility here because sometimes an AU coach would say, hey, if you, if you play for Ontario this summer, you're not playing for us. And sometimes Canada basketball allegedly would say the same thing. Like, if, if you play for us, then you're, then you're not playing for the AU this, this summer. So you still hear that stuff going on, like, to this day, right? There's still those beefs. [00:23:31] Speaker B: I was going to ask you, do you think the relationship is solved? Because I think that's the biggest complaint that I still hear to this day. And I'm like, what could. And I get it too, because, like, scheduling conflict, stuff happens. Like training camp, you need guys in. And it sucks because, like, if you want Canada basketball to compete on the stage, you want them to win games, win these FIBA competitions, you need guys to, like, have some continuity, right? Like we talked, we talked about the, when we, when we look at the, the World cup and then the Olympics, like, there wasn't much in terms of, like, decisions making that was changed in terms of adding new players. You could say that that caused some issues. But then Canada basket was like, we want guys in the gym training with us. But then they can't get these guys because they're running to play AAU because that's where the NCAA offers. But I still also say that this past summer, like, guys got offers playing for Canada basketball, you know, this summer playing at the FIBA U19, like, that's like, I think that's the big showcase, I would say, but there's still this issue of like, should I play for Canada basketball or should I play for aau? Like, what do you. Do you think the issue is even close to being solved? [00:24:40] Speaker A: I think it's definitely better than how it used to be, but it'll probably never fully be solved just because the priorities are always going to be different. Like AU teams and the coaches have a priority to get these guys scholarships. So that's their priority. What's Canada basketball priority? It's to win medals. It's not to help guys get scholarships. Of course they're going to say, we'll showcase you, we'll help you. And it does, in, in certain cases, definitely help guys who have the ball in their hands and who perform at that level, but their priority is to go and win medals in the summer. So I think because of those different priorities, the two kind of organizations are never going to completely see eye to eye. But yeah, I think it is improved to the extent that like, a lot more AU programs work with them a Lot more coaches understand what that can do for their athletes if they do perform well on the world stage and all that thing. But until, like we have people in positions of power who don't have these previous past biases, these previous fights, these previous stuff that they bring to it, we're not gonna completely get over that. We're only gonna ever completely get over those. Those tensions. If the people who are running things on both sides are unbiased and come to it with the perspective of they're trying to help each other. [00:26:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting because, like, I'll hear stories of like, at the February 19World cup, scouts, NBA scouts are there, college coaches are there. Like, they'll go out there and watch you play. So it's like, I think this is like a massive opportunity. I just wish, like there was this fix, like there's a solution to get them to play even. I think it's a problem with the usa, with the national team too. I think there was. There were some guys I remember hearing stories about, like, even, like, this is not just a Canada issue. So I don't want to make it seem like this is just a Canada issue. This is an issue that USA faces. Obviously European teams don't have like AU programs, but this is usa. They just have a larger pool to choose from. So if a guy says no, I'm going to prioritize a you. They can be like, okay, cool. You know what I'm saying? [00:26:47] Speaker A: And that's happening in Canada too, right? We are getting a larger pool and that's helping us. And even. We'll talk later about the Olympic squad. I think having a larger pool of NBA guys and Euro guys to choose from is also going to help the national team be able to do different things and maybe have different asks of their players where if some guys can't do it, that's fine. There's enough that will. But going back to your question, like, have we gotten rid of it? Can we get rid of it? The only way Canada can get rid of this problem is going to a more European model. So that means that will ever happen, right? So that means like a cbl, teams with junior teams, guys playing pro from the time they. They are 16 years old. And then if you're doing that, you're working with Canada basketball, you're going to do that in the summers, you're not playing au. That's the only way. One day I could see our system changing so much that it's more European rather than American. And that way it could solve issue. [00:27:38] Speaker B: You're optimistic. That's cool. I don't see that ever happening, sadly, just because, like, we're just so close to the States and like. Yeah, I just think we're just so intertwined and. Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe one day I want to jump to Andrew Wiggins. I thought he was like, very fascinating, mentioned in your book and just like going through his journey. What'd you learn about Wiggins? And his relationship with the program is also interesting. Right. He got a lot of flack, I feel like from fans, from media, for not showing up for a lot of times. But I, I've always had this, like, feeling about Wiggins that like, he's misunderstood in ways that like, he's also the shy, quiet guy, not this. And you mentioned the book. He's not this, like out there. Like, he's not gonna dunk on you and scream in your face like this next generation of kids, which I love to see, to be honest. But he's not that guy and that's cool. But what'd you learn about Wiggins? Just writing this book? [00:28:30] Speaker A: Yeah, so much like there could be a book on him, to be honest. The big thing when it comes to the national team was I mentioned now during Leo's years, they didn't have a lot of success. And the main reason was we were producing guys. We were starting to produce pros and NBA players, but most of them were like four year college players who turned role players on their pro teams. So you put that together on the national team and it's good, but it doesn't necessarily lead to, okay, at the end of the game, who do we give the ball to? For example, they didn't have a star. And so that's why Wiggins was such a big deal. And ever since 2009, when he was like 16 or 15, they were after him. They were enrolling him in their programs and their youth programs, target athletes, strategy programs. They were training with him. They were, they were with his. His dad was getting involved and they really wanted Wiggins because they saw the potential for a star in their player. [00:29:21] Speaker B: So what went wrong? [00:29:23] Speaker A: I don't know if I would say, like, it went wrong. Like, Wiggins played a decent amount and the two times he played were both times that they should have just made the Olympics. Now what went wrong? I mean, we can get into that. Like, they lost to Venezuela and they lost the Czech Republic, but if they beat both of those teams and they went to the Olympics, I'm sure Wiggins would have played in those Olympic years. So then you look at that Wiggins Canada basketball experience completely differently. If he had played into Olympics like they should have, but because they lost both those in such heartbreaking fashion each time, he ended up taking a little bit of time away from the program after that happened. And yeah, like, I asked him about that, and he said it was. He never had issues with Canada basketball, and it just had to do with the fact that he wanted to prioritize his development for his upcoming NBA season because he always had a big year coming up and the years he didn't play for Canada. But I also just think it's like, it's unrealistic to ask for these guys to play every single year for Canada when they're in the NBA. It's just too much on the body, too much on the mind. And the Wiggins thing is interesting because he was so relied upon to do it because they didn't have any other stars, that he ended up getting scapegoated. And he took all this. All this, like, media and fan backlash for not playing in the years he. He didn't play. And it was because when it came down to it, we were so desperate for winning, we were so desperate for a star. We were so desperate to make it at the top level that he was kind of the guy who was scapegoated. And he wasn't the type of guy who was going to go to the media and explain why that's wrong. And that narrative was inaccurate. So it ended up just kind of going that way. [00:31:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I definitely think he's a scapegoat. Just like, in terms of, you know, it's tough. It's tough when you're NBA player, too. Like Steve Nash, obviously, you mentioned, like, he decided to take time and not play. He was obviously supposed to play in this Olympics. He was on that. Was named as a guy that. But they said issues at the time with, like, the warriors or whatever that is. I don't know, man. I've heard some conflicting things about that, to be honest with you. So, like, I don't know what the issue is, but I want to know, like, how do you think Wiggins fits? Like, say he did play for the Olympics, right? Say he takes Trey Lazer's spot. How do you think he fits with. [00:31:44] Speaker A: Yeah, he would have helped them. I think the team definitely would have been more talented. I mean, Wiggins is a really good player. He's still a starter in the NBA. So the fact that they haven't been able to get him in these crucial years, I Definitely think is a bit of a stain on the program. And whatever the reason was, like, he said he had to focus on the NBA. I think if you have a program like a Serbia, France, where winning is established, culture is established, it's established that these guys are going to show up for their country because that's what all their predecessors did, and also because they know they're going to win and they're going to win medals, then Wiggins probably plays. And it really does date back to the stuff we talked about at the beginning in the 90s and the 2000s and the money and the race and all these things linger and they end up having real negative effects down the line. And I think that's kind of what happened with Wiggins, is the program wasn't in a position where he was going to play every single year because it wasn't that attractive of a thing to do. [00:32:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Another guy you highlighted, Jamal Murray relationship with Canada Basketball Olympics. Obviously, it was kind of like a. Everyone I even dreamed. I'm like, this Olympics backcourt. Shay Gillis Alexander, Jamal Murray, on paper, arguably the greatest backcourt in the world. You'd think, right? I don't know. Just. I talked to some people. Global Jam, he made an appearance. I was shocked, to be honest with you. I was shocked. But that, to me, is a good sign, especially after what happened. Very good sign. Because I was like, this is not. And I think you even talked to people within organization after that few months after the relationship was not in a great place. But you did call it controversial decision. Going to Wiggins, going to Nemhard. Trey Lyles, I think, was also the other one. Those three. Do you really think it was? Because, like, I don't think it was. Because, like, people get mad at, like, okay, we want these guys to show up. So then when Roam Bear is like, okay, you guys want these guys to play, we're gonna fix up our criteria, switch it up a bit. Especially now that Nick Nurse is gone. To me, that criteria was out the window, but I was like, yeah, why are people upset about this? Wiggy should be considered. He should be coming to camp. [00:34:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:34:04] Speaker B: Andrew Nemhard should be there. And he has a great excuse why he wasn't. He was going through the job process. You know what I'm saying? Trey Lyles, I don't know what the situation was, but I just. I'm wondering, like, do you think you said it was a controversial decision? Like, what do you think about that? And just like, from what, speaking to people just about that. [00:34:20] Speaker A: No, I think I agree, like, the right thing to do was to go outside of the summer court and create the most talented team possible. Like we look at Andrew Nemhardt, he didn't end up having a great tournament, but it's gonna play dividends in 2028. The fact that he was there, that it'll be his second Olympics and all that. So I definitely think that was the right decision. I guess what was controversial and what didn't stick right with me was how they went about it. Because they said how back when you go back to the summer core announcement, they said, these are our 12. This is who we're sticking with. The only way someone else is going to come on is if there's an injury. And they were asked, what if a Wiggins wants to play in 24? And. And they said, like, he's going to have to wait until the next quad because there's not going to be spots. And then when he was like, Rowan Barrett was asked about this in 2024, he kind of said. He kind of acted like that never happened. I guess I had a problem with the way that they went about it in terms of acting like that wasn't the ask because in 2021, when they announced the summer core, they said that these were going to be our 12 players and there was only going to be insurances if there was injuries. And what ended up happening was they added up a bunch of guys and it was clearly just to inject talent. And they should have just went and said, look, we want the most talented team, we're going back on our word. But instead they didn't want to admit that, that they said that and that they were going back on their word. And so they kind of acted like we in the media when we asked that question, we were the ones making up stories. And that was my issue, I guess, with that. But. [00:36:04] Speaker B: So you just wanted them to be like, yeah, we're taking the best out. [00:36:06] Speaker A: Yeah, okay. And. And I guess the controversial part of it is mostly just that it sets a precedent, that if you ever ask again for a three year, two year commitment, a player can just sit there and say, well, I saw what you did last run and I'm not going to commit to this three year, but I know when the Olympic year comes along, you'll take me if I'm one of the best players. [00:36:31] Speaker B: Like I said, Zach, Edie, you cannot play for the World Cup. I don't care what happens. He is my first call. Because you need someone that is that tall. We don't have many bigs, but I. [00:36:41] Speaker A: Guess when you go back and you look at the history of the national team, usually that doesn't end up working out for them when they, they just go and pluck the best talent, even if there's no continuity. [00:36:50] Speaker B: Zach Edie. [00:36:51] Speaker A: No, I know what you mean, but my point is like, usually you need continuity. [00:36:57] Speaker B: Yes. [00:36:58] Speaker A: And so that's where I worry. What they did in 2024, it kind of, it could mess with the precedent there and players could just kind of be like, well, you clearly went back on your word. I don't need to commit to a long term project when I could just play in the Olympic year. [00:37:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with that. But I'm also just like unique situations. And you're desperate. You're desperate. And there should be some like, okay, for Biggs, we allow anything. Anybody that wants to come over 7ft. [00:37:26] Speaker A: Tall, there's no rules. [00:37:27] Speaker B: No rules. You are allowed to come whenever you want. If we need you, we'll make the call. You also mentioned in your book that Rowan Barrett and Jordy Fernandez clashed over decision making power at the Olympics. What was that about? [00:37:41] Speaker A: Primarily, I think what happened with Jamal Murray. I think what happens in these tournaments is everyone's trying to keep everyone happy and that ended up not making anyone happy. And so obviously, Jamal, like you've said, this was promised a starting spot on this team. Jordy Fernandez, the coach just wants to win games, right. And so he, as he told me, he was the one who ended up sticking with Lou Dort in the starting lineup when Lou was playing well. And so I think this is where these clashes come from. It's giving guys promises, it's not being able to live up to them. And, and there's also a history there of, of Rowan's also clash with some of the previous coaches like Jay Triano. So I think maybe that's a lesson that he learned is, is maybe to let the coaches have a little bit more power. And, and Gordy and him, Gordy Herbert, the new coach, they have such a long lasting relationship dating back so long that I think that'll be easier there where it's not a new guy coming in who maybe doesn't know the players as well, doesn't have the history of the players that Rowan has. Like Gordy knows these players for, for just as long as Rowan does, pretty much. So I think they'll be able to work together really well. But yeah, I think at the Olympics. [00:39:00] Speaker B: It. [00:39:03] Speaker A: Was just everyone thinking that they had the best way to do things. For the team and maybe too many voices in the room. [00:39:16] Speaker B: Interesting. You also mentioned that players were disappointed that they were staying at dorm like village at the Olympics, which I found very interesting because USA spending. What I think Bartley came on the podcast, said like sometimes the hotels that USA spending is more than their whole budget for the year. He said something like that. Don't correct me if I'm wrong, but go listen to that podcast with Bartlett a few months ago. But he mentioned like, obviously, like their budget isn't as high as like the usa. No one's budget as high as USA Basketball. Like it's insane what their budget is. But like, what were your thoughts on that? Just like obviously now you have star players. It's gotten way better. Like I said, I give Bartlett huge credit for that. But what's the sentiment like for. For guys like Shay? I'm guessing she's probably like, I want to go stay at a five star. Like I'm from Shea. I need a. I need a hot tub in my room. I need a five bedroom. I need a yacht. I need something. You know, like, what do you think the sentiment was like, from players just like staying at this and it was a bit away from, you know. [00:40:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Like the good news is that they're no longer like bunking two to a room like we talked about earlier. But what happened was they set up like a mini village for just the basketball teams in Lil where the group stage was. You know, teams like France who have a ton of money, they stayed in like this private facility in the countryside. Teams like USA stated five stars in Paris and then took the trains in for the game. Most of the other countries stayed at these dorms. And yeah, it's like a mini village and it's just not really a great place for 6ft tall NBA players to play. So guys were disappointed when they got there and learned where they sing. Like Canadian players are pretty easy going relative to a lot of NBA guys. So it's not like I'm not trying to paint them as like these like fussy guys who like were like, oh, get us out of here. But Canada basketball definitely learned a lesson. And I can tell you as much because I think like Bartlett said, they already booked the hotel for, for la, right. So they got ahead of it because they didn't want the. The players to stay in a village because they, they realized that's probably not the best way to set up an athlete for success. So I think, yeah, they learned a lesson there for sure. [00:41:22] Speaker B: Barley, if you listen to this Podcast. Text me what the hotel is. I'll give you a review. I'll tell you my thoughts on it. And if it's a. I don't think it's my budget, to be honest, because I probably can't stay there. But what's something. Obviously, you conducted over 100 interviews for this story. Crazy work to. Like you said two years, right? Putting your. Your hard emotions. I feel. I remember calling sometimes. I'm like, this guy is. He's going through it right now. You know, just hearing the process. What was, like, the most surprising or like, maybe like, emotional moment throughout the process for you? [00:41:54] Speaker A: I mean, one emotional moment that comes to mind was definitely when they beat Spain in the 2023 World Cup. That was a crazy game. They came back from 12 in the fourth quarter on the back of Shea and Dylan Brooks, and that booked their spot at the Olympics for the first time in 24 years. And that was huge. As a basketball fan, just seeing that after getting to know the players a little bit, being super happy for them, for the support staff and the coaches, and also definitely, like, for the book and knowing that, like, okay, we definitely have a book here now that, like, this journey is kind of set in stone, and they finally got over that. That mountaintop, and they've qualified for the Olympics. So that was an emotional moment that I can just remember watching. And then obviously, the cherry on top was that a few days later they went and beat Team USA behind another Dylan Brooks masterpiece. And. And they won the bronze medal. So that was super cool. And in terms of surprising stuff, it was definitely what we talked about earlier with the racism issue in Canada, basketball. [00:42:59] Speaker B: Is there something like that didn't make the final version that you wish we could have seen or. [00:43:04] Speaker A: Or. [00:43:04] Speaker B: No. [00:43:05] Speaker A: Yeah. A lot of things honestly, ended up getting cut. Like, there's so many stories, there's so many players that I wish we could have shot a spotlight on that just didn't have room. [00:43:13] Speaker B: And let me know, we'll get them on the podcast. [00:43:15] Speaker A: A big one for me was Quebec. Like, I had a chapter in there about Quebec, and that was going to be kind of an interlude, and it ended up getting caught because there wasn't really room and it didn't fit in the narrative. But I think what's happening in Quebec is super interesting right now, and it mirrors a little bit about what happened in Ontario, but it's also different because there's this whole other element of language which is super fascinating. With it went to a French government and all these Anglophones left And there's like, the race, but there's also the. The language issue. So what happens right now in Quebec? And now they're producing all these NBA players and another one right now, Jamil Telford in the NBA this year. So. [00:43:56] Speaker B: Clippers. Yeah. [00:43:56] Speaker A: Yeah. So that was a story I had to cut. That was. That was super hard to cut because I just feel like we're just going to keep seeing players from Quebec. Yeah. [00:44:04] Speaker B: Maxine Meyer just committed to Duke. Crazy. I think they probably came in last minute and scooped them up. Other guys, I'm thinking Promise Lin Landu, he was at Fort Erie. He had a good game. I think recently, Kamai Samuels, Eli Julian St. Clair going to Santa Clara, a lot of guys. Quebec's punching out talent. I wonder if Alberta's catching up, though. That's. That's my big question, too, because that's another. [00:44:25] Speaker A: That's the next story. I gotta learn more about what's happening. Alberta, for sure. [00:44:28] Speaker B: Alberta. Alberta's popping up. What do you want people to take away from this book? [00:44:35] Speaker A: I think, like, a big thing is we've spent a lot of time talking about Canada basketball, and it's a really important program, and I'm really excited for them to have success on the world stage and inspire so many, like, new young players to pick up the game, because I do think that has a real potential in 28. But I think a takeaway that readers should have and will have is that, like, most of this growth happened in spite of the government. It happened in spite of the corporations, and it happened at the grassroots level with guys like Roe Russell, with guys like Mike George who created these AU programs, club programs. Maybe it was high school coaches, maybe it was parents. And these people just dedicated countless hours in the gym to. To help kids, to help their. Their. Their kids in some cases. And they didn't have help. [00:45:26] Speaker B: The. [00:45:27] Speaker A: The government wasn't helping them. Right. Like, the corporate powers weren't helping them, and they did it anyway. So I think that's an important thing because in this country, we are. You will hear very loud voices saying, that kid's mine. You know, Mike Cabongo had a great monologue on the pot about, like, that kid's mine. You know, I got him there or whatever it might be. And it's like, we need to do a better job of, like, explaining who actually gets the credit for this rise of Canadian basketball. And it really is, in my opinion, after doing all these interviews, it's those people at the grassroots level who made it out the mud more or less like, didn't have help, did it by themselves, and found creative ways to help kids excel in basketball. [00:46:13] Speaker B: Obviously all the research you did, is there something you would, I don't know, change about? I want to say just Canada Basketball. Canadian basketball, just like programs policy after doing so much research, something that you change that you think could get us to another level. [00:46:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So there's a lot of talk right now, like the. There was just like a commission done recently, a safe sport commission, about the fact that in this country you can get accredited as a coach or as a prep school or as a program without any, you know, government, without material. Basketball. Yeah. You could pop out of nowhere. And, and I think that's a big problem. I think there are a lot of poor programs that are taking kids money and in some case charging tens of thousands of dollars a year from desperate parents who want their kids to succeed. I also think the fix isn't nearly as easy as people make it seem to be. Like, I've seen a lot of people come out of this conference and say, well, we need the provincial sport organizations to give those, those coaches credits. Right. So that would be Ontario basketball having a mandate and saying this is what you need to do to get accredited. That sounds great in theory, as we just talked about in practice. There is a history here of Ontario basketball and, and the grassroots organizers not getting along and not treating one another well. So you can't ignore that history and just say this is how it has to be right now. Where I know, at least in basketball, it's way more complicated than that. So we need to one day get it to a point where, yes, coaches need to be accredited, schools need to be accredited, but I don't know how we do that because there is a baked in distrust based on decades of history. With Ontario basketball, for example, some of the provincial organizations and then some of the grassroots people. [00:48:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's a hard topic. Something I don't think will be solved, to be honest with you. You're optimistic. I'm on the, the side to where it's like, this is what the system is. Maybe it does get faked, maybe it doesn't. But yeah, you're right, it probably won't. [00:48:25] Speaker A: It'll probably be more like America where people keep popping up, people keep taking money. [00:48:30] Speaker B: Yep. [00:48:31] Speaker A: More and more money gets pulled into it, but the cream will still rise to the top. [00:48:34] Speaker B: The golden generation. How can it became a basketball powerhouse? Go read it. It's a must read for every Canadian basketball fan. My guy or about to obviously switch topics. Take a break in a quick second. But where can people get it? [00:48:46] Speaker A: Yeah, the Golden Generation. Available at anywhere you buy books, Indigo, Amazon. It's only 25 bucks, so makes a great holiday gift. Holidays right around the corner. And yeah, even if maybe you have one or you're not a big basketball fan, I'm sure like any sports fans in your life would appreciate it as a gift. [00:49:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I've been reading it. I'm like, almost done. It's taking me like two days to be honest. That's how like I've been. I don't want to say where I've been reading it, but I've been finding places to read the book, you know. So we'll take a break, come back and draft our dream 2028 Olympic roster for Canada Basketball. This is the Canadian Basketball show and I'm your host, Le Ben Os. Welcome back to the Canadian Basketball Show. We're about to draft our dream Olympic roster for 2028 LA Olympics rules. Before we get started into this, the players you draft have to be a pro can't be in college basketball story for the Xavier Lee's of the world story for the Aiden Holloways of the world. Those guys not included. High school guys not included. You got to be a professional pro either, playing in the euroleague somewhere across the world in the NBA. Obviously there's going to be a lot of guys potentially there. And this isn't what you think the roster will be. This is your dream. I don't want you to give me a list that's like Gordy Herbert's list, you know, because his list might include more overseas guys than NBA guys. Right. And yeah, so let's go through it all. But before we do any hot takes, before we get into the selection process for your 12 man Canadian 2028 roster, any hot takes that you want to see from the 2028 Olympic roster? [00:50:47] Speaker A: Hot takes that I. That I want to see. I guess the. The hottest one, I guess is your. You've been on this guy. But I think Keyshawn George could start on this team. [00:50:57] Speaker B: Start, Start. Wow. [00:50:59] Speaker A: Start, start. Yeah, man. I mean, think about it. He'll have two more years of NBA experience behind him. He's already getting so much opportunity to grow his game in Washington because they don't have a ton of better options than him, let's be honest. And he kind of fits that perfect mold where you no longer have to start Dylan at the 4 and play super small, but he, he kind of can play this, this Role as this, like six foot eight, nine big. [00:51:31] Speaker B: He's growing. [00:51:32] Speaker A: Shoot. Shoot the ball. Who can guard up a little bit? Who can guard down? Switch. I think Keyshawn George is kind of like the missing piece that this team needs at that forward spot. [00:51:43] Speaker B: Yeah, they've been on him, right, for. For years prior, obviously. His dad played for the junior national team with Canada basketball with Rowan Barrett, Steve Nash. Those guys went overseas. Switzerland. That's where Keyshawn's from. And then, yeah, it's been works. It's been in the works for a while. Played FIBA Mayor A Cup this past summer. [00:51:59] Speaker A: Super impressive. [00:52:00] Speaker B: Super impressive, right? [00:52:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:02] Speaker B: Had a really good run there. I thought he was one of the two best players for Canada there. Another guy that I think was also a guy that I want on this roster was very impressive to me in the FIBA Mare Cup. But Keyshawn, you said that's your hot take. How many players do you have from the 2024 Olympics for Canada returning? [00:52:23] Speaker A: I got seven. Seven guys, including Jamal Murray. [00:52:28] Speaker B: And Jamal Murray. I love to see it. Let's hear starting five, though. So you mentioned Keyshawn George. [00:52:32] Speaker A: Yeah, starting five. So, I mean, I. I said this the last time you had me on the pod. We kind of did this impromptu starting five, and I said SGA Nemhard Brooks. I had rj, but I'm changing that to Keyshawn George and Zach Edie. So those would be my five. Sga, Nemhard, Brooks, George Edie. [00:52:52] Speaker B: Interesting. Okay. I go a little bit different here. I go Shea. I go RJ Barrett. I go Dylan Brooks. I'm Put Keyshawn George there, too. That's my guy. I'm gonna go Zach 82. [00:53:04] Speaker A: So you just had RJ for Nemhard? [00:53:06] Speaker B: Yes, yeah. Yes, I do. But then I'm also questioning. [00:53:11] Speaker A: I mean, they're both playing great, they're both improving. So, yeah, it could go away. You need. [00:53:15] Speaker B: So you bringing Jamal Murray off the bench again? [00:53:17] Speaker A: Yes. [00:53:18] Speaker B: And rj, I forgot that I had it on my list. I might not. I don't know. It's tough. This is such a. Like, this is such a bad, like, not bad, but it's like, this is such a good problem to have. But, like, how do you juggle this, like, so much? [00:53:34] Speaker A: And to be clear, like, Jamal, I think will be a better player than Andrew at this point in his career in 28. I just think we didn't see enough at the last Olympics to where it makes great sense for SG and Jamal to play together. And Nemahard, you Know that's his role in the NBA. He plays beside Tyrese Halliburton. He guards the best player every night. He has that secondary creation responsibility. To me, it just makes so much sense to have him guarding the best guard. Let Shay get a little bit of break on defense, and then off the bench. You have this spark plug in Jamal Murray. [00:54:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Interesting. I wonder, like, will that be a role that he's happy with? [00:54:15] Speaker A: Right. [00:54:15] Speaker B: Because there's obviously some issues this past last summer, so. But I don't know. I forgot I even had Jamal Murray on the list, to be honest with you. [00:54:22] Speaker A: I think the issues this summer mostly had to do with Jamal's health and him not being. [00:54:27] Speaker B: So if he's healthy, in the best shape. Started to you, though, if fully at his. Listen, Jamal Murray at his full capabilities. NBA Finals, Jamal Murray. [00:54:35] Speaker A: Here's what I think was important about 2024. Is it taught the guys that, like, you're gonna just have to sacrifice to win this thing. And I'm not just talking about Jamal, but, like, everyone's gonna have to come in 2028 with, like, the mindset that, like, we don't care if we're starting, we don't care if we're having the ball in our hands. We don't care if we're getting a ton of shots whenever we do come in the game. We just want to help them win. I know that sounds, like, unrealistic for a bunch of NBA guys, but I think that's a lesson a lot of them took home with them from 2024 is that, like, forget the egos, forget all that stuff. Forget where we are in the hierarchy of our NBA team. This is different. The national team is different. It's obviously Shay's team. Everyone else has to fall under him. And, yeah, I think. I think if they. For the guys that. That show up in 2028, there's going to be that. That understanding baked in. Yeah. [00:55:25] Speaker B: Jamal Murray will probably be, I think, 31 by the time the next Olympics rolls around. So we'll see, man. We'll see. That's your five. Give me the next two guys that make your list or give me the next five. [00:55:40] Speaker A: Next five. Okay, so Jamal and rj, we talked about. Those are two more coming up. The bench. Fundo Cab and Gelli is my backup 5. Nikila Alexander Walker and my next guy. Let's go with. Let's go. Lou Dort. You got to give Lou Dort some love there. [00:56:02] Speaker B: Ludor. [00:56:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:04] Speaker B: Kevin Gilly. I mentioned to me he was the Other guy outside of Keyshawn George, that was very impressive. [00:56:10] Speaker A: I think he. [00:56:11] Speaker B: He might have been like the most consistent player. And then I just think about two. Obviously he was kind of like those last few cuts for the Olympic roster in 2024. I'm just thinking, like, if he made that roster and he was guarding, say, a Yabu Selly, and I think him and like Dylan Brooks, their energies are going to feed off each other. If they're both there like that. Just the way he plays basketball is just like this. And he can space the floor. You can shoot the ball too. What's your thoughts on Capehali? Is he like a lock for you? Like, needs to be at the 2020 Olympics for sure. [00:56:40] Speaker A: And part of it is actually also that you have to show some love to your wintercore guys. Like, there has to be a couple representatives at the Olympics or else guys start to question what's the point of playing in the winter if I'm not even going to be considered here? So he's obviously the guy they're going to lean on in these next few windows to help the winter core qualify for the next World Cup. And he's just still getting better. This is his first Euro league season. Right now he's in Dubai, so I just think that that's going to really help with his development playing against that talent in the Euroleague. And he. He's going to keep getting better. Like you said, that jump shot, it continues to improve. He's one of the best rebounders in Europe. And yeah, I think between him and Edie, that's a really solid front court combination. And if they could get both of those guys, they would be in way better shape than they were in 24 at the center spot. [00:57:30] Speaker B: We talk about it, the big issue is always like, the big man position. Knock on wood. Are you worried at all? Like, Zach 80s been dealing with some injuries. Kevin Gilly, like, it kind of puts them in a desperate position at some points. When you think about, like, knock on wood, obviously we don't want injuries to happen, but, like, what happens if, like Zach Eddie can't play an Olympics, right. Or a contract situation comes up. Right? [00:57:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Or. [00:57:58] Speaker B: Similar thing with Kevin Gilly. Say something arises where he can't play. What's the solution? [00:58:04] Speaker A: I actually think, like, we could be here in a few years talking about this Olympics very similar to 24 in terms of like, it would not be surprising if this ends up being a really small team that has to survive in the same way that Jordy was trying to Help them survive by playing super fast, by pressuring up court on the defense, by speeding opposing teams up. Like maybe they just have to do that and they have to do it a little bit better and they can actually win by doing that. I think they can win by playing that style. It's not ideal. You do want a couple seven footers for sure, but that could end up being it because like, like you said, Zach Eddie, he's not getting time to develop in the NBA right now. He's hurt all the time. And Kevin Gully, he's not a seven footer. So there is definitely a world where they don't have this great big man depth and they're going to have to play kind of similar, really up tempo, really small and just hope that by that time they have so much talent at the garden wing positions that they can, they can win a medal. [00:59:02] Speaker B: So I'll give you my 10. I think it might be the same Shay, R.J. dillon, Zach, Jamal Cabin, Geli Ludor, Andrew Nemhard. How much people that just go through Nikhil keyshawn. Is that 10? [00:59:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. [00:59:18] Speaker B: I think that's 10. So is that the same exact 10 that we have? Okay, this is where it gets interesting, I think, because I have some guys that obviously we talk about, do they need more bigs? Will they go small? Do they need more shooting too? Because they struggled sometimes shooting. I think they shot the ball pretty well in the tournament until like the last few games. But we talked about Gordy Herbert, right. Obviously he's a guy that values commitment. We talked about what he prior, like what he did to Isaiah Hardenstein. [00:59:46] Speaker A: Right. [00:59:46] Speaker B: Oklahoma. He wasn't really committed. He didn't play for, for the German national team. Yeah. So far there's no Euro guys outside of Karen Gilly. Do you have another guy on your list? [00:59:58] Speaker A: No, I don't. But if we're talking about what will probably happen, yeah, he will probably reward that continuity and I don't mind it. Like it's hard to say this now because we don't know who's going to be committed over the Winter Core over the next few years and who's going to help them qualify for these tournaments. But that will definitely go into their decision making. And that's why I would not be surprised to see a Trey Bell Haynes or a Marcus Carr make team, even a Kyle Wilcher. But those guys did not make my list. [01:00:25] Speaker B: Who's the final two? [01:00:26] Speaker A: I went with two more NBA guys. One is a shooter, Ben Matheran, who just. He is A really interesting player who you might not peg for a great international player on first stroke just because he's such a spark plug and a lot of what he does is like NBA spacing and stuff like that. But man, that guy scores the ball and I think just having that on the bench, having that weapon to go to at any time, I think they would be kind of silly not to take him. And he's somewhat committed. He was around in camp last year, him and Jaden Sharpe, like those guys want to be a part of the program. But he got off to such a good start to this year before this injury with the Pacers and I think Matheran will be on the team and then you need more front court depth. So far I just don't have enough and I'm going to take another guy who has been injured a lot recently. But when he's healthy he really is good. He could be a really good international big. And he's talked to me about how this last core just wasn't good timing for him but how he would like to play in Canada in the future. And that's Brandon Clark, Memphis Grizzlies 4 Man, one of the best offensive rebounders, super multi positional defender. He's not going to like score the ball a ton but yeah, he could be super helpful on the defensive end. [01:01:46] Speaker B: Okay. My last two, I went small. To be honest with you. Brian Clark is not on my list. Even though I love to see him in some capacity, maybe playing for national team eventually. He's also dealing with so many injuries, so it's tough, it's tough to see that. I went with maybe a bit projecting the future. I'm expecting this guy. I covered him a lot this past year throughout the draft cycle. Will Riley, Washington. [01:02:11] Speaker A: Love that. That's a hot take. [01:02:12] Speaker B: Hot take 6, 9 can shoot the ball. I've liked what I've seen from like limited minutes he's had at Washington. I was expecting, to be honest, he might, he might eventually obviously go to the G League, get some run there, get stronger, that kind of stuff. But I think he's a steal at where he was picked this past year in the 2025 NBA Draft. So Will Riley's a guy that I would like to see and I think he can. Like he has a size and he's still growing. I think he'd be like six, ten now. Six ten and a half maybe something like that. He's growing like he. I remember seeing him last year at the Hoop Summit and then seeing him again at the Draft combine. I'm like, this guy, he grew. He definitely grew. So he gets stronger and just added shooting. Added like the ability to like create his own shot. Very sneaky. Draw fouls, which I think is a big thing in fiba. Will Riley is another name and another guy that I'm going with. Guard Wise. Not Ben Mather, Shaden, Sharp, London. I'm a big Shane Sharp guy. I've always. I've always been. I think just the athleticism that he has and just. I think he's. He's had a pretty good start to the year. I feel like at Port in Portland, those guys. I'm. There's a lot of guards though. I'm heavy on guards right now, so. But I'm looking at Omax. He's on my honorable mention list, to be honest with you. [01:03:36] Speaker A: Him and Brandon for me. [01:03:39] Speaker B: Brian Clark. [01:03:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Because one of the. They need like a four like that. They do. [01:03:43] Speaker B: And I think if you watch Omax's games, I think the biggest thing for him, he's trying to adjust to the speed of the NBA. He's still like a bit erratic at times, but he's a hustle guy. Like, he'll do the dirty work for you. No complaints, Run the floor, fill the lanes, cut to the basket. So if you're looking for something like that, O Max is the guy. [01:04:03] Speaker A: What about this guy who just committed to Duke, Maxime? Does he have a chance or is he going to be too young? Like, he'll be in second year in the NBA. [01:04:11] Speaker B: We said no high school players. That's the thing. [01:04:12] Speaker A: I know, I know, but I'm just like wondering. [01:04:14] Speaker B: I hate putting expectations on guys too young. But yeah, I know Canada basketball is heavily invested in his future. So I Remember watching him FIBA U16 and that guy, he couldn't like. Like, it's development's crazy. And I heard from people that close to him, like, he's from a hockey background similar to Zach Eaty on the same like Journey. IMG Academy had a ton of offers. Duke, like I said, got. I think got in the last minute and they see the potential if Duke's recruiting you the first Canadian guy since RJ Barrett to go to Duke. So yeah. Maxi Meyer. I don't want to put too much expectations on guys, especially that young. They'll probably go through the draft process too. I think. Yeah, he might be. He could be a one and done. I don't really see it. Maybe two years. [01:05:02] Speaker A: Like. [01:05:03] Speaker B: But there's no. There shouldn't be that much rush. Right? Yeah, but it's rush for Canada basketball because you need bigs, so. [01:05:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Although like a young big might not end up going to the olympics Regardless. [01:05:13] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:05:13] Speaker A: 20 years old. [01:05:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Unless they're like, you know what, Zach Eddy, we liked what we see. You kind of in that mold as a big. His nice touch around the rim, good at filling. Just like screening. I think he's really good at that. Really impressed me at fiber 19. So shout out to him. But not on my list. Omax was on my list. Some other guys are honorable mentions for me was Tyrese Samuel, CBL player of the year, I think this past year. The Canadian player of the year. I thought he was really good this past year. He's like a. He's not like the bang to bang big, but he's like a sort of like a power forward. I think he can rebound really well. Some other guys. Wiggins. [01:05:52] Speaker A: Wiggins. [01:05:53] Speaker B: I will always hold a spot if Wiggins wants to come play for the national team. I just don't see it, to be honest. But hopefully Emmanuel Miller is another guy that I like. Leonard Miller might be another guy. They've obviously been watching his development very closely. Had him at the FIBA Maric Cup. And Charles Beniako, another name that I like. Another big, like, if you need to reassure. [01:06:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:06:17] Speaker B: He's playing in the G league right now like that. Some other guys I want to shout out. Jackson Rowe, I thought he was really good, but shooting guard, that. That. That guard depth is kind of tough right now, so. And then I have some other high school guys, but I'm not going to mention. But Ben Matheran is also like, honorable mentions. But my problem with Ben is like, I just don't see, like, what role he fits that's not already covered on this national team. [01:06:40] Speaker A: So what does Shaden do better? Shoot. [01:06:42] Speaker B: I think Shadyn can, like, space the floor. Not shoot, but like, like attack closeouts. [01:06:50] Speaker A: And yeah, it is interesting. It'll probably come down to one of those too. [01:06:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it could. But to me it's just more like Ben will need like, the ball to, like, do get an ISO, like from time to time just to get into the floor, running the offense, that kind of stuff. I don't think she didn't like, really needs that to. To get things going for him. But who knows? Like, we could name all these guys. Someone from the Olympic core might not even be part of this 20, 28 roster. Right. Things could happen. [01:07:16] Speaker A: These guys. Yeah. Contracts come up, injuries come up for sure. I think most guys will want to play, just given the stakes and everything, but there will be things that come up and different guys will have to sit out. [01:07:26] Speaker B: You talked about the stakes. How important is this Olympics? [01:07:29] Speaker A: Yeah, like in the book, I end kind of talking about the importance of this. And you know, an MVP type player doesn't come along often. For Canada, it's been 20 years from Nash to SGA. So of course, given the developmental infrastructure, everything we built up, we hope and we have good reason to believe that it won't take another 20 years, but it still might take 15, it still might take 10. And given that, like you just. This is potentially SJ's last Olympics in his prime and you don't know how long these guys are gonna play. And given all that, I think this Olympics is huge, man. Like, I should also mention Team USA won't have the best team that they've ever had because guys like KD and LeBron and Steph will be over 40 years old at that point if they are even playing. So this is Canada's best chance they've ever had at winning a gold medal and they need to take it very, very seriously. They need to do everything possible. And yeah, I mean, you can't say they need to win a medal because these competitions are just so cutthroat and there's so many good teams, but they need to put themselves in a position where they have as good of a shot as anybody. [01:08:43] Speaker B: Yeah, we haven't heard much too just about Cody Herbert and like what he's looking. He hasn't. I think they release a press release, but he hasn't really spoken to the media since the announcement. I do know that they had. He was in training camp during the FIBA Maricup stuff and I know they had a coaches retreat around that time. But like, what do you envision for him in terms of like the coaching style and just like what his expectations might be for this team and like obviously we, our roster might be completely not even close to what he's thinking. [01:09:16] Speaker A: Right. So no, I don't think it'll be that far off. Yeah. Yeah. But I think like, I got to talk to Gordy for this book before he was hired as the head coach. And a couple things stand out. One is like the passion. You know, he's applied for this job three times. He was the runner up up when Leo Rotens got hired and he was the runner up when Nick Nurse got hired. So this is third time's a charm for him. He finally gets the job. But this is a dream job for him. Like he only ever wanted to play for Canada growing up and now he got in. So I'm sure there is an extra level of passion there where he wants this as badly as everyone. I, I also think talking to him, a big core tenet of his coaching. Like, I can't say how they're gonna play exactly, but he said like, it's all about adapting your players. So I think that's how you can imagine it. So again, if they have a guard heavy roster and they lack bigs, I imagine them playing up tempo and really fostering the style play to the roster they have. If they have all these options that we're kind of outlining where they can play a bunch of different ways, then yeah, I mean it'll, it'll be interesting to see which way he goes and how what he kind of leans into. But definitely adaptability is a big thing for him. And also adapting and listening to your players is a big thing for him. And the last thing I was going to say is the loyalty factor. If you look at even for example, the coaches that he brought on his staff, loyalty was big for him. And I know that for sure the guys who have been giving it with Canada basketball year after year have a presence on that staff. And so I'm sure the same will be said for the players. We don't know yet if they're going to ask for a two year, a three year, a one year commitment. We'll see. But I'm sure that the guys who play as much as possible in the years preceding this Olympics are going to have a much better shot of making that Olympic team. [01:11:08] Speaker B: Yeah, and I feel bad, I'll be honest with you. The position that Rowan Baronson having decide this roster you're going to cut and be guys, a lot of emotions will be involved. It's gonna be tough. It's gonna be tough, man. This is, it's a good problem to have, but it's also just like, it's a tough job. [01:11:23] Speaker A: Managing those relationships is going to be super hard because this is a new era for the national team. You're not cutting one or two guys now. You're cutting potentially some guys aren't even going to get invited to camp. You know, like 10 NBA guys might not make the team. So yeah, it's gonna, it's gonna be very interesting. [01:11:39] Speaker B: Oh, another guy I didn't mention, Ryan Nemhard, sneaky, he can pass the ball very well. Obviously was led college basketball last year in assist. Another guy that might be in the mix, who knows but yeah, exciting, man. Winter window obviously starting up now. Game in Matamy Athletic Center, Toronto, December 1st. Any thoughts coming up for the winter windows? [01:12:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess this is for the real diehards out there, but watching the guard rotation, I was pretty disappointed with Trey Belhes and Marcus Carr at the Americup. I know those guys could play better and I thought some of the. The metal teams had better guard play than them. So I want to see how they kind of bounce back from that. And, and, and those guys are having really good seasons right now in Europe, both of them. So I'm curious to see how they bounce back from that because they are going to be really relied upon to lead Canada and qualify for the 2027 World Cup. Not an easy thing to qualify for. So, yeah, the, the guard rotation for sure. [01:12:35] Speaker B: Yeah, the world is getting better at basketball. Everyone's catching up. And yeah, this is our dream Olympic roster. Let's go through it again. What was your entire roster? [01:12:46] Speaker A: SGA, Nemhard, Brooks, Keyshawn George, and Edie. Off the bench. I got Jamal Murray, RJ Barrett, Brandon Clark, Fundo Cavangeli, Nikhil Alexander Walker, Ben Matherin, and Lou Dort. [01:12:59] Speaker B: And I had Shea, rj, Dylan Zach, Jamal, Kevin Gilly, Lou Dort, Andrew Nemhard, Will Riley, Keyshawn George, Shanen Sharp, and Nikhil Alexander walker. That's my 12. Hopefully I said 12 correctly. I got a bunch of names on my, on my, on my laptop right now going through it. But yeah, let us know, give us your thoughts. Who was missing. [01:13:21] Speaker A: Yeah, whose team's better? [01:13:22] Speaker B: Whose team's better? I think my team's way better, to. [01:13:24] Speaker A: Be honest with you. [01:13:25] Speaker B: But obviously. Yeah, let us know, Let us, let us know your thoughts. Who we snubbed, who you really want to see on this Olympic roster. We'll post something on IG Just going through our whole roster. So leave a comment there and let us know if we're crazy on some of these. Some of these names. But yeah, Warren, I can't thank you enough. Let's plug the book once again. Where to get it? Indigo. CP24 has copies. Where else? [01:13:50] Speaker A: Amazon, your local bookstore. It's called the Golden Generation. Good holiday gift, you know, support Canadian basketball. And thanks for having me on the show, man. Always appreciate it. [01:14:02] Speaker B: Of course. My guy, this has been the Canadian basketball Show. Your go to spot for the latest news, stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. My guy, Oren. This has been the Ben Osmond and. [01:14:11] Speaker A: We out, we out.