The state of Canada Basketball w/ President & CEO Michael Bartlett

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign welcome to the Canadian Basketball show, your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. I'm your host, Lee Ben Osman. This is episode 20 of the Canadian basketball show, Big 20. Time flies by. Feels like just yesterday we started this podcast. I read somewhere that 90% of podcasts don't make it past episode 20, so that's crazy. And I'm. Well, I'm like really happy just to tell you guys that we're here to stay. If you've been enjoying the podcast, leave us a rating. Follow us on Instagram, Twitter TikTok, you can find it below. And just stay tapped in. We got a lot of stuff coming. Global Jam right around the corner and someone that will speak about it on this podcast on this episode for episode 20, a real special guest. He's the CEO and president of California Camp Basketball, Michael Barley. How you doing, brother? [00:00:53] Speaker B: Very well, very well. Hoping I'm not the reason you end at 20. Let's get to 21, right? [00:00:59] Speaker A: We'll get to 21, man. Like I just said, Global Jam coming up. What's been the last few months been like for you and like what you've been up to? [00:01:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it's Global Jam's a labor of love for us. We started it in 2022, first edition, had to take the Olympic year off. So it kind of feels like we're starting to back up again. I affectionately refer to it as my fourth child. I've got three at home and then Global Jam here for Canada, ultimately the last number of months and right up until tip off, we're grinding. It's a brand new event that has bold ambitions. We're bringing teams from around the world, Japan, Brazil, Puerto Rico, two NCAA programs, Georgetown and University of Texas, to compete against our best under 23 athletes. And when I started back in 2021, our board had a pretty big ambition for Canada basketball to be a basketball event organization. We needed more stuff on home soil. We don't get to show out enough in front of our fans. So creating a property that was ours was really important. And there's, there's really a triple bottom line to it for basketball development. There's without a doubt we're already seeing the payoff. Athletes at U23, oftentimes like they age out at 19, as you've had many of them on the show and they're not going to get a shot at the senior team until maybe they're 23, 24, 25 years old. So there's this gap of time where they don't get to really represent their country. And we're filling that gap. But it's paying off too in the sense that like just the women's team that, that showed out at, at America, there was a Global Jam roster plus Sammy Hill on the court for overtime. Right. So that is a really important gelling opportunity and it's paying off in dividends with respect to basketball development from a brand perspective. With our broadcast partner, we're able to tell stories through Global Jam that frankly, we've relied on the basketball community to tell our stories for us for so many years. You're doing a great job of it. But now we also get to tell our own stories with eight broadcasts on national television. Introducing Canada to these amazing athletes that are coming up. We've had five number one draft or first round draft picks come out of Global Jam in the last number of years. Two from the US team, three from Canada, Leonard Miller being one of them. Who's, you know, going to show it for us at the AmeriCup this summer too. [00:03:17] Speaker A: So, hey, that's the first time we heard about that. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Ooh, exclusive news break. [00:03:22] Speaker A: I've heard of some names. [00:03:23] Speaker B: We'll go there. [00:03:24] Speaker A: I've heard of some names. Okay, so we'll put out there. [00:03:26] Speaker B: And then finally like the third bottom line is commercial. Like you need events. That's. I've been in event business and sport events for, you know, 15 years now. And sport business is sport events. They coincide with each other. You need stuff to sell, you need tickets to sell, you need fans to draw, you need eyeballs on the sponsorship assets. So that triple bottom line was important to us. And it's still a grind. I think we're looking at this as a multi year way towards having a successful financial event. But we're really proud of the basketball development and the brand development that has come from it already. [00:04:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm excited for August 13 to 17. We'll talk more about it in a bit. Just for people listening, Bartlett, we're going to talk a lot about, I feel like both the men's, the women's program, how they've been doing. Also just about questions. I don't know if you saw on Instagram we sent, we had people, listeners sending questions, a lot of people. I don't know if we can get to all of them, but I want to make sure we get some of them and let people, I feel like, speak to you directly. Like make sure you know your thoughts so it'll be cool. Yeah, like you hear a lot of stuff in the men's and the women's program. Just questions I've been dying to ask because I feel like we talk, but like, you know, like in this setting, it's like open forum. We could talk about whatever. [00:04:40] Speaker B: Sure. [00:04:41] Speaker A: Global Jam, like we said it. What goes into preparing for an event like that? Like when do you guys start? [00:04:47] Speaker B: It's. It's kind of a365 to be honest. You're. You're all the way into venue booking a year out and then you're into ticket modeling and scaling and then we're team recruitment. So there's a component of it that is always on for the last. I'll call it probably from February onwards. It's really intensive from a marketing standpoint, so the public starts to see more of the work behind the scenes. We're doing a ton on logistics, we're doing a ton on commercial sales. We're starting to seed with media from February onwards. So when we get into these last two weeks, while it doesn't mean we're not working 247 these last two weeks, if we haven't done our job for the last seven months to make sure that we get here, we've already spun out of control. So like the team is fully focused on Global Jam right now. But also think of the things that are happening across the organization at the same time. U15 nationals are happening in Oshawa. [00:05:45] Speaker A: I love going out to that. [00:05:46] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's next week. We're involved in that 3x3 under 23 national championship for the first time is going to be the weekend leading into Global Jam. We're programming that. Then we've got Global Gym at the same time that we've got an Americup camp for the men and some of the senior men, you know, most of the senior men on the NBA side that aren't even competing in America are showing up to that too. So all of a sudden, in the middle of August, we've got five things happening at once. So as an organization, you know, part of my job as, you know, ultimate accountability is to make sure that we've got enough planning windows, that we've done enough work getting into these two week periods. So we're in pure execution mode and there's no surprises and we know what we're doing and we know. And that's honestly, it's kind of the job of a coach of a basketball program. It's just. This is a very different version of it. [00:06:35] Speaker A: Yeah. How did you land on Georgetown in Texas? [00:06:39] Speaker B: We work very closely with the coaches associations for both the men's and women's NCAA to select the team. So it should be no surprise to anybody listening to this pod, the foreign tour windows and the rules associated with that. Who can travel, who can't travel, recruiting windows, all that type of stuff plays into it. But we've actually got a bit of a laundry list now of teams that have put their hands up for the next three or four iterations at Global Jam. They want in. So now we're just working through that list with the coaches associations, but we target programs that have names. I was gonna say, yeah, Duke. Oh, yeah, that's on a list. [00:07:13] Speaker A: What's your favorite part when it comes to, like, just Global Jam? Because for me, it's like watching these talents that, like you said, we watch Leonard Miller because before he got drafted, we watched Emmanuel Miller, his brother. We watched. Who else? Charles Bediako. We had him on the podcast. And just a lot of guys that I feel like are like the next wave of talent coming up. And like, this is. What's. What's your favorite part? [00:07:33] Speaker B: There's so many. There's not one that really stands out, I'll say. The relationships that are fostered through it that I can then reflect on a month later, a year later, two, three years later. [00:07:46] Speaker A: And. [00:07:47] Speaker B: And that goes for athletes, it goes for coaches, and it goes for fans. Like, I think there was a bit of this thing we were trying to buck as an organization as well. Like, I don't know that the basketball community necessarily saw Canada basketball as being capable of pulling something like this off for the community and for the players. This is really player rooted. What I love about it, too, is that it's a simultaneous men's and women's tournament. Before there was public pressure to level up, like the NCAA got pressure to level up women's Final Four, we were already down the path of creating a simultaneous men's and women's tournament where everybody has the same airtime, everybody has the same hotel conditions, everybody has the same training conditions. So this tournament speaks to what we believe basketball is for this country and what the values of Canada are. So that part, I'm proud about it, because people then start to relay back to me, and maybe this is, to answer your question, what it means to them to have their son or daughter on the court in Toronto. For, frankly, for many of them, the first time ever, wearing red and white in front of a home crowd. And that parental response to it, the friends and family response to it, the general fan and basketball Community response to it makes me proud. Now the challenge I'm going to throw to the basketball community is you got to show up. We can't go through all this work to give you a property that's in your hometown, in your backyard and not have you support it. So, you know, the challenge often is just making sure that people really get behind it and show up or else all of a sudden it's going to be too tough to pull off. [00:09:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Like you mentioned to two teams you guys are putting together. I'm more excited for the women's team. Like, let's be real. Sila Avery, I think Jasmine Basco's in there. I got Makir, like so many. I'm like Yvonne Ejum. Like, I'm thinking like these. Like, I think you guys put a press release like two Olympians playing potentially in this. I'm just like, I don't know. It's just very exciting if you guys don't. Well, I had a question for you. [00:09:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:49] Speaker A: Global Jam spelled without a global. Can you tell me. [00:09:52] Speaker B: I forget how that came apart. [00:09:53] Speaker A: Can you tell me how that story. Because I always wonder. [00:09:55] Speaker B: I never had. Honestly. We looked at Tenet or. And this was early 2022, of course, we're launching the. Like, we're hosting the first ever event in July and we're still don't have a name for it in January. And we were working with an agency friend of ours that was doing some pro bono work and we looked at five different iterations and eventually Global Jam jumped out at us without the. I honestly cannot for the life of me remember if it was a conscious reason why it was dropped. [00:10:20] Speaker A: It was a trademarked already. [00:10:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Possibly. I joked at the time that, like the A A in Canada is missing. I don't know why, but we. We just kind of went that way. It does make. You know, when we promo the website. G L O Double check. Bl. Yeah. G L O B L Jam. Ca. Yeah. [00:10:39] Speaker A: The amount of times I've tweeted, I'm like, kaden, let me double check. I did not include the A. What can you tell me there's a homecoming that you guys are also doing? I see a lot of stars coming back to be that Shay's gonna be there. Can you tell me about that? [00:10:48] Speaker B: Yeah, this is fun. We're so. Because we've got one. Toronto tends to be a bit of a gathering spot for our players in the off season, men's and women's. And then coinciding with Global Jam, we've Got a men's camp happening. So the opportunity to bring our senior men's program, the guys that are going to America, plus some of our NBA guys, and then any of the women that we have in town that were Olympians for us in Paris, including, we're going to have our 3x3 women with us as well because they're part of the national championships as ambassadors the weekend before. So it'll be a really fun opportunity on the tip off night, August 13, not just to celebrate the next generation, but our current generation is going to be there celebrating them and cheering them on. So it's. We're just going to have a lot of fun with some homecoming activities. [00:11:32] Speaker A: Yeah. 8-13-17. Where can people get tickets? [00:11:35] Speaker B: Global Jam CA without the A. [00:11:36] Speaker A: Hey, tapping guys. Hoping my whole team will be out there too, you know, covering it. Teams that are going to be there, Canada, us For the men's side is going to be Georgetown. I'm really excited about that because I think they have some. Thomas Serber who just went in the lottery, he was at Georgetown last year. They got Malik Mack, who was a Harvard guy. Him and Xavier Lee might go, you know, head to head as a little rivalry potentially. Brazil and Puerto Rico on the women's side, Brazil and Japan. Japan on the men's side and then on the women's is Texas. Yeah, of course. So a powerhouse team, but yeah, I'm really excited for it. Switching topics, new head coach for both the men's and the women's national. Sir, can you tell me, just like, why was there a need for, for a new change and what went through that whole process? [00:12:18] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, Steve, who you had on the show on the women's side and Rowan on the men's side have done, you know, a pretty introspective look into the program, what we needed as we prepare for this next quad. Right. So we talk about everything in four year periods. But I think, you know, Denise Dignart, who just retired as the GM of the women's side used to have a really good saying like, it's not every four years, it's every day for four years. So on the men's side, it was assessed certainly that there was a prioritization of so much Canadian talent that is in coaching right now. What can we do perhaps to be more reflective of that Canadian talent on our own bench? And then when Rowan identified and he talked about this in the, in the media too, if we're going to be selfish, it has to be somebody who understands how to win at fiba. It has to be somebody who understands, you know, national team programming. It has to be somebody who has been around NBA context, and, boy, wouldn't it be great if that person's Canadian. There was one name on the list that checked all those boxes, and that was Gordy. And it worked out well for us that Germany didn't extend his contract, so he was available. And, you know, conversations casually started and. And then, you know, to the point where when, you know, this was after Jordy had identified that he wasn't going to return Gordy, boom, boom, boom. Hits all the list. Let's start that conversation and go. And move pretty quickly in that respect. Steve, certainly. And he shared the wide and deep process. That's our podcast. [00:13:53] Speaker A: Yeah. If you want to know every. Every candidate that was in the mix. [00:13:56] Speaker B: Shout out to Steve. Yeah, there was a lot of work done. And yet again, Nell kind of presented herself, like Gordy as this unicorn. Like, what if somebody that looked like w capacity, NCAA capacity, winning in fiba, you know, and is a coach of coaches, which Gordy is too. What if we could find somebody like that and then, lo and behold, now becomes available. So good things happen to good people and programs. I think both Rowan and. And Steve, you know, were pragmatic in their process and making sure that, you know, we were selfish in what we were looking for and didn't settle and in both cases, had to move to a degree, laser quick. Because when Nell all of a sudden became available, that's the unicorn. Go get it. When Jordy tells us he's not progressing or renewing, you've got a small window of time. And we had heard, actually that Gordy was talking to some other team, so we attacked. And, yeah, in both cases, we turned out with the right people, we believe. And, you know, I think Nell, already in her America debut, has proven to be an excellent coach. And we're excited to have Gordy join us officially in the summer of 26. [00:15:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Talking about Gordy Herbert. Haven't heard much since the announcement. I feel he's a kind of quiet guy. You know, that's his own thing. I'm guessing you've had conversations with him. What's kind of like maybe like the first few months look like from your point of view and like, what he's been doing? [00:15:23] Speaker B: Yeah, he's. Well, listen, he led players, right? Yeah. And he led his Bayern Munich team to the championship. So what's he been doing? He's been winning. I'm all right with that. Time spent and, you know, him and Rowan is spending a lot of time together, starting to put the bench of assistant coaches together. We're hoping to be able to make that announcement prior to this little camp that we're doing in mid August. So again, we've been prioritizing Canadians who are talented in various contexts. European, NBA, ncaa, you know, pedigree too. So ultimately, Gordy's been spending a lot of time on starting to put his bench together of trusted, trusted officials. And. And the reality is it's going to have to be a deep bench because we've got November and February windows and you've got summer windows and you've got different availabilities for and coaches across those realities. So you can't just hire three dudes to sit with you every single time. In fact, Gordy can't even officially join us as a head coach until next summer. Right. So as a program, the way that you put your coaching matrix together is very similar to how you put your athlete matrix together. It's not one set group that rides with you for four years. It's a combination of people. [00:16:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm throw you a question. I don't know if you can answer this, but during the whole process between Gordy, obviously another name was all. Jama was also another candidate. I don't know if you can confirm that, but in terms of that, do you like. Do you see potentially him being. You talked about assistant coaches. Do you see him potentially being someone that might be interested in being part of Canada basketball even though he didn't obviously get the head coaching position? [00:16:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I would hope. Listen, and. And without depends when this airs August 5th. [00:17:04] Speaker A: All right. [00:17:05] Speaker B: It'll be a bit early. What I can say is we did prioritize Canadians on our bench. Gordy was very passionate about that, as is Rowan and myself. We are also prioritizing people that understand NBA context, FIBA context and winning. So, yeah, Jim is a perfect candidate, know, for our program. And I think the one thing that I've appreciated about somebody like Jama, somebody like Nathaniel Scott Morrison, they've grown up in the system, all through the system. Like I worked at MLSE when, you know, I entered MLSE just as JAMA was exiting as a community sport development person to then go work, you know, globally for the NBA. So this is somebody that has been in various contexts of basketball, just like Nathaniel Mitchell, a skills coach who has now graduated to, you know, he's been a head coach for us in our, in our windows context. Scott Morrison, another example of somebody who's gone overseas. Gonda and or you know, G League gone over to Australia one in every context, somebody like these guys that grind it out. And this is something I think Gordy has shared. He really, really respects people that demonstrate commitment to their country. And by doing all these things, these coaches have certainly done that as well. [00:18:27] Speaker A: Yeah. I want to ask you about some maybe assistant coaches, like Canadians, you can comment or not, like, obviously, but some guys that maybe were part of like Canada basketball and like maybe there are. Maybe they are. They're not. Guy like Dave Smart, obviously, he's. He's a guy that's well known. Guys like Roy Ryan. I think he just took the Jordan job. [00:18:46] Speaker B: Yes. [00:18:46] Speaker A: Jay Tren, obviously now with the Dallas Mavericks. Is there urgency to get some of those guys that like kind of like were part of like the early buildings of like Canada basketball played crucials in some of these players lives. While they're coming up, what are your thoughts on maybe some of those names? And like, obviously, because I, I'm bringing up these names because like people reach out to me. [00:19:04] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. [00:19:05] Speaker A: Where are these guys at? [00:19:07] Speaker B: Yeah. I think if we had our way, athletes and coaches, everybody who's Canadian and has contributed to the system would find a way to stay in the system. The reality is we don't have enough roles, we don't have enough spots. It's just the cruel reality of sport. What I can say is knowing that this comes out August 5th, we should have a Dave Smart announcement for you real soon. Connected to Global Jam. [00:19:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:19:31] Speaker B: So head coach could be somebody that gets reintroduced to. You know, I think even creating Global Jam is another opportunity for us to bring more coaches into the fold and give more reps. It's not just November, February and summer windows for our men and women. We are creating our own windows too. So yeah, I think anyone who has contributed to the program, I'm a big believer we have to honor our history, but we also have to recognize that opportunity needs to be afforded to the next gen. So what I want to make sure is we become an organization that welcomes everybody who's been a part of it, but then is also very clear and real about what people's opportunities are based on what we're trying to achieve. So as the president CEO, I have to be pretty laser focused on making sure that our ambitions, our strategies, our tactics aren't just articulated by me. They have to be articulated by our sport leaders, by our business leaders. Because people deserve real. Right. They will respect real. We can't dance around truth if there's no spot for you, there's no spot for you. And this is why. So we got to be real as an organization more and more as we go forward because there's going to be more and more people that want to be a part of it and there's just not going to be room for everybody. That's the harsh reality of sport. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Yeah, a lot of good coaches coming up like we talked about. I feel I'm going to have more questions about that probably later on. But I want to ask you too, because obviously Steve Rowan, capable of like running, doing their own thing. Right. How involved are you in like that day to day process? Do you try to stay out of it and like let them, like, obviously they have a good handle on it. What's, what's your involvement like? [00:21:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm. I was not hired and if I ever pretended, the board would have let me go a long time ago. I was not hired to run basketball. I was hired to run the organization, though. And what does that mean? Certainly the board was clear from a business perspective and turning ourselves into a basketball event company. They wanted me to spend the lion's share of my time on that. And that worked very well based on my experience and what I had done with MLSE and other organizations. So I was very comfortable in that space. But what I also had to do organizationally and CEOs have to do this in any organization is to establish clear ambitions and culture. And what comes from that is time spent with my basketball people. And like, what are we going to stand for? Communication is a big part of it. Ambition is a big part of it. What competitive advantages do we need? This is where I do spend most of my time with them and very early on learning a lot about, like, what didn't we have that the top five programs in the world have? And it all boiled down to competitive advantages, which meant it all boiled down to money. And if we understood what those competitive advantages cost and could unlock if we deployed them the right way, then I could at least work with the business people in the organization to go hunt that money for that purpose. So the way that we train now, the coaches that we hire now, the number of coaches that we have in a training camp environment all the way through to the way that we travel, men and women equally and the way that we stay in hotels, men and women equally, all the way down to our age group teams, that those were shifts that we made in our spending philosophy because we believed, based on examples from around the world, that's what happened in winning programs. So my Time with Steve, well, Denise at the time, Steve now, and Rowan all the way through is prioritizing those competitive advantages. I can't say yes to everything. We can't hunt and be successful for every, you know, apparently. What's the, the rumor that USAB spent 15 million just on hotels for Paris. Our budget is $15 million for a year. So that's, you know, a bit out of this world. [00:23:36] Speaker A: They're different, though. [00:23:37] Speaker B: They're different and they're allowed to be different. And we're still nipping at their heels like we're coming. We won't have to spend that much money to beat them in la. I promise you that. Yeah, I love this stuff. So, like. But my job is to understand the correlation between the competitive advantages and the expected return on investment and then how we go with our business people, but then also with Steven Rowan to go find that money to make them happen. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Yeah. After the Olympics, you did an interview with Michael Grange for Q and A. You said you're gonna take some time just like to sort of like assess where Canada basketball's at, where it needs to be. I feel like it's almost been like a year now since that. Where do you feel like cannabis? What is that? [00:24:18] Speaker B: I was. It took me quite some time actually to get over the disappointment of Paris. I'm not going to hide it. I don't hide it. We expected a lot better from ourselves, but man, single game basketball, single game sports is tough. It's cruel. And you know, we recently unveiled, not to get all strap planning on you, but we recently unveiled like a two pronged ambition. Okay, best in the world and best for Canada. But what I do admit to people, we're not the only sporting organization or basketball organization getting out of bed every day with the ambition to be best in the world. There's always another team that you're playing. What we can control daily, though, is best for Canada. And I do believe at those Olympics we captivated the country at the right times at certain moments where we could and will be the sport for the next number of years that can be the best for Canada, can give Canada a reason to be proud. So I, I am proud of how we handled ourselves in Paris. I wanted more, I expected more. In that same interview, Michael asked me, you know, did you set the expectations too high? No. Ask any. Like, you're not going to stand up in front of a group of athletes and say, we're just going to be happy to be there. No, we're going to win something. We have a Phrase around the office, like, being in is no longer the win. We're not going to celebrate qualification. We are a qualified basketball nation. We have to be in every tournament. We have to be in every tournament to win. It was actually Melvin Azim a few years ago when we were talking about qualifying for the Olympics and we had to do this, this and this, the World Cup. He's like, you know what would qualify us for the Olympics? If we win the World Cup. So why don't we just talk about winning the World cup rather than qualifying for the Olympics? Light bulb. So, yeah, I'm kind of all over the place on the answer. But it, it did take me a while to get to the point where Paris is now fuel for la. I genuinely have my feet hit the floor every day picturing the next where were you when? Moment in Canadian sport history in Los Angeles when we go do something that the world will never forget. [00:26:35] Speaker A: I've talked about on this podcast. Like, I can tell you where I was when Canada beat USA for bronze in a World Cup. [00:26:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:41] Speaker A: At a Spain museum watching, like, I was supposed to take pictures of like Messi's jerseys, but I'm there watching double overtime. I'm watching overtime, watching like that crazy game. Shade and Dylan Brooks do their thing. Like, yeah, see, like that's. I see when you say, like, where were you? Moment that I think that's important for a lot of people. [00:27:01] Speaker B: I think it's important. I think the country deserves more of them. They tend to happen through sport. I could tell you, you know, 10 on my fingers and they're all sport related. Where were you? In moments in my life. And I just, I want our program to be the one to deliver the next one. And I truly, when I look at the trajectory of our program right now because of the lessons that we learned in Paris and just even, like, let's, let's even kind of isolate even Shea and Lou this year. Like, how much did they learn about winning this year? [00:27:38] Speaker A: Right? [00:27:38] Speaker B: How much will that help their teammates in Canada basketball in the right context at the next time? How much did Delaney and Sila in that bronze medal game at the America learn about winning with that unbelievable pass and bucket? How much is the program learning from losing as well? Like, we're not going to win every game, but we sure as heck better learn when we lose because when it counts, we need to win. The country deserves it. Our program needs it. [00:28:07] Speaker A: We've talked about Steve Bauer promoted to gm. His journey to me is kind of cool because like, esports, I Covered esports. Esports and then spent I think over a decade with Canada basketball. Now the general manager and vice president. So far like obviously he's been in the job for like about a year. Ish. Almost close to a year. What's been your thoughts on kind of like how he's, he's done. Obviously he was an interim title and then promoted. [00:28:29] Speaker B: Yeah, really, really, really enjoy working with him and, and getting to know him more over the last six, seven months in this context. He, you know and it said I talked to him most recently at the U19s. You know you can't take the coach out of the coach. He's, he grew up as a coach but he's a very, very effective administrator as a result of his coaching mindset. Coaches need to know when the, it's the right time to push a button, when the right thing time to say something, when the right time just to stay quiet and let the players do it. And he's learning that with his own staff even and his own coaching staff and I think you know he, he laughed. He, he could probably even be a, a bit more bold in like inserting an idea that he has that he's seen work because of his coaching pedigree. But he is a truly seasoned communicator and that's what I value as a core value for this organization. We are going to have to deliver tough news more often than we deliver good news because there's always less spots available than people trying out. We're going to have to set expectations, we're going to have to establish protocols and process and Steve is very, very seasoned at communicating good and bad news, tough news and, and thought provoking discussion. He's good at instigating that too. I've been very impressed with him for sure. [00:29:50] Speaker A: Rowan Barrett, let's talk about him too. I seen him at summer league, busy doing his thing. What are your thoughts? Obviously he's been in the job for a while now but you came in in 2021. I'm guessing your guys work relationship. Can you talk me through that and like what's been your thoughts on what he's doing? [00:30:02] Speaker B: Yeah, like it was, it was a, I think he'd admit this too. It was a feeling out exercise at first. Like I got hired to be the CEO in March of 21 shortly after the loss in Victoria. Glenn Grunwald, the CEO at the time pulled me aside and said I'm, I'm hanging it up. I said what? [00:30:25] Speaker A: It's always around though. [00:30:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and by design Like, I'm like, you can't go too far. But the board had, had decided that there was a succession plan in place which, which certainly was, was nice to hear. But you know, Rowan and I are interaction. Up until that point I was just doing business, wasn't spending any time, you know, with the basketball folks other than, you know, being there to support them and cheer them on. So yeah, like we, we came to an understanding pretty quickly. Like, I don't want to say anything, but yes, I want the programs to have whatever they need. If we can present it in terms of a competitive advantage and really understand what it means. I'll spend 24 hours a day, seven days a week hunting the resources to make it happen. And in return, I, I need you to have a fire in you. I need you to expect the best. I need you to make sure that we have the guys showing up and that we, we can recruit the best coaches. Like if we're going to try to deliver all the competitive advantages while you can't promise the win, you never can. I need to make sure that we have no excuses. So my ask of him was like, we're going to enter a world where you're going to have everything you asked for and I'm going to expect no excuses. And then we're going to let the basketball be the basketball rather than, I think what has been a handcuff for Canada basketball in the past, which is the basketball was the basketball. But we also weren't able to play our best basketball because of this and this and this and the. Because ofs have kind of disappeared. Yeah, we'll lose a game, fine. But it's not because we didn't see an opportunity or hunt an opportunity or give ourselves a resource. Every once in a while you're just going to lose a basketball game. Now that in and of itself sounds like an excuse we should win more than we lose. But good news is we do now. [00:32:20] Speaker A: You talked about it too. Just like the resources, I feel like it's grown maybe. Can you touch on that? And like what's that? Like sponsorships, all that kind of stuff. Is there investment pouring in now? Like what, how would you describe that landscape? [00:32:34] Speaker B: We were, you know, pre pandemic, you got to take those pandemic years out because they're a bit of an anomaly. But pre pandemic it's a nine and a half million dollar operation. In our Olympic year It was a $16 million operation. So that's a pretty aggressive growth and effectively a quad, a four year cycle. [00:32:53] Speaker A: I could borrow a million. [00:32:56] Speaker B: And I'll tell you as I tell the board, every new dollar we brought in got put back into basketball. We grew our revenue by that much and our expenses by the same if not a little bit more. We are still an organization that celebrates breaking even. That's a good year. We are still an organization that could use more investment. Where is the growth come from though? It's come from commercial properties like you know having a global jam, having broadcast partnership, having more commercial assets to sell partners like Sun Life and Gatorade and not to you know I'm turning this into a brand. I love it. [00:33:34] Speaker A: I think people want to know this kind of stuff. [00:33:35] Speaker B: Nike like they've all rentals ca. These are all organizations that see what we stand for and are also as energized about our trajectory and their invest. That's what listen who does it better than the Raptors and Toronto Maple Leafs? And I learned watching that for 10 years in that organization. Brand partnerships fuel your resource base. So we significantly grew our capacity there. We've also we pretty much flatlined in government revenue only because that's the way government is. Like we flatlined hockey slide like every soccer, swimming. It's. You're not going to hit the podium on government dollars alone. You're not going to grow your base by growing government funds. So the other channel for US2 channels is in our domestic programming. [00:34:29] Speaker A: We've. [00:34:30] Speaker B: We've benefited from pretty significant membership growth in this country in the game of basketball. Participation continues to spike. More members into the system, more registration fees. Some of that works its way up the ladder to Canada basketball as well under the national member model. And then the third one is donor programs. We've actually been had benefited from very generous donations from people that care as much about this game as we do as you do as our players do and they want to make sure and we've taken some of these competitive advantages discussions to them and said like hey we need X to do Y and a donor can make that happen if they understand the why and feel connected to the outcomes. And we've benefited from having some very generous people do that too. [00:35:17] Speaker A: Yeah, that's big time. You talked about like the growth of the game is it's evolving right in Canada. How much do you think four Canadian NBA finals all like having important roles. Want to get your thoughts Shay Just had. I feel like one of the greatest seasons. Probably the greatest season. [00:35:32] Speaker B: I don't know if it's one of. I think it's the greatest by far. [00:35:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Might be the greatest basketball season. [00:35:37] Speaker A: What are your thoughts on Shay's run? And then seeing 4k in the finals there. [00:35:41] Speaker B: There was a few pinch me moments in the finals. Like, you know, you watch a game and in the last four minutes of quality time in a competitive game, there's four Canadians each having the ball in their hands and a fairly regularly pace. Yeah, that's like, that's, that's new, right? Like, that's something that I think everybody could feel and see. And also we could look at those four guys and be like, and they're all running with us. Like, it's not like, boy, I sure wish one summer they'd, they'd play with us. Like, that's our core right there. So, yeah, that, that was, there was some, some proud family moments watching them and then also talking to their families. Like, I, I don't talk to the, the athletes all that often. That's not really my job. I do talk to the families quite often and feeding off of their joy and pride. I was just talking to Claude Nemerhardt on the walk over, like, what that meant for him. The highs and the lows of that. You know, it just, it's been really fun to watch our players, men and women, show up on international stages. But then the biggest North American basketball stages to the point where, you know, they're now almost being talked about by, you know, American media is like, what's going on up there? Like that, those, those threads were fantastic at that time. And listen, there's Canadians that have done very well and won championships before too. But like, that was a culminating moment with four dudes on the court at the same time for most of that. [00:37:14] Speaker A: Series and all having like, moments. [00:37:17] Speaker B: All had moments. All had moments. It was great. [00:37:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Switching topics to just fiba, America, men's. How important is Canada basketball treating like this upcoming tournament? Because I feel like years in the past, the US I don't know if they take it that serious. [00:37:30] Speaker B: They don't. [00:37:31] Speaker A: They know how important. [00:37:33] Speaker B: Well, it's not that they don't take. [00:37:34] Speaker A: It serious, but you know, this, it doesn't really mean much to them. [00:37:37] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's an interesting tournament. The women's one, at least the winner of the women's one got an auto birth into the World Cup. I'd love for them to do something like that with America's. I got myself on the Americas board now, so maybe I'll, I'll. [00:37:50] Speaker A: We have some questions about that. [00:37:51] Speaker B: I'll start politicking on that. How seriously are we Taking it very. But probably not in the way that you're thinking. November and February for us is an opportunity to go 40 in World cup qualifying before the NBA guys rejoin us next summer. You're going to see a roster that is predominantly built from the guys that we're going to roll with in November and February because the America gives us a one week cohesion experiment to make sure that the system works. [00:38:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:29] Speaker B: And that's going to be important. There's going to be a smattering of some up and coming NBA guys that we see as part of our pathway, perhaps even part of our World cup pathway in specialist roles that we'll get some looks at as well. But it's going to be made up mostly of the guys that need to go four and oh for us in November and February. [00:38:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's important. Continuity is such a huge thing, especially in tournaments. Right. [00:38:55] Speaker B: It's a chess game. FIBA is a chess game. And your roster manipulation through the various windows is a strategy. You're not just like, hey, we'll roll with who we got. [00:39:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And this is the most like time you're gonna have probably in camp. Right. Outside of like. Like summer's usually the most time guys are in town. Right. Everyone's working out at Humber College not. [00:39:13] Speaker B: To give the best basketball in the city right now. Right. [00:39:17] Speaker A: What's the process though? Like you kind of touched on. You want to sprinkle some Canadian young talent. [00:39:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:21] Speaker A: What's the process in getting those guys suiting up? And I don't know if you can tease some guys. I've heard some names, so I don't know if we're on the same wavelength on names that we've heard. [00:39:31] Speaker B: But you've heard them. They're probably right because you hear the right stuff. But ultimately, listen, some of it comes down to to Gordy and Rowan game planning rosters as far out as next summer. Who do we want to see a little bit more of? Who haven't we seen in our system at the senior team environment? We've seen a lot of guys at senior now. So if a guy hasn't really played for us in senior, there's a prioritization right now just so that we can see what he might be for next summer into the World cup window in 27. Ultimately, what I can tell you too is whether or not a guy is even competing for an America spot. Our NBA guys are all invited to be in Toronto with us that week. They're going to be around our coaching staff is going to be around. Whether or not they're getting runs up and down on the floor, yet to be determined. Insurance is a big factor in that. In that case, the old game of FIBA and NBA insurance, but they're going to be around. So it was very important to our guys to make sure that this summer, even though it's technically an off summer for our main corps, that they were together and around the environment to set the tone. [00:40:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Talking about just some of those guys. I don't know if I should say some of the names that I'm hearing, but in terms of like, what's the process to just talking to these guys and getting them. Obviously it's very close to camp. Right. For their season, training camp. What's that conversation like? [00:40:57] Speaker B: Well, you referenced, you saw Rowan running around summer league doing his, doing his thing. That's the thing he's doing. Like ultimately, listen, Rowan, Rowan hits the road and talks to guys throughout the year. Talks to the agents, talks to the teams. And not just him. We've got friends of Canada basketball that help us with that too. But yeah, a big part of it. One, you got to look at guys contract situations. Two, you got to make sure that our relationship with the player is paramount to everything. So every conversation starts with the player. The player. Interested? Yes. No, if you're interested. Do you want me to talk to your agent about it? And Rowan will have that conversation. Do we need to talk to your team about it? Just to make sure they're comfortable. Rowan will have those conversations too. Or the agent and Rowan will have those conversations. So it does all come down to the relationship with the athlete though. That has to you, you do not talk to a team. You do not talk to an agent. Rowan's, you know, really passionate about this and as is Steve as well. Before talking to the player, the relationship has to be with the player. And that's a two way respect thing. [00:41:59] Speaker A: Yeah. You mentioned Leonard Miller. Yeah, that'd be great. It'd be great. And I can say when you're talking about it, I remember being at hoop summit few years back. Ron Barrett was there. [00:42:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:09] Speaker A: Chatting with him. So like the relationships go deep. You know, I've heard on another brother too might be in the mix. So I, I don't know. [00:42:15] Speaker B: That'd be great too. [00:42:16] Speaker A: So that'd be great. [00:42:17] Speaker B: There's family connections all over Canada. We're big fans of that all over. [00:42:20] Speaker A: What's been like, we kind of touched on like what's been a level of interest from like the young players. Yeah, come like potentially even suiting up and, and playing. I have a two part question but like what's been a little interest. [00:42:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I think everybody sees where this program is going and wants to be a part of it. I think we're, we're in this. Interesting. And Rowan and I were chatting about this because like look, look at what USA Basketball has done most recently. They kind of abandoned their redeemed team core roster, you know, plan and now they're just picking like 12 guys for windows. I don't think we're at that point yet. I think, you know, there is still, there are certainly a handful of guys that make up the core that, you know, like they're in. But there is still a value in healthy competition and you know, being able to say to the guys, and we're doing this on the women's side as well, like there's no role that is guaranteed. Come in and earn and come in your best self and compete and earn. And I think the young guys get that as, as much as the vets do because they're in those situations in their NBA pro environments too. Nothing is handed to them. So we're getting great interest and response from players at all ages, all the way up to like our wiley vets that still want to be a part of this program. And CLA is a real opportunity for sure. [00:43:40] Speaker A: Is it sort of like a requirement like for like a young player to play in this America cup to be considered obviously for like, do you see it as that for FIBA World cup it has been conversation about like that. [00:43:52] Speaker B: It hasn't been that strict. And I think part of that probably comes from the fact that we know we can't have Gordy coaching us until next summer. Is it fair to say to a player, you must start now or else you're out? If our head coach actually can't start until next summer too. So we are self aware enough that you also have to follow that message in every aspect of your organization. And just contractually we couldn't have Gordy coaching for us this summer based on his contract in Germany. So ultimately it would be unfair to be that definitive with the players. But with that said, you know, young players are smart and their agents are smart and they advise them and know like, hey listen, this is also a chance to be seen before anybody else is seen. So some of the young bucks certainly get that. [00:44:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I definitely recommend for, for certain guys to suit up. I've heard names, I've heard, I'm like, it's not like names that jump out you. [00:44:50] Speaker B: Yeah, that I've heard. [00:44:51] Speaker A: But I'm like, I think they'll fit, like, a huge role. [00:44:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:54] Speaker A: Hopefully they'll come out. [00:44:54] Speaker B: Maybe. [00:44:55] Speaker A: Maybe we'll send something out eventually soon. I don't want to unless it's like. I feel like it's still. Like it's still a month away, you know, so. Yeah, unless everyone's in camp and we're ready, like, we're. [00:45:04] Speaker B: We're suiting up. August 11th is reporting day. [00:45:07] Speaker A: August 11th. [00:45:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:08] Speaker A: Oh, that's. [00:45:09] Speaker B: Hey, that's close. Yeah, that's close. [00:45:10] Speaker A: Time, man. In terms of the plan, talking about, like, two prong plan just for, like, LA 2028. What's the goal? I. I know it's obviously winning goal. [00:45:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Top of the podium. [00:45:21] Speaker A: How much are you just, like, thinking of la? [00:45:24] Speaker B: A little too often do I tell the world that we already booked our hotel for la? So where y' all stay? We. We signed the contract last week. [00:45:34] Speaker A: Wow. [00:45:35] Speaker B: And why do I say. I. I don't mind sharing that publicly because we will be there and our teams will be there. LA is going to be a situation where we probably don't want to be in the Village. I think it's the USC dorm. So we. We found a very friendly hotel contract that allowed us to sign now and pay later once we know we're in. But, you know, we got our home. [00:45:59] Speaker A: Let's say it's cheap now, three years ahead of time, booking hotel. [00:46:02] Speaker B: We did. But that's a shift in thinking for this organization, too, and one that I, frankly, I don't even think I told Rowan and Steve until it was done, so that I didn't, you know, derail their own thinking. But, yeah, I feel very strongly that our men and our women and our opportunity in 3x3 as well, and both men and women, too. LA could be a seminal moment for us. I'm not putting the pressure. Our men's 3x3 program is still developing. I'm not being as overt in the pressure of saying, like, I expect it, but I think we're capable of sending a men's team as well to 3x3. And they've expanded the tournament from eight teams to 12, so even more opportunity for us. [00:46:46] Speaker A: Yeah. We kind of talk about Gordy just not being able to be there until 2026. And the staff kind of, like, made up a lot of Canadian guys. Right. Do you expect him to bring his own guys, too? Like, what's that dynamic? [00:46:58] Speaker B: Like, maybe. Maybe one. [00:47:01] Speaker A: I'm guessing because he has A lot of relationships in Canada too. [00:47:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, but that's the thing. Like the people he brings, it doesn't automatically mean like he' he's bringing somebody from Bayern Munich. Like, I think he's got great relationships with Canadians too. And, and I think that will likely be reflected in the bench. He might have a specialty idea or two or a coach, you know, that, that plays a specific role that maybe we don't have capacity for here that he wants. But you know, the head coach certainly has that, that bandwidth if, if he or she wants. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Yeah. A topic that I'm kind of sad. Not sad, but like, you know, like the U19s. [00:47:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:39] Speaker A: Heartbreaking in terms of like the men's team, I honestly feel like we could talk about how that the amount of free throws USA shot in that game against the men. We can go on about that. The women's team, I expected potentially to have a chance to win gold. What was your assessment from. From what happened there? And both. [00:47:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the men's all actually, I'll say I was, I was pleasantly surprised and I think we really saw some standout performances from guys that like oh, okay. [00:48:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't expect that. [00:48:10] Speaker B: This. You're on a trajectory that I don't know that I, I certainly don't know the, the youth age groups as well as our, our program leaders do. But like it was, it was really good to see the team fight in that group. They, you know, you had Jordan on the, on the pod, like what a performance he had. [00:48:30] Speaker A: He's a guy. [00:48:31] Speaker B: What? Yeah. And I think we're looking at him a little differently now as a result of the way that he showed up and the presence that he had and the. That frankly the grit that he showed on the women's side. I went to. That was the first age group tournament that I had been to. Went over to BRNO for the medal round. I talked and I talked to the women at training camp and said good news, bad news situation. Good news, I'm coming. Bad news. I bought non refundable tickets only and flights only for the metal round. So you better be in it. But that's the faith I like that we all had in them ultimately to not win a medal in that. I think everybody is disappointed in nobody more than the athletes and coaches. But I had, I felt for them like you're not, you're not disappointed in them, you're disappointed for them. These are great opportunities for them to learn how to win. But I had somebody from Fee. But actually Andres, the secretary General of FIBA called me the next day and said, mike, like, age group medals or age group medals. The metric for age group is how many athletes on that court can you see playing a meaningful role for your senior team in the next four to six years? And he's like, and because the US is the US their group in the next four to six years, their U19s probably aren't playing senior team for them in the next four to six years. He's like, there was four on your roster that will be. He's like, that's the consensus of Fibo, four women, Avery Sila, Jazz a God that all have a chance to be meaningful contributors on the senior team within four to six years from a U19 tournament. He's like, that's the metric you should carry home to your board. And I said, my board's going to say that. It sounds like I'm just making excuse for not winning a medal. He's like, no, but honestly, like, that is the FIBA metric. So not to single out those four only because I actually think there's. There's some more on that roster that will play meaningful roles. Again, the. The roster configurations, you have to be pretty fluid in fiba. So I think that team has a lot of talent at that age group that is going to propel this country. Not just for LA, but like, I already talk about Brisbane, 32 with that group because that team could be the entire Olympic team. [00:50:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:49] Speaker B: In 32. [00:50:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Speaking about the age group, a lot of questions that I get from people is, and not to like, single out Ramon Diaz, I thought he did a great job. He's a great coach. But some people, like, consider, like, obviously he's a coach. I wouldn't say, like a slap in the face, but like, there's Canadian coaches on the grassroots scene doing a lot with these kids growing up. And like, some of them are like, why don't we get opportunity to coach? You know, what do you say to them that are like, obviously, I think Ramon's a great coach and they did a good job, good job with the Fiber United team this year. But what are your thoughts on just like, that sentiment from maybe like the grassroots scene? [00:51:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, listen, respect it, like to hear it, because it means more people want to be in our program. So that's good. And I think, you know, if you were to ask our program leaders now, they're challenging their own thought processes more in terms of looking at Canada, and this is over the last number of years, a in a shift in our ability to look at more Canadians in the context of these roles because there is more talent than ever. There's never a right time, wrong time. There is a now time. And I think you're going to see, you know, just based on even just what we're going to do with our senior team staffing and how that's going to Translate down into U23, which we'll announce soon. On the men's side, women's has been announced. All Canadian. You're going to see like a real focus on bringing more Canadians to the fold. For sure. [00:52:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Excited. A lot of questions obviously were sent in. Not sure if we'll get to them all, but I want to shout out the listeners. People online sending questions. First question, let's get through some of them right now. First question is from Brian. Average listener follows the King Basketball show sends a lot of DMs. So I want to own a shout out Brian. He's a avid listener. [00:52:42] Speaker B: Brian Cooper is my board chair. I wonder if it's the same Brian. [00:52:44] Speaker A: I don't think so, but he has a question. His question is, is Canada basketball working to ensure Canada hosts future America cup and World cup tournaments? [00:52:55] Speaker B: Yeah, we've, we've signaled to FIBA that we want to be in that loop. I actually think we're more likely to do it at the age group level first. Well, I love that. I think the cost associated with senior team bids is cumbersome. I like flat out the fee to host a senior team America or World cup is not something that the organization itself can handle. Yet there are generally no to low fees for age groups. And I think what we need to do is find some of the right facility partners so that we can start to get into that cycle. Ultimately if we were to bid on a World cup or an America, we would need a co production or like a promoter partner to be the one to take the financial risk because those are significant. Like our friends in Victoria that did that for us in the Olympic qualifying tournament. There's no way Canada basketball itself at that time, even now could have afforded to take that financial risk. And you need great friends of basketball to do it. So good news is for, for Brian, we've also got more friends than we've ever had and people are really interested in, in trying to unlock those opportunities for us. So never say never. Certainly never say never for World cup in America. I don't see it in the next four to six year horizon, but I do see age group is more likely. [00:54:25] Speaker A: So you want to say like anything time Nothing in like the next five years or so. [00:54:29] Speaker B: No. And in fact 10 maybe Feeba's kind of already got the, the event rotation cooked for the next six past that. We have certainly indicated that. That we'd like to be in the mix in the discussion kind of two part question. [00:54:45] Speaker A: Brian also still has another question. I want to get through it. What is Canada basketball doing to ensure the national team have a Canada wide tour playing games in Canadian cities in order to promote and grow the program? [00:54:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:58] Speaker A: Because I've done a few of these. [00:54:59] Speaker B: Yeah, we've done. And we're right now. So we've got nine home soil qualifying games, six for World cup and four for America that we'll have to host between now and 2029. One of the meetings I had downtown today was, was with an organization that has venue partnerships around this country where we're starting to chart out like what does that look like over those nine events. I want to be able to touch East Middle West. So that is, that is part of it. What I'm most excited about. And again the LA Olympics allows us this opportunity. We will execute an east to west pre Paris exhibition series with our men and our women before heading down to la. So you know those Olympic teams. Although on the women's side it'll. We won't have all the W players joining us for all those exhibition games but at some point we will. At some point in the tour all I'm really excited about what the next few years will afford us. Being able to play east, middle and west whether it be qualifier or pre Olympic exhibition. It's. It's time. [00:56:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Another question here. Would you consider an exhibition game versus a team of CBL players? [00:56:15] Speaker B: Yeah. We've talked to. Morial and I are pretty tight and we're always cooking up some ideas. We've talked about it. It hasn't always like the timing of when we're in camp has always been somewhat odd for them. In the summer they're. You know we, we even talked about trying to do it with our America guys coming into camp and then they're going off to their championship weekend. So they're in the middle of playoffs. No coach in their right mind is going to play an exhibition game in the middle of playoffs. But yeah we've talked about it for sure. And something. There's so much symmetry in a lot of those rosters with who end up being our November and February guys that it's something that we want to pull off at the right time. [00:56:49] Speaker A: Another question kind of tying back to what you answered before. But like since you are part of the FIBA America Zone board, do you have the capability to consider bids for North American sites for a future? [00:57:01] Speaker B: Yeah, like it doesn't, doesn't limit us from being involved. In fact, it probably gives me, or gives Canada basketball with me at the table a bit of an advantage to see where things are playing out because ultimately things are solved through relationship and discussion. Nobody's, nobody's bidding on a tournament unless they know that they've got a shot at it. That's 10 tends to be how it works. [00:57:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Question from Eric. Kind of a comment, but I'll read it. It's kind of long winded, but Erica also another huge supporter of the podcast. He says I am not in the GTA and other major cities. My daughter's high school dissolved the senior girls basketball team the last couple years because of lack of commitment. Even though there's enough players on top of that, there isn't many opportunities for my daughter to continue playing basketball year round for teenagers her age outside of school. What steps are being made to encourage and maintain participation for girls in basketball outside the major cities across the country? [00:57:56] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great question. We work so understanding the jurisdictional umbrella of basketball in Canada. We're responsible for the national teams, our member organizations, the PTSOs are responsible provincial and club basketball underneath them. But even that, you know, my biggest fear for the system right now is that it's growing so quickly that there is member and non member club basketball that's happening all over this country. So it's very disconnected. Too much. I'd like to try to solve that in the next, you know, three to four years as well. But you know, to Eric, depending on the province that he's in and the city that he's in, you know, I think provinces are spending more time and energy in making sure that the girls game is being nurtured the right way and that clubs are being encouraged to deliver girls basketball parallel to boys. It doesn't happen enough and doesn't happen in enough city centers. What I would say is escalating any concerns he has of local club basketball. I'm hoping that that local club is a member of the provincial organization. And if that is, you really should take some of those conversations and questions up to the provincial leadership to cite some pains, concerns and perhaps even some solutions that could be deployed into that local market area. We as an organization are hoping to launch within the next 12 months some very specific community based girls basketball programming that won't Just be tied to major and urban city centers and that will be used to inspire continued involvement in basketball for, for young women as well. [00:59:39] Speaker A: Yeah, excited for that. A question here from Matt. What does Canada Basketball plan to do about the increasing cost of basketball? Because hey, this community center, I've said it before on this podcast, they charge money to play basketball. Yeah, Insane. But like, like, yeah. What plans does Canada Basketball just have? [00:59:56] Speaker B: Again, the jurisdiction realities is while we probably get pegged with fixing all basketball problems in this country, we're not in all gyms in this country. We don't run all basketball in this country. But what we can do is with government. And this is, you know, part of the work that I'm also doing parallel to my Canada Basketball job. I sit on the Summer Sport Caucus for national sport organizations. I'm the co chair of the summer one with Suzanne in swimming. And we are looking at the system disconnects that are plaguing all sport across this country, whether it be swimming, whether it be basketball, soccer, whatever. There is too much community sport being organized by people that are focused on the profit center of sport rather than the delivery of sport and the participation of sport. We need to get to the point where you cannot own a club sport license or not for profit amateur sporting license unless you are a organization within the member clubs of your province and sport governance model. Because then you can regulate things like policy, procedure and perhaps even cost caps. Right now people have figured out that sport equals dollars and people can profit off of that. So you can run it as an independent, not for profit organization with a license that doesn't require you to be part of the member club system. That is a government problem that we're trying to address. Ideally, a more connected sports system also allows us to impose some cost controls down the system as well. But there's some other system disconnects that we have to solve before we can get to that point. [01:01:36] Speaker A: Yeah, someone sort of a comment, but also a question. Someone says there's a b. There's a big disconnect between Canada Basketball and a basketball community in Canada. How can Canada Basketball do a better job of uniting? I don't know if you have thoughts on that. [01:01:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think like, honestly, is there a perfect answer to it? No. Is the disconnect Canada Basketball is a loan to fix or is it also the communities to lean in and figure out ways to be a part of Canada Basketball? So if we're going to host events like Global Jam, if we're going to move across the country if we're going to welcome opportunities for people to apply for jobs broadly and change the way that we're recruiting, so on and so forth, then you also have to lean in yourself. Like, I have taken a leadership approach with this organization that we do not own basketball. It would be wrong of us to pretend that we do. But also somebody else in the basketball system also can't claim that they own basketball. We all contribute to it. If we can all move forward, understanding our role towards the bigger objective which is making this the healthiest, safest and best game for Canada in this country, then we can be successful in it. We can be more united in it. But it actually takes two people to unite. So that is a broad statement that the basketball, Canada basketball is disconnected from the basketball community. I want to investigate that more. Like what specifically are we disconnected from and what specifically is the community choosing not to be connected to what we are too? So it takes two. [01:03:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of politics. You probably know it better than me. There's a lot of politics within can basketball or just like in. Just like Canadian basketball in general, you know, politics in. [01:03:23] Speaker B: In any national organization, provincial organization, or even local club. It's. It's the root of all. [01:03:30] Speaker A: Yeah, just follow up to that. Do you feel like a town hall could do something or anything like that where people come express. Because sometimes, like, I'll get maybe like. Like people will feel like, whether it's the grassroots scene, like, you know, like some people that feel like they've been involved with like helping players development, that kind of stuff, want to be sort of like, I don't know. But also like you guys have your own organization and you guys doing the way you guys are doing it. But also like some people want to say, but sometimes it's like you can't get a say from everybody. Right. Yeah. [01:03:58] Speaker B: Listen, I'm. You've probably learned this over the years too. Like, I'll talk to everybody. I'd really like to learn from everybody. But people also have to listen in return. There's only so much that we are responsible for. We've actually at Canada basketball, by even creating a statement best for Canada, have decided to hold ourselves more accountable to things than ever before. That we do have to be considering the health of the game at all levels and our impact on that. But we don't deliver basketball in that community gym. We do not exist without that basketball being delivered at that community gym. Because 10 years later, that community player might end up in junior academy, which might end up in the national team and so on and so forth. So it is all influenced by each other, connected to each other, and stronger by working through and with each other. But it would be wrong. Yeah, it would be wrong to say that whatever's happening in the grassroots is Canada basketball's fault. However, how can we influence better there? Or how can we be more reflective of what the grassroots community is doing and appreciative of what the grassroots community is doing for basketball in Canada? You know, something as simple as when we name a player to the national team, are we shouting out their local club that they grew up in? Maybe we should be doing more of that stuff. Like maybe we should be paying homage to the community, the club, the coaches that help grow that player up. But also we're not pretending that that player only ever plays for us. That player is an NCAA context, is in a pro context, isn't. Whatever. When they come back to Canada, they're choosing to come back to Canada for, you know, that particular window. But yeah, I think there are things that we have to do better, you know, to show respect back to the community that grew them up. [01:05:57] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a question here from limitless Canada. He kind of asked like he feels kind of like Connecticut basketball. Gatekeep, do you feel like that's a thing at all or do you feel like. I don't know if that's the right term or like. [01:06:11] Speaker B: I. I'd love to know an example as to like what. Gatekeep. Yeah. At the end of the day, we choose what players end up on the national team. Is that gatekeeping? Well, that's team selection. Do we purposely keep anybody out, Anybody who is a talented basketball player out of the process? I'm going to guarantee that there's people listening to the pod that are answering yes to that. Yes, you do. Show me. [01:06:38] Speaker A: That happens every time. [01:06:39] Speaker B: Show me. I'd like to know more. We are running our organization and I am setting a tone for organization where we're values based. The best win, everybody has a shot, and you got to live with your performance. Is it working perfectly well? Guess what? There's. There's more people watching from the outside than us watching the other way. So I'm gonna guarantee people don't think it's working perfectly. But I can tell you we lead with our values. [01:07:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Someone asked, how do I get noticed by cannabis? Kind of following to this question. Like, someone asked a question. I think it was kind of a two pronged question, but someone asked about how do I get on for the U16 team. Right. I know there's, I know this information because there's, there's multiple kind of like there's a November kind of camp that happens. [01:07:29] Speaker B: There's open ID camps. Open ID camps happen all over the country in various provinces where our scouts will go to that provincial team, open ID camp and identify a player so then maybe fold into junior academy even in their province or perhaps in Ontario be invited into, you know, Thanksgiving camp, Easter camp, which are more open, runs towards making eventually a U16, 18, so on and so forth. So processes exist. Ultimately the way that our umbrella model happens with national team, provincial team, the provinces are the best way to enter into the system and then be identified as a high potential national team player. We're not the only sports to do that. Team sports rely on provincial sports in order to be feeder scouts effectively for national team programs. We are also soon to launch some digital technology. We're launching more of a, an open source kind of fan engagement platform called Unified Plus. [01:08:36] Speaker A: Tell us about it. [01:08:38] Speaker B: This will be something that is ideal from a fan perspective. It'll be the place that you want to go to consume more cannabisball content. It will be the place even during nationals next week where parents can live stream at the nationals games and their friends and family across the country can as well. Ultimately, we also want to get to the point where there is user generated skill content that you can upload to be seen. We've been working with some tech partners of ours that have done this in various contexts and we think there is going to be a bit of a democratization of the scouting process that as we all know, AI and simple, you know, iPhone tech. You can participate in some drills, have your biometrics scanned and start to identify yourself for the basketball system in this country. That's probably a version 2, version 3 still away from what we're launching originally. But it's the type of stuff that we're talking about. [01:09:43] Speaker A: Final two questions before we wrap up. I know we've been going for a while and you got places to be. What's been the plan to expand youth engagement across the country? [01:09:50] Speaker B: Yeah, this is one of them. You know, as we were talking about the fan, the fan platform, Unified Plus, I, I said this a little while back. Nobody grows up necessarily a Canada basketball fan. You're a Canadian basketball fan or you're a fan of Canadian basketball players. So part of what we have to do is understand that reality, but I think also work our asses off to make sure that we create fans of our program too. And it's being in more communities, it's having programs that while we don't deliver grassroots basketball, we do have some community based programs that we want to partner with our PTSOs to deliver and some brand partners. I think of the opportunity to tell more stories and connect people to the athletes that they revere and having those athletes continually show up to be Canada basketball players. All of that is the secret sauce towards more youth engagement and people when they're on the driveway. Like my, my 8 year old. Not a day goes by where he doesn't recreate Shay's falling shot and then hands behind the head in the Paris Olympics. And he's recreating a Canada basketball moment. And not just because he's my kid, it's because it's the one thing that, that really sticks out for him. So we need to create more of those things so that kids are recreating Canada basketball moments and having that fan connectivity to who we are. [01:11:21] Speaker A: There's gonna be so many moments coming up too. So you guys just gotta stay tuned. You guys gotta watch Global Jam. Like we mentioned. Final question here from Matt. What would Mike's self evaluation be at this point in terms of leading the program? Because I'll be honest before you answer that. And every time I talked about people about you, everyone just praises you. A lot of. There's a lot of talk just about you. [01:11:44] Speaker B: Talk to my mom a lot, eh? [01:11:46] Speaker A: But there's a lot of like, I feel like in the basketball community in Canada, a lot of people feel like you've done a good job in terms of like being a, being a voice. Like we mentioned, like listening to people and all that kind of stuff. What's been like, yeah, what's your self evaluation at this point? [01:11:58] Speaker B: Well, I, I appreciate that. That does mean. Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm hard. I'm hard on myself. I think most people are. I'm still very dissatisfied with where we are, but in a good way. Like there's still so much to do and so many problems to address and solve. And I do admit to people like. And I had a pretty contentious conversation with somebody, a leader in the basketball community a little while back. I was like, whether you like it or not, my job isn't to fix it all at once. Like, that's impossible. My job is to set up the dominoes in a way that when you fix one thing, it knock. It allows you to knock the next down and the next down and putting them in the right order. We've significantly invested in how or increase in how we're investing in our senior team. We still got a gap in how we're investing in our age group teams. That's a problem. We got to fix that. We've significantly improved our PTSO relationships, but the system is still far too connected down to the grassroots level. That's a problem. We got to fix that. We still have far too many commercial assets that are unsold, even though we've sold a lot more than we've ever had. That's a problem. We still got to fix that. So I'd give myself a passing grade, but we're not even close to, like, head of the class yet. Like, we. We got a lot of work to do. I do take pride, though, in the fact that I feel like the basketball community, love us or hate us right now, is at least rooting for us. And I say that when early days at the organization, I said, like, our job is to make sure that anybody that interacts with us, players, coaches, fans, staff, volunteers, outsiders, just watching, says, huh, that looks like fun. I've been doing that my whole life in just social settings and events. And, like, I want people to connect with us and feel good when they do. And I do think we're in the right path there, but there's still a lot more to do. [01:14:12] Speaker A: What's been your favorite part about the job since 2021? [01:14:15] Speaker B: Oh, favorite part of the job. [01:14:21] Speaker A: Wow. [01:14:22] Speaker B: It's. It's legitimately the people. I was actually. Not that I was kissing my boss's ass the other day talking to my board chair, Brian Cooper, who's a tremendous board chair, and we were just talking about the path to la, and he was actually reminding me, he was very kind. Like, remind me to take vacation every once in a while. [01:14:42] Speaker A: Let's say no vacation anytime soon. I just. Listen, I just. [01:14:45] Speaker B: I had a few extra days in Prague. It was fantastic with my. With my wife and partner, and she's. She's amazing. And my family's all in on this ride and, like, we're all enjoying it, but, yeah, it's. It's the people. Like, the 10 years I spent at MLSE were the best time ever, and I met the best people, and I. I didn't think the people could ever be top, but, like, I'm literally in the trench with a group of people right now, fighting every day for something that we believe in. And, boy, is there ever a galvanizing feeling that comes from that. Whether it be the players who, many of whom I can now, you know, consider Friends might be the wrong word, but, like, there's a. There's a family environment that we fostered, coaches, and then the, the amazing staff that I get to work with. And my gosh, the board of directors for Canada basketball is a powerhouse board, and I can rely on any one of them. So, like, the people part is still absolutely the best part of it. But then the favorite part too is. Is also like, the dream still exists. Like, I can see it. I can see what we're about to be. I gotta get better at not taking it personally when other people can't see it or when we hear. No, I still take that stuff kind of personally, but, boy, it's. It's right there and we just got to work a little bit harder and a little bit longer and put in a little bit more work than the other orgs and we'll get it. So I think the fact that that thing is like, right there and can be seen is also a favorite part too. [01:16:14] Speaker A: Think we'll get there. Especially with like, the podcast that I created is just to cover K basketball because I see the, The. The potential in terms of talent coming up. Right. Like, you see it too. [01:16:25] Speaker B: So. [01:16:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Anything else, bro? I kept you for an hour plus. [01:16:29] Speaker B: Oh, that's. That's fine. Thanks for. I, you know, I. In high school, it was like a. I think don't give Mike the mic. So I appreciate you giving me as much time as you did. No, honestly. And, and to you and your listeners, like, you're telling depths of this story of the Canadian basketball story and, you know, a lot of cases Canada basketball story at a level that, that hasn't been told before. And I very much appreciate it. So thank you. [01:16:57] Speaker A: Yeah, Global Jam, like we mentioned, August 13 to 17. Go get your tickets. I'm gonna be there. Marlon's gonna be there. The whole crew's gonna be there. Yeah, we're gonna be outside for Global Jam. It's going to be a. A very exciting time. Excited to watch some of these players, some guys I'll be watching in college and like we mentioned, like, Silas going to be there. Yeah, you got to be there. [01:17:17] Speaker B: Lee's coming is going to be there, man. [01:17:19] Speaker A: You got. [01:17:19] Speaker B: We got more draft picks coming out of this thing this year too, so, like, keep showing up. [01:17:23] Speaker A: Yeah, brother, can't thank you enough. Again, this has been the Canadian Basketball show, your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. And we out.