The world of an NBA agent with Mike Simonetta

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:04] Speaker B: Welcome to the Canadian basketball show, your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. I'm your host, Lee Ben Osman. We got a good guest joining us in the studio. He's one of the few NBA agents from Canada that has quickly taken the league by storm. He's represented over 20 clients in the NBA, overseas, whatever you want to call it, he's all over the place. Most recently also having two of his players win an NBA championship. Another drafted in the first round of the 2025 NBA Draft from Toronto and Life sports agency, my guy, Mike Seminetta. How you doing, brother? [00:00:41] Speaker A: I'm good, man, I'm good. I appreciate you having me out. Big fan of the pod and I know we go way back. So excited to be here. Excited to chop it up. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Excited to have you on the show. NBA season about to start. What's your schedule looking like? People that want to know an NBA agent lifestyle. It's about to start. Obviously, I'm guessing you're making sure your clients are settled in their markets, where they're playing at. What's it look like ahead of the NBA season? [00:01:05] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's obviously an exciting time of year, you know, training camp underway. So all of our NBA clients, you know, in their team markets, going through training camp, preseason getting underway, you know, the last couple of days. So for us it's just you obviously have clients, you know, on all ends of the spectrum, established NBA players, young NBA players trying to find their footing, guys battling for roster spots. So across all the different clients just have an understanding, you know, constantly checking in with them, checking in with the team, you know, making sure they're healthy, making sure everything's going well and then, you know, as games are, are happening, you know, gathering feedback, watching games, being in touch with them. And then, you know, starting next week, really, you know, getting down the road as the, you know, preseason wraps up and the regular season gets started and visiting them and all the same excited for the season ahead. [00:01:47] Speaker B: What's the busiest time for you when you're phone? Is it the draft? Free agency? Free agency is kind of dead. I feel like now nowadays people kind of talk about it. Deals get done beforehand, trade deadline or maybe like, like I said, right before the season starts. What's the busiest time, you would say, or does it vary? [00:02:03] Speaker A: You know, I think it varies. I think this time of year, obviously, you know, you're super busy because you're making sure everyone's getting off on the right track for the season. Obviously draft time, where you're, you know, you might have clients in going through the pre draft process. Going through the draft and you also have clients playing the playoffs. You have some clients gearing up for free agency. So there's a lot of different moving parts around. You know, the spring, summertime and then, you know, throughout the year you're always making sure your current clients are good and addressing anything that comes up with them. And then obviously there's always recruiting and then overall business matters to tend to. So I like to think in this business I think it's a good thing to be busy. So it's definitely always take it as a privilege. [00:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah, my favorite times, the pre draft process. [00:02:41] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [00:02:41] Speaker B: It's very fun just to see you hear a lot of stuff going on during what's going to happen, who's going to get drafted, where, that kind of stuff. Obviously that's kind of what I, I cover a lot, the star, that kind of stuff. But like I mentioned at the top, you had two clients win NBA championship with Oklahoma City Thunder. What was that experience like watching them go through the entire process? I'm guessing you were at that championship night when they won it all. Championship parade, possibly too. What was that whole run like, man? [00:03:09] Speaker A: I mean it was incredible. Obviously having, you know, for us as an agency, it was, it was great because we had clients on both sides. We had Andrew Nebhard and Pascal Siakoum, you know, with the Pacers, and then AJ Mitchell and Adam Flagley with the Thunder. But you know, seeing Adam and aj, two guys I personally represent, like being there, had the opportunity to be there game seven and see them clinch it, obviously it's amazing. It's like as a basketball player that's obviously one of the ultimate pinnacles you can achieve. So seeing them and being able to celebrate with them and attend the parade and be on that float, just seeing the joy and happiness and obviously the culmination of all their work, you know, it's amazing. It's something that even as someone you grew up, you dream about being able to witness that stuff. And so to be an extension of them and be able to celebrate with them is awesome. [00:03:52] Speaker B: What was your favorite moment? Did you get a ring? [00:03:55] Speaker A: I didn't get a ring and I don't. [00:03:56] Speaker B: We gotta talk to Preston. [00:03:57] Speaker A: I don't think I will be getting a ring, but you know, looking for. I'm actually planning on being at the ring night for the Thunders Thunder opening night. So I'll see AJ get his ring. Adam's with San Antonio now, so he'll get it later in the season. But no, it was awesome. It was cool, like seeing them, you know, hold the trophy, seeing them celebrate with their teammates and their family. It was, it was amazing. [00:04:16] Speaker B: Yeah. What was your schedule like during all of it? Cause also during that time, obviously NBA finals, I forgot what day it ended on, but that's like middle June, almost ending of that. That. That year. And then the drafts also happen. [00:04:29] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:04:29] Speaker B: And you have a client going through the entire draft process, working out for teams, ends up in Sacramento. [00:04:35] Speaker A: Yep. [00:04:36] Speaker B: Tell me just about what was that schedule like? Going bouncing from, I'm guessing city to city. You're going pre draft stuff. You're. I'm guessing you guys also do stuff in la, right? [00:04:43] Speaker A: Y. We do our pre draft and off season training in la. [00:04:46] Speaker B: Yeah. So what was that like? [00:04:47] Speaker A: No, it was crazy, man. So obviously game seven happened. So we were at game six, myself and Todd Ramasar, who's the president of the agency, you know, we were at game six and obviously the Pacers won in force of game seven. So we went down to okc, OKC won. So obviously celebrated championship night and then we had the draft that week. So the parade was on Tuesday and then the draft was on Thursday and we had Nick Clifford, who had been invited to the green room, you know, in New York City. So it was, it was a whirlwind, man. Celebrated the championship, then the parade, celebrated the parade that same day, you know, in the evening, took a flight to New York, got into New York Tuesday night, Wednesday, you know, we had all the draft welcome party, commissioners lunch, and then straight into draft night, Wednesday night. So. And then obviously Nick, hearing his name called. So it was a, it was a long couple days, but it was a, it was an amazing couple days. It's all you can really ask for, you know, to be able to have those opportunities as an agent. [00:05:37] Speaker B: Yeah, it's crazy because I remember I was at the draft. Yeah, I didn't see you till the night over until like an hour maybe or like 30 minutes before the jobs. [00:05:44] Speaker A: I got there a little earlier, you know, the day before. But yeah, it was, it was. We were on the fly. [00:05:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. We're obviously going to go through your entire journey from Western University playing U sports to going to law school, becoming an agent, building up your clientele and getting to sit front and center at the NBA draft like we just talked about. But like I said, Western youth sports, basketball. Who are some of the top guys you played against? [00:06:09] Speaker A: Man, you know, we played. You know, I was Doing a lot of watching from the bench. But, you know, my years at Western, man, I think those were some of the greatest years of my life. Like, still, some of my best friends to this day are guys that I played with. So it was an amazing opportunity, just get exposed to that level of basketball. But, you know, that was during the Carlton heyday. They had the Scrub brothers were just finishing when I got to university. Uottawa with Johnny Berhan, Michael African, super talented, obviously your alma mater. Ryerson now TMU with Manny and Adika and JV and all those guys, they were a powerhouse. So those three, I think, were the cream of the crop. They were kind of cut above all the rest of us. [00:06:44] Speaker B: How good was Western? [00:06:45] Speaker A: We were okay. We were kind of always middle of the pack. Always made the playoffs, never made it. You know, I don't think past the OUA quarterfinals, but we were always competitive. We had a couple of good players. [00:06:52] Speaker B: Yeah, because I'm just thinking I was spoiled. I got to watch Ryerson go through their runs. I don't think they really. Jermaine, I'm trying to think. I don't think they really missed out on the final eight, like, runs. [00:07:02] Speaker A: It's kind of crazy. No, they had it rolling. [00:07:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, they had a run. How have you seen, like, esports grow since, like, your time now, seeing a bunch of USports guys get scooped up by D1 programs? What's it like? See that? Could you have imagined that when you were playing? [00:07:17] Speaker A: I mean, I think there was always really, really strong talent in youth sport. I think, you know, seeing youth sport players move to D1, it's almost more of a sign of the overall ecosystem of college basketball. College basketball, where NCAA programs are putting more of a premium on experience, maturity and physical development, where they're now searching different levels, whether it be Youth Sports, NAIA, JUCO, D2. You know, for players who have proven college experience and ability to produce. You know, I think if you go back to the years that I was in college, if you had a Manny Diresso or Dico, Peter McNeely or Phil Scrubb, those guys could have been, you know, those guys could have thrived at high major, you know, NCAA Division 1 basketball. I think it's more just a shift in the mindset of NCAA Division 1 programs. And I think that's permeated down to them harvesting different levels. And I think it's a good challenge for you sports to make things, to make their offering more competitive, to compel players to potentially stay or if they are going to or you're seeing some programs who are more embracing and saying, okay, come to a US Sports school, develop, get your stats, perform, then you'll have a chance to reach a higher level than you could have out of high school. [00:08:19] Speaker B: What's your advice? What do you talk to? Maybe, I don't know if you have a lot of you sports clients or like maybe people reach out to you, be like, hey, D1 programs talking to me, should I go over there? Obviously money's involved nowadays, right? Obviously gonna get paid for that too. And U sports doesn't really pay. What's your advice? Maybe chatting with some guys about the opportunity there and the pros. Because I feel like from what I've heard there's this battle where like some esports coaches love it, some hate it. [00:08:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:49] Speaker B: What are your thoughts on all that and what's your advice when players reach out? [00:08:52] Speaker A: Kind of speaks my overall philosophy, maybe as an agent. I don't think there's one answer for anything. I think it's all situational. It's based on the player, what's most important to him. As you mentioned, there might be some players that have great U sports stats and they've got the physical tools to play at Division 1 level and they might look at, hey, I can make X amount of money, but I know the playing opportunity might not be great. Right. We've seen some esports players who have gone to Division one and they've seen their role, you know, shrink drastically where they're hardly playing. Right. Whereas on the flip side, some guys might prioritize, say, hey, I know I might be sacrificing earning income, but I want to prioritize my player development or the experience I have and prepare myself to play professionally. Right. So I think it all depends on what's most important to the player. Understanding that and then again, having good people advising you. So when you're going into a situation, you have a good understanding of what it's going to look like. [00:09:37] Speaker B: Yeah, just chatting with you, pro answers, you know, like the way you talk. When did you realize, like, I want to do this for a living, man. [00:09:46] Speaker A: You know what, it's funny, a lot of people ask me, like I've been, I was, I, I love playing basketball, but I was, you know, obsessed with like the managerial and the, just the, all the surrounding elements of basketball. I've been, I was always fascinated with, from, you know, 11, 12, 13 years old. Like I was always fascinated by, it's just something like I love reading, I love understanding how the rosters where the players came from, you know, how trades worked, how free agency work. Like, from a young age, I used to. I was always fascinated by being involved in that side of it. So it's really something I always kept in the back of my mind from when I was playing youth basketball to when I was in university playing Western to in law school was always something to help center, you know, my ambitions and my passions. Like I was always trying to chase that. [00:10:28] Speaker B: Was coaching much of an option? Because I know you did time with Team Ontario, Team Canada, AAU with the Northern Kings and also cbo. [00:10:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:38] Speaker B: How did that happen? Tell me about that. [00:10:39] Speaker A: I mean, again, it's just like loving the game. Like, I didn't necessarily see a future as maybe a professional coach or a college coach, like doing it full time, but I love being around the game and gave me great exposure to learning about the game and being around so many players. Right. And I think even as an agent, if you can understand the game and understand, you know, you're not going to have a full insight into the coach's mind or obviously those guys, you know, it's their expertise in their craft. But understanding the game from a variety of different perspectives I think makes me a better agent. And it was, you know, candidly, it was a way for me as a super young person in the space to be involved, like get on the floor, help pass, help rebound, help cut film, help prepare scouting reports. Like, that's all stuff I did when I was between 18 and 23 years old, I think really prepared me for, you know, and grew my knowledge base for basketball. [00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And I also saw that you applied for the Wayne and Teresa Embry fellowship. What made you want to do that? [00:11:27] Speaker A: You know, again, like, I think basketball is an industry that there's not exactly defined pathways and easy entrance points. So it was something that credits to the Raptors they created that really carved out an opportunity and access point to get into a basketball front office. So something I was super interested in applying for and obviously was lucky enough to be a finalist. And even though I wasn't selected to be the year long, being in that cohort of finalists and getting access to that group of people like, you know, Wayne Embry, who's obviously one of the greatest legends in basketball, you know, in North America, like, he was someone that after I met him and I was going through my process of trying to find my way in the industry, like, I would send him emails and he would always reply with, like, thoughtful advice and insight. And that was something like, I always really was super grateful for. And some of his advice and some of the words of encouragement he gave me were like, really one of the, it was really one of the first people who had achieved, you know, success in the industry that inspired me to believe in myself. Like, I can do this. I can, I can create the life I wanted. [00:12:30] Speaker B: You talk about you didn't get it. What's going through your mind when obviously you apply for this. You work hard to try to get it. What was going through your mind when, okay, they went with someone else? [00:12:39] Speaker A: I mean, to me it was, it was still a great experience. Like you got a chance. They had. The way they did is like kind of like an immersive, multi day interview process where like you meet with the front office, you do interview, do presentations. It was this really good experience. Like at that point I was still, I was still pretty young. I was like 22, you know, 20. I think I was 23. I was. And I had, I'd already been accepted to law school, so I was kind of, you know, I, I was blessed to be in the position where I got great feedback, I got great experience, I built some good connections and I was able to take that and help, you know, package up what I did in law school with my off court or, you know, out of non academic, you know, extracurriculars and piece together a resume that ultimately allowed me to make the right connections to get the, you know, get the position I have today. [00:13:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna ask you, do you feel like it was a blessing in disguise? [00:13:23] Speaker A: I mean, you know, you like to think everything happens for a reason. I'm, I'm definitely, certainly grateful for where I'm at now. So, yeah, I'm happy. [00:13:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna say too. Shout out to the guys that are, that have done it. Kareem, obviously, now with the Raptors, he's in it. I seen him at summer league, obviously doing things behind the bench with the Raptors. After that, you go into law school, I believe. What led you to that decision? Because law school. Amen. My parents are still trying. I talk about this podcast all the time. They keep telling me this journalism stuff's cool, it's fun. It looks like you're having a blast. [00:13:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:54] Speaker B: But when you go into law school, my parents want me to be you. So tell me what led to that decision? [00:13:58] Speaker A: I mean, again, it was just, it was just trying again. Like my parents gave me great advice and they were always pushing me to, you know, push as much as I can and same thing as I was wrapping up undergrad, you know, speaking to different people, having the opportunity to have some good conversations with people that had success in the industry in a variety of different, different capacities. It was just an opportunity. Obviously a lot of front office executives, a lot of agents have law degrees. I was fortunate enough I had done well during my undergrad and was accepted into law school. I just felt it would be a good base for me to continue to grow my skill set personally and academically and then also give me an opportunity to continue to grow my basketball network, get experience and go from there. I was looking at a few different things, like potentially being a grad assistant at NCAA Division 1 school with some of the. But it was like if you go to a school like that, you're kind of pigeonholed to one program. And the academic program I would have been able to do wouldn't have been, you know, what I wanted in terms of law school. So I decided to stay in Canada and give me opportunity to continue my education and also spread my wings in terms of getting involved with Canada basketball, Ontario basketball, you know, go visit all sorts of different NCAA schools, get on the road, travel, visit practice, meet with coaches. So it was, it was super valuable. [00:15:02] Speaker B: Did you specialize in anything I know, like. [00:15:04] Speaker A: No, I just did. The program I went to is called. It's a, it's a dual degree program. So you can get a U.S. and Canadian law degree just with the, with the University of Windsor being on the border. So did that. So got an exposure to the U.S. and Canadian law, which was great. And then, yeah, graduated and was able to get the job with Life sports. [00:15:20] Speaker B: So you're crossing the border a lot, I'm guessing too, during that whole process? [00:15:24] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, we would. The majority of the classes where the university wins, but we would cross over and do some American law classes. They had a counterpart university in Detroit. So it was, it was a cool experience. [00:15:34] Speaker B: Do you recommend law school? Because I think a lot of people, contracts wise, is perfect, but also I think you don't even need to be like a lawyer, right, to be an MBA agent. [00:15:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:43] Speaker B: How has that helped you in terms of whether it's negotiating, whether it's knowing, like certain stuff is correct in terms of contracts or whatever it is. How did that help prepare you? [00:15:54] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think certainly, you know, the law background and the law degree, you know, helps in a variety of ways. I think, as you mentioned, like from a peer contract negotiation understanding, obviously, look, as agents, you're graded on the contracts you can negotiate for your clients. It's the most important thing. Our job ultimately is to get our clients paid at the highest level and negotiate the best contracts. So I think from that perspective, it was. It was great experience. And then, you know, from more a personal standpoint, I think a lot of the best qualities of law school is it teaches you how to be an advocate, you know, how to. How to understand information, how to steal information, how to present arguments. So I think those are some of the soft skills that, you know, I carry with me every day in my, you know, in terms of advocating for clients, in terms of understanding how to distill information and position it, whether you're talking to an NBA team or whether you're explaining and things to your clients or recruits. Like, I think some of the soft skills you learned from law school, you know, and even from the discipline you learn, too, in terms of being able to, you know, read through some of those textbooks and read through the cases. [00:16:45] Speaker B: I don't know how you do that. [00:16:46] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. It wasn't definitely, you know, the most fun all the time, but I think it taught me a lot. You maybe from non. Even from non technical, but from building my skill set in terms of being an agent that I think, you know, I take with me every day. [00:16:57] Speaker B: If my pops is listening to this podcast, I doubt he is. He said he was listening the first few ones, and I think he gave up. [00:17:03] Speaker A: I'm sure he's listening. [00:17:03] Speaker B: I'm sure. But that's the reason why I didn't go to law school, to be honest, because it's, you know, the books. [00:17:08] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:17:08] Speaker B: Had enough. You know, what's cool about journalism? They don't, like, there's not really exams. It's not like that kind of stuff. It's like a lot of practical stuff where you're out in the field. So, you know, I was like, you know, you get to write. I enjoy that kind of stuff. Right. [00:17:20] Speaker A: No, I remember my first law school exam was like, constitutional law. You have to memorize, like, all this thing about the constitution. It was like, definitely something I. I don't miss. [00:17:29] Speaker B: Yeah, you got to thug it out. You really have to just go through it. What's the process? You finished law school? What's the process in terms of trying to work with an agency? [00:17:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:39] Speaker B: I'm guessing you're probably reaching out to a bunch of people. What's your advice? Hey, I'm building up a lot of relationships at King Basketball scene. I'm tapped in with the players coming up, all this kind of stuff. What's the process, and you find it. Work with an agency. [00:17:51] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, it's kind of like that. Like, I guess not like, you know, the jobs in the agency world. It's not like, you know, they post them online and you send in your resume. You'll probably kind of have to meander your way and, you know, build some connections. So I was at the point where, as I was finishing up law school, you know, I had been involved in grassroots basketball and the national team to a certain extent, pro basketball to a certain extent, where I had a ton of different experiences, ton of different relationships. So I kind of really just started trying to be purposeful, but packaging myself, my resume, but also the connections I had and starting to strategically reach out to some people and kind of just pitch myself as someone who could provide value. But to your point, someone who has relationships with players in Canada and then also had a network of college coaches, player development coaches, someone that I could tap into and was lucky enough to, had some great people helping me out as well. That's something that I can't not mention. I wouldn't be here without, you know, some of the people that gave me opportunities to be involved with their programs or put in a good work for me, and got connected with Todd Ramasar, who's the president of Life Sports, and obviously Pascal Siakam is a client of ours at the time was in. Was playing with the Raptors, and through some mutual contacts, you know, got connected with him. And I think the timing was right where he was interested, you know, in expanding and growing the agency. And I was kind of finishing up my law school and had some connections to some talented players and kind of just, you know, when we met, I really got a great feeling in terms of feeling aligned with Todd, in terms of who he was, what he wanted to achieve, how he wanted to do it. And, yeah, you know, brought me on and been going strong ever since. [00:19:20] Speaker B: Shout out to Todd. Yeah, like his clientele. We talked about it. Pascal, we got Nemhard. [00:19:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Kavon Looney, Eric Gordon. [00:19:29] Speaker B: Let's go on. List goes on. He also did a podcast recently with my guy, Jacob Lee. Him. [00:19:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:34] Speaker B: If anybody wants to listen just about Todd's journey, that kind of stuff, I recommend listening to that. Shout out to Jacob League. Him. He does a really good work, does a great job. Players coming up, that kind of stuff in the NBA, I feel like he spotlights players that maybe people are not even recognizing. So I want to. I wanted to shout him out. That's my guy. Well, how did you Connect with Todd in the first place. Tell me, that first conversation where you guys reached out, was it like, hey, did he know of you? Like, what was that conversation like? Did you reach out to him? And you guys kind of built that rapport. What was that first conversation like? [00:20:03] Speaker A: You know, it's kind of on the back end of COVID So everyone was a stationary, a little, you know, traveling a little less. And, you know, Todd. Todd had been interested in. In a couple Canadian players, you know, that I. I had connections with, and there were some mutual connections through Roy Randall of Adele Messiah. You know, guys that really helped me when I was younger. Ended up getting in touch with, With. With Todd and ended up doing. I think we did a couple of zoom interviews because it was still kind of. I think it was like 2021. Right. You know, country in that Covid time where the travel was limited, kind of. As I said, he had mentioned that he was interested in growing the agency. He had prior experience working at a couple other agencies and had been. Had started building and growing and developing his agency for, at that time, four or five years and was at a point where he wanted to grow. So he ends up coming on board. And he's been an amazing mentor and someone that I've been able to learn from, and I think it's really accelerated my growth being affiliated with someone like him who has a really strong reputation around the league. [00:20:58] Speaker B: Yeah, UCA legend, too. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Yep. [00:21:00] Speaker B: Yeah, don't forget about that. Why was there an interest in Canada? We, obviously, I think we understand it, but from a guy that's from the States, that's like, okay, he's seeing the potential. You're living it. You're seeing. Now we have, what, 20 plus Canadians in the league. I feel like that's going to continue to grow. And Covid's also interesting period of time. Right. Because it was like there's this, I don't know, 2021. Might have been a few guys in there, but what was that like in terms of expanding and, like, you being that guy that can tap into the Canadian market? [00:21:31] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think. I think it was something where we synergized off each other. Right. Like, I was always someone I didn't want to just jump into becoming an agent and trying to convince players or sit across from a player who I cared about or who I knew if I didn't have everything at my disposal to represent them effectively and help them maximize what they could do with the game. So for me, it was okay. Yes, I believe I have a skill Set. I have a connection and familiarity and trust with some players. I. I want to myself, partner or be a part of a group that has the platform, the blueprint, the expertise, the credibility where we know, if I'm sitting across from someone that I've known for five, 10 years and we're saying, hey, you know, we want to represent you. We have every. Absolutely everything at our disposal, you know, to represent you effectively and maximize what you do with your career. So I think that's what it was all about, right, Is working with good people and then. Yeah, tapping into a market that is growing and full of talent and full of good people, too. Like, you know, I'm a little biased, but I think a lot of our Canadian NBA players and pros, like, they're good people and they're guys that are good to work for. [00:22:27] Speaker B: Is that what you look for? Like, what's your. When you're looking for potential clients, what are you looking for? I. Because obviously you go watch three games in college, talent, obviously is the main thing, but you also have to learn the background. What's this guy like off the court? That kind of stuff. What is stuff that you look for? [00:22:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that's, you know, that's one of the first things I think Todd really instilled in me is like, you know, trust your trust, you know, your evaluation of a player and a person. And don't be in a rush just to represent everyone. Right. You know, sometimes I think that is a stigma the agent face. Like, they're just out there trying to tackle every player standing. Players like, we're talent evaluators too. Right. We try to keep a personal mantra of the players we represent. We want to be fans of their games and we want to be fans of them as people. Right. So, yeah, 100. You want to. Obviously, a player has to have talent. He has to have upside. He has to. But then the same. Does he have the propensity to improve based on his work ethic, you know, his attitude, his personality, like all that stuff is important. Right. Because, you know now. And it's more and more competitive, as you're seeing. Right. To make the NBA and then also to stay in the NBA. And even if you want to play overseas at a high level, you know, it's just going to continue to get more and more competitive. And the differentiating factors often come down to, you know, discipline, work ethic, motivation. [00:23:36] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to go back to becoming an agent. [00:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:39] Speaker B: What was that? What was the hardest part like, in terms of the process to officially getting Stamped as a MBPA agent. Right. Like was the test, like what was the test process like? [00:23:50] Speaker A: Yeah. So to, to get certified, like there's a test that the MBPA puts out once a year. You know, it's basically is basic costs money too, right? Yeah, you have to, you know, there's a fee that goes into. And even then when you're an agent, every year there's a union due you have to pay. [00:24:02] Speaker B: What's the, what's the pay? [00:24:03] Speaker A: I think it's like it's 2500 a year. [00:24:05] Speaker B: Somebody, somebody I know you have no interest. Guys, I will never become an agent, I promise you. [00:24:11] Speaker A: No, so it's. Yeah, it's mand. Right. So you know, there's about, you think about. There's about, I think there's about 850 certified agents by the NBA. Right. So you start doing the math on how many players there are in the NBA. It's a competitive business. [00:24:22] Speaker B: What's that like too? Because obviously you want to make yourself stand out as an agent, but then there's a lot of agents that pay this fee. They become an agent and they don't have clients. Yeah, because I think that's the biggest issue that I hear. I had Mike George on, He's like, people sometimes don't realize like what it's like, the grind, that kind of stuff. How did you make yourself stand out? [00:24:42] Speaker A: I think again, it's being strategic about who you're working with, how you present yourself, the skill set you develop, and then the people you surround yourself. Again, when there's an individual or a family selecting an agent, it's a massive decision. Whoever you choose to be your agent, you're handing off a large part of control about your future, pretty much for your lifelong dream. So it's something that we take very seriously and something that individuals and players should take seriously too. So I think you need to one, you need to arm yourself with the platform, the blueprint, the resources to execute for these clients or else we're doing a disservice to them. We're fiduciaries to our clients. We have a duty to execute for them. So ultimately you need to have a good offering. Because any player worth signing as an agent, there's going to be competition to sign them amongst reputable agents. It's just the reality. [00:25:31] Speaker B: I was going to ask you how important is the role of parents AU coaches in the recruiting process? Like reaching out to them, talking with them and then obviously the relationship that you have with the player. What's that Process like me, you don't have to give your secrets in terms of how you talk to parents or talk to the people around them, but obviously, because it's, it, it's a lot of people in that circle, right. And you have to get them to trust you and be like, yeah, this is the guy we're gonna have represent our kid. [00:25:59] Speaker A: Yeah. I think that's the beauty of, is every, every player has a unique story and with that comes a unique, you know, set of advisors and supporters. Right. So I think for our job is to, you know, understand who's important to the player and work collaborative collaboratively with them. And obviously, you know, the beauty of it as, as a player's career evolves, there's going to be girlfriends, wives, you know, family members are going to evolve. Right. So it's a beauty. But I think we always, I always take the philosophy of understanding who's important to the player, who cares about the player, whether that's, you know, obviously family members, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncle, the parents, you know, player development, coaches, AU coaches, high school coaches, you know, trainers, you know, you see it all. And I think as long as you're working with good people who care about the player, I'm always going to take the approach of working collaborative. Collaboratively with them. [00:26:42] Speaker B: Yeah. How early do you start now tracking players, nil has become a thing where it's taken off. I've seen like 8th graders sign nil deals. I don't know if 9, nines, tens, like it's, it's starting early. How early do you start to track players? High school, au. Is it earlier than that? Like, when do you start to be like, okay, I'm keeping an eye on this kid? [00:27:03] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think obviously even in the, in the time I've been in the business, things have evolved. Where to your point players are signing with representation? Are we in earlier where there's players in the 8th, 9th, 10th grade? [00:27:14] Speaker B: Do you like that? [00:27:15] Speaker A: I think, I think if it's done well, I think, I think it could be an advantage for the player. I think having someone who has again, every player when they're in the 8th, 9th, 10th grade, they want to achieve the highest level, they want to get to the NBA or they want to get to the highest level they can. So if you, if you can work with representation that has a blueprint or has experience getting players those results and then we can help instill some of the habits and the resources in those players at an earlier age, I think it's an advantage right if we can, if we can shine a light on, hey, these are the habits or these are the behaviors of how an NBA player approaches his off season or in season. And then we can, you know, if you're a 10th grader and you could start, you're obviously not going to be able to instill all of that because, you know, you're young, you have school, you're still not fully developed. But if you can get, it's like for instance, you know, hey, this is how an NBA off season looks like in terms of, this is who you're working on the court, you're getting physio and treatment on your body every day, you're lifting every day. This is what nutrition as a pro level looks like. If you can take some of those habits and those, you know, resources and instill them at a younger age with, you know, that can excel your, your development. [00:28:15] Speaker B: How much do you think that's needed? Especially maybe in Canada with like, I feel like the US Is probably way ahead. Most people would say, in terms of, like, Canada, there's a lot of late bloomers, right. Talent wise, how much is that needed? Where you see what an off season works out, look, looks like, or where people spend, okay, I'm going to spend this amount, amount, this amount of time on vacation, this amount of time in the gym, this amount of time working out, this amount of time eating. Right, that kind of stuff. And I'm guessing you're also putting them around some of your pros also. [00:28:45] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:28:46] Speaker B: How much do you think that's maybe needed in Canada? And do you feel like the US Was kind of ahead in that aspect? [00:28:52] Speaker A: I mean, I think as much as young players can see behind the curtain and see what goes into being a pro and seeing what it actually takes to achieve success is a blessing. Right. And to your point, we try to do that all the time. It's the beauty of having clients across the agency at different stages in their career where, yeah, Pascal Siakam can be in the gym with a nomax Prosper in August in la and they're, you know, it's informal, but you're learning like, like you're, you're having little small side conversations in between reps or in between games or, hey, we're going to take all the clients up for dinner and you have Kavon Looney and Pascal Siakamo who have won championships, been all Stars, and then you have, you know, an Andrew Nemard, an Omax, an A.J. mitchell and E. Clifford. Like, those guys are all sharing stories they're learning. I think it's the beauty of the game, right? So as much as guys can get exposure to people that have achieved what they want to achieve, I always think that's a good thing. [00:29:38] Speaker B: Pascal teaching that spin move with the dinner man. Yeah, I'll listen to that. [00:29:41] Speaker A: Hell yeah. Yeah. [00:29:43] Speaker B: What's that to like the nil? How is it different from like, okay, this guy's on an nil deal and now I'm going to represent this guy agency wise when he turns pro. What's the difference between that? Are they like exclusive? Are they like, okay, he signed to me now and I have until X amount of time. Like what's that process like? [00:30:03] Speaker A: I think, you know, we always try to. Again, the biggest job we have is to help guide our basket, our clients, basketball journeys, to help them achieve what, you know, the maximum they can achieve in this game. Right. So I think whenever we're bringing out a client is that it's understanding them, understanding their game, understand their goals, then kind of reverse engineering a plan, you know, really down to a T to help execute that. So if it's signing a guy who's an NBA vet or who's, you know, entering the draft and going into the pre draft or if it's a 10th grader, it's going to be this a lot of the same process, but it's going to be unique to them based on what they need and you know, what their situation is. [00:30:35] Speaker B: You probably have been in a hunt for a player that multiple agents are pursuing. But what do you think makes yourself life sports unique and why players sign to you guys? [00:30:47] Speaker A: You know, it's a good question. You know, I think in this industry, right, Ultimately I alluded to before, like whoever a player signs with, you know, it's a belief that that person can help guide them and achieve what they want to achieve. Right. So I think for us it's always combining again, the blueprint, the resources, the knowledge, the ability to do the job with a personal care strategy and intentionally, that's something that we never want to sacrifice. It's not, hey, we're going to sign 10 guys and we're going to all put them in the gym and you know, hope it all turns out. It's like, no, we're going to sign a player, we're going to commit to him, we're going to build a plan for him that's based on him and what he needs and then we're going to push him and empower him and go get it. [00:31:20] Speaker B: How competitive is it? Now to sign, like, top king prospects. What's that like? When. Because I've seen you in the gym all the time. What's that like? I'm guessing the process and now there's a lot of agents I feel like coming out, coming out and. And it's cool to see, just evolving, right? There's not just agents. I feel like there's scouts now there's executives. A lot of Canadians are popping up in the scene. What's that like? And then obviously, the competitive. Now that people are looking at Canada as a market that needs to be. [00:31:48] Speaker A: Focused on, I think, look, you gotta. I think it's a good thing. Like, I think, as I said, like, players that you want players that are worth representing. It's a reality that other agents and other people are going to be recruiting them. Right? So I think you got to trust what you offer. You got to trust your expertise and you got to work like, you got to put in the time, build the relationship, build the trust. You know, we always say, like, I think the greatest testament of an agent is the testimony, you know, of their current clients. Right. And how they execute for them. I think one thing I want to always be proud of is how I present myself in the recruitment process. If you ask that client five years later, when he's assigned client and five years into his MBA career, they say, hey, the way they presented themselves and how they're going to work for me, it's come to fruition. That's how they've acted. Right. So I think that's something I always try to keep centered and try to execute on. [00:32:29] Speaker B: Is there a difference in how you recruit Canadian players compared to American players? Because, you know, I don't know. I won't say that Americans are a little bit stuck up, but, you know, like Canadians, I feel like it might be overwhelming because, like, this might be the first time that now it's probably different now, obviously they. I feel like exposed completely differently. But what's. Is there a difference? You feel like when you talk to Canadian player and an American, maybe just from where they're from, maybe that's. [00:32:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's all situational. Like some Americans might be. You know, I don't think it's necessarily based on American or Canadian or international. I think each client is different. Every client has a different upbringing, different set of experiences. So you really. I don't want to. I never try to marry myself. Like, this is a Canadian. I need to recruit them this way. Or this is an American. Because, you know, in a Lot of ways it's interchangeable. A lot of our Canadians, especially, spend so much time in the US either at prep school or on the AAU circuits or. And even the Americans, they've competed internationally and FIBA competition or international tournaments. Right. So there's a. I think each situation needs to be different. You know, I've represented Americans, I've represented Canadians, I've represented international players. I think each client is unique and you kind of have to get to know them and, and go from there. [00:33:33] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to go into, I don't know, some spicy questions, but get your thoughts on. Have you ever had to, like, turn down a player? Because the red flags are like, you're like, you know what? I might not be the best person to represent you. And maybe like, what are the red flags that you've seen in the industry? You're like, you know what? I need to avoid this. I need to watch out, be careful for this. Anything that's like, you've picked up. [00:33:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know if. I don't know if, like, you know, really, like a point where, like, you're turning someone down, but I think the natural, you know, human beings, like, they. They can feel off each other's spirit rest. I think in terms of, like, when you're recruiting someone, there's been cases where you're recruiting someone, things kind of tail off because you can tell through your conversations or with conversations with, you know, maybe family or support system around the player where it's not going to be a good fit. Right. It's very rare that, you know, through the recruitment process that you get a player that you don't think you're going to get. Like, you can normally tell, normally when you think you're going to get a player, those are the guys you get because you built a connection. There's a genuine kind of, you know, mutual, you know, interests. Right. It's. It's. And, you know, I think. I think the biggest challenge sometimes you face is just, you know, expectations. Right? Like parents or a player, they might sometimes have unreasonable expectations, which is. Which is fine. Right? Like, you're naturally going to be subjective about yourself or the people that you care about most. I think for us, it's always being upfront, being honest about the expectations, trying to take. It's a balance between being objective and reasonable and then always pushing and believing in our clients. Like, that's one thing. We're never going to accept the status quo and we're always going to push. And we've had some great Instances where we've taken players that the mainstream may be undervalued and then driven up their value. Like an Omax Prosper who went into the draft, you know, probably ranked 90th in the draft rankings, ends up, ends up getting drafted 24th overall. Right. Same with Nick Clifford or A.J. mitchell. Right. Or guys, we've driven up the draft board. But that's because again, going back to what I said earlier, we evaluate their game, we evaluate them as people and we knew who, you know, how good they were and how great they were going to be. Right. [00:35:26] Speaker B: The Omax story to me is very, very interesting because I remember you reaching out to me, maybe it was months prior to even like the whole draft process. [00:35:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:35] Speaker B: And you're like, this kid's going to rise, he's going to rise up the draft boards. And I remember telling some people, people didn't believe me at the time, like, yo, I think this guy has a chance just from like, from what I'm hearing, that kind of stuff. And then he ends up a 23rd pick in the NBA draft. I want to ask you too, just about when was the first time you watched Omax play? [00:35:54] Speaker A: You know, so I watched Omex play dating way back right to cybl, which is like the local, you know, AU circuit, back when he was playing for Brooklyn Elite and watch him in like the Bioseal Futures game, but always kind of watched from afar. I was even back to when I was an agent like seven, eight years ago, when he was super young, but really locked in on him as like an NBA draft prospect, you know, as an agent. Watched him live, Marquette versus Baylor. Had a client on Baylor, Adam Flagler, and was watching them and I was familiar with Omax and been tracking him and he like, you know, Marquette blew the doors off Baylor, they blew them out. Omax had like, I think 23 points, six rebounds, like, play great. And at that point, seeing him in person, I was like, this kid's ready, he's got size, he plays hard, he's got skill. All the intel was super hard working. And Omax, you've met him, he's one of the family, one of the purest, best people he could be around. So from there it was like, hey, this kid's an NBA player, he can make it. Right? So let's dive in, let's connect, let's present our plan and go from there. [00:36:51] Speaker B: What was your pitch to him? [00:36:53] Speaker A: I mean, it was just that it was, hey, we know how good you could be. Let's surround you with great resources. In the pre draft process and simultaneously for Tottenham, it's advocating and positioning him with NBA teams. And then most importantly, he went out and got it. Like, if you remember, he went to the combine, you know, killed it at the combine. [00:37:09] Speaker B: Right. Shut him down after one day. Smart decision. [00:37:11] Speaker A: Well, you know, he was injured. [00:37:12] Speaker B: He was injured. [00:37:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:37:14] Speaker B: A little stiffness. You know what was. Also, you're a young guy. I feel like, how much do you think that helps in terms of being able to relate with players coming up and how much do you use that as an advantage being like, yo, I kind of know similar. I don't know if you say you can know what they're going through, relate, but I feel like you're maybe on the same wavelength of them compared to maybe other agents. [00:37:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I think relatability is a huge thing. Right. As much as you can understand and connect with your clients, I think that's super, super important in representing them effectively. Right. You know, at the same time, a client wants also the full confidence that an agent can represent them, you know, fully and execute at the highest level. And sometimes being young, that could also be used against you in recruiting with other agencies and stuff. So something you're always mindful of. You want to maintain that relatability and that connection and be authentic. And I've been lucky enough where I've had great relationships with the clients I represent. But also understanding you're oftentimes sometimes in rooms with guys who are a little bit older and always holding yourself still to that high standard. Just because you're a little bit younger doesn't mean you can't achieve the same results as older agents or older executives. [00:38:17] Speaker B: I've seen you at the draft combine, I've seen you at the NBA draft summer league, and I can't. Sometimes I'll have a conversation with you and then five people come up. While we're having that conversation, it seems like you've built a lot of relationships in the NBA front office executives. How'd you go about connecting with NBA teams, front office executives for the first few years while you were navigating becoming a agent? [00:38:38] Speaker A: Well, I think, you know, a huge testament to Todd, like if you know him, like as you mentioned, like his, his reputation in the NBA and the respect he commands, you know, again, across from decision makers to media to coaches to players, like, it's been able to accelerate my growth because my affiliation with him has opened doors where there's more people and obviously the affiliation with representing great players, I've been able to accelerate My growth where I've been able to again, through having players in the draft, through doing free agent negotiations, through having players traded, you're able to be in the room and have those conversations with decision makers or scouts through the draft process. Again, it's a testament to the people I've been blessed to work with and the reputation Todd has where I've been able to again tap into his network and then also simultaneously build my own network and still be myself. And that's something he's always encouraged me to do and empowered me to, you know, have my own conversations and my own relationships in a way that, you know, I'm not sure all senior agents do. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's amazing. I want to kind of talk now about the NBA draft. [00:39:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:36] Speaker B: Because I told you it's my favorite thing. I just. The whole process, seeing it and get you just like the inside of what's that, like the pre draft process, all that kind of stuff. But what's your favorite part? Like you've had multiple players go through it. What's your favorite part? Just about the pre draft process, I. [00:39:51] Speaker A: Think the most, it really is the best part is like seeing a player's dream come true. Right. And you know, to take another step player is like also when you believe in a player and then seeing everyone else catch up and the results come like Omax or AJ Mitchell or Nick Clifford, like when we initially signed those guys, we knew they were, you know, first, first round quality players. But you know, the mainstream media or the NBA front office, they still weren't quite there. Right. So again, as that process, as you're seeing everyone catch up to what you believe in, like that's super gratifying and super good to see. And then like, yeah, that culmination where you hear of players. Dave called and again it's what he's pretty much dreamed of, you know, since he started playing the game. And it's just the start of the next journey and there's so much more work to do. But that's the best part of it is being there on draft night or seeing their names called. Even some of the players we have that haven't been drafted, that have been able to find their way in the NBA through adversity, guys who have battled injury, through the draft process, guys like Adam Flagler, David Duke, A.J. lawson, you know, who have had to battle, that's even more gratifying. Guys who have fought and fought to, to fight for their position in the NBA. [00:40:56] Speaker B: You talked about Omax's rise. We'll talk about the A.J. mitchell too. I feel like he's had a really good year, maybe big next season coming up here in Oklahoma. What was that like, their jumps as players? I'm guessing you're probably talking to people. You talked to me and you told me and people didn't catch on. But what was that like when you're talking to people? Like, I think this guy's gonna rise. And what's. What was that feedback like you're getting that hour unsure and then he ends up in the first round. Cause he wasn't on. Like people don't realize he was not on draft boards ahead of the NBA draft. [00:41:28] Speaker A: Like you're talking about Omax. [00:41:29] Speaker B: Omax before the combine, he was not. Nowhere near from what I remember. He was. You can correct me if I'm wrong, I don't remember him at least in the top 60. [00:41:37] Speaker A: Yeah, he wasn't at the start of the process. [00:41:40] Speaker B: Shout out to Govon. He does great work, but like, you know, he didn't even have it all the like, you know, there's some people that do good work too. Like on the. I feel on the local scene of the draft space that probably like catching on, saying Omax could be this. But what was that like? And then seeing everyone catch on. [00:41:55] Speaker A: I mean it's great. Again, it's the belief we have in our players and then it's the. Our job is to position them and have everyone else see it. Right. So it's again, someone like Omax, like he showed up in LA for his pre drive training and he attacked every single day like with the most elite level of discipline and work ethic I've seen. Like, you know, every single day you're getting up early, you're working out on the court, doing a one on, no workout, you're going to the weight room, you're getting your treatment, you're eating, you know, the chef repay meal with your protein, with your veggies. You know, you're drinking your wild, you're going back at night, you're getting game rep shots up. Like he did that every single day. Obviously, you know, take Sunday off, but essentially every single day for five to six weeks. So he's doing his job, preparing in the background. Todd and I were talking to teams, we're helping position him, you know, 6, 8, 72 wingspan, 5% body fat. Like elite worker, elite person, elite family. Would you say body fat, what was it, 5%? [00:42:45] Speaker B: I wish I could have that, man. [00:42:47] Speaker A: Other than me too. [00:42:47] Speaker B: Remember? [00:42:48] Speaker A: That's him, man. He went into workouts and like, he did a lot of workouts because he had to move up the board. He killed the combine, killed his interviews. You know, it was all him. Our job is to predispose those teams to evaluate him properly. And then we've never had a player rise up in the draft who didn't go out and do his part. [00:43:03] Speaker B: Yeah, you talked about workouts, in your opinion? I want to give this take because I always find it fascinating because players will work out. I'll hear sometimes from other agents or whatever. It's like, okay, he worked out, had a terrible workout. Some teams will look at that and be like, you know what, we're not going to draft them because of that. In your opinion, just being in the industry, how much does, like, the NBA workout matter when a team is potentially thinking about drafting you? [00:43:31] Speaker A: I think it could certainly help. I think, again, every team puts a different level of importance on the workout. I think it could certainly help. I think. I don't know if a poor. Maybe a poor shooting performance or a day where you're just a little off, basketball wise, can hurt you. What I know can definitely hurt you is if you go and you interview poorly or you don't work hard or you're out of shape. And we've been lucky. We haven't had that situation with any of our clients. But I think that's the real way you can hurt yourself in draft workouts is if things that you can control, you don't execute those things. I think if you go into a workout and you take good shots and they don't fall, good teams with good front offices that evaluate, they're not going to hold that against you because in most cases you have a huge sample size of at least one college season, if not multiple. But I think the real value of those workouts in a lot of cases is obviously the performance is important, but chance for the front office to interact with the player one on one, or in group settings or at dinner, or watching how they approach their body, the treatment, the warmup, cool down, like, stuff like that. Teams are evaluating. [00:44:28] Speaker B: Yeah, because I always wonder too, because I'm like, you guys are watching them for the entire season of college. There's no way a workout, in my opinion, should dictate whether you draft a guy or not. How do you prepare them, though? Or how do you decide whether or not to send a player to a workout where it's like, this team's interested? Obviously you're talking to them. I'm guessing all year round. Hey, I like your Client. This, this, this and that. [00:44:48] Speaker A: Yep. [00:44:49] Speaker B: How do you decide, okay, whether this team is actually interested or not? Some teams will probably lie to you, be like, we love them. I'm guessing they're playing the game too. That's, that's kind of what it is. They got to tell you we're really interested. Just so they get him in the gym, they want to see him go up against maybe a top guy and, or whatever it is. I'll even hear stories about like some players will want like 50 or 4th year guys just to guard some of these 19 year old prospects. [00:45:14] Speaker A: Test them out. [00:45:14] Speaker B: Just to test them out against like the guy that they actually want. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:17] Speaker B: How do you weigh whether or not a player, whether you send a player to work? I don't know. [00:45:22] Speaker A: I think again, it's all situational. It's. We, you know, we all, we have a saying again, like agents don't draft the players, the teams do. So we have to do our diligence in terms of talking to teams, talking to scouts, talking to people with intel, getting an understanding of where our client's draft range is. You know, we never want to assume our client's going to go so high. We want to hear it from the team's mouth. Right. So our job is to understand where our client's draft range is and then be mindful of his physical, mental, you know, status during the draft. During the draft work, because it can get rigorous. If you're working out for 14, 15, 16 NBA teams, understanding, again, having meaningful conversations, understanding what the level of interest is, how the fit is for that player, where they're drafting, what their philosophy is moving forward. Are they a team that plays young players a lot? What direction are they going? Are they going to rebuild? Are they going for a championship? How's the coaching situation? Like, there's a ton of factors that we analyze and we put together a workout schedule for our clients. We never want to trick a team into drafting all of our players. We want to prepare them really, really well, get them ready both physically and mentally, and then put them in front of the right teams and have them take it from there. [00:46:23] Speaker B: You talked about teams are the ones that draft your player. But I will also say, like, I've heard stories where, you know, there's agents that sort of want to dictate where their player ends up, especially like in the later rounds, that kind of stuff. Or in the second round where it's kind of more like, okay, we want to make sure it's a, we want to make sure he Gets an opportunity or whatever it is. Right. And some players will be like, don't draft me if I'm not going to be. End up if I'm not going to be a priority, if you're not going to have me earlier on, don't draft me. What's your thoughts on like agents, because you got to play this game too, where it's like you want your client to have the best chance to excel. Right. How do you, how often do you think that happens where it's like agents are dictating where their player ends up now? [00:47:04] Speaker A: I mean, I think that's exactly it. Ultimately, the only duty we have is to execute the highest level for our clients and do everything we can to put them in situations where they're going to thrive. Right. So if that, you know, are there situations where. Yes, you need to be strategic about the positioning of your client because, yeah, situational factors can drastically change the outcome of a player's career. And his entry point to the NBA is so, so important for the trajectory of his career. Right. So maximizing that entry point and making sure the factors are in place for the player to succeed, you know, something that we take very, very seriously. [00:47:34] Speaker B: What are your thoughts on the second round now with Nil? Do you feel like it's a. I feel like it's because now fourth year, fifth year guys. Yeah, I've like, I heard stories of like, guys that were late first round picks be like, you know what, I'm going to make more in the ncaa. What are your thoughts on that, dealing with that probably on a daily basis now? [00:47:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a reality of the market. Whether I, whether I think about it isn't necessarily as important as it's going to happen. Right. So I think it's good. I think there's more players across different levels now that are making a lot of money and having great basketball experiences. Right. So if it gives more opportunity the second round for more college seniors or upperclassmen, and I think in a lot of cases those upperclassmen are getting more opportunities to come in and contribute right away. And a lot, in a lot of times they are. Right. Example, Andrew Nemhar, drafted 31st. AJ Mitchell, 38th. We just had Elijah Martin drafted to the Raptors 39. Like, those are upperclassmen who, you know, especially in AJ and Andrew's case, and Elijah will show it this year, came in and made an impact right away on good teams. Right. So I think it's a. And then from a college standpoint, you have guys who are making a ton of money and they're playing, they're playing in feature roles for their college team at the pinnacle of college basketball, or in a lot of cases, if you get drafted 52nd overall, you know, or 45th overall and you're on a two way or you're on a minimum standard, you're spending a lot of time on the bench in the NBA or you're spending time in the G League. Like, I think that can't be forgotten too. The experience these guys are getting as star players or feature players in college is great. Where they're getting paid, they're having a great experience in a lot of ways. It's maybe prolonging or delaying their entry point to the NBA, but it might enhance it where you have a player who goes back to college and you know, we had Nick Clifford who tested the draft with us. Colorado State, you know, was looking, gathering the feedback, looked like he was going to be an early second round pick, you know, decided that, hey, if I go back to Colorado State for my, for my senior year, I feel like I can have a year while propel myself into the first round. He went back to school, you know, won Mountain west tournament mvp, averaged almost a double double, you know, made it to the NCAA tournament, had a great experience, ends up being a first round pick. Right. So I think it's all situational, but I think if it's handled correctly, it's great opportunities on the collegiate side and on the pro side. [00:49:36] Speaker B: What was that like in terms of like, Nick juggling whether I should go back or not? Yeah, goes back, ends up a first round pick. Seems like a amazing decision. [00:49:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:46] Speaker B: When you look back on that, like the whole process, obviously you talked about it just like, how did he feel like just talking to him just like that was the right decision. [00:49:55] Speaker A: I mean, I think again it's, you know, again you're lucky enough to work with a player who's smart and intellectual and understands the bigger picture of, hey, what's best for my long term, you know, potential as a player and earning potential. And then it's our job as to agents as agents is to present him with the facts. Like, okay, Nick, you have this decision. This is where you stand from an NBA standpoint. This is what the teams are saying. This is what you need to do to move up in the last month before the draft and your workouts. This is what your workout schedule is going to look like. This is what your salary will look like based on where you're going to go on the draft, this is what the college situation looks like. This is your opportunity. This is what players who have gone back to college, these are the stats and numbers you need to produce in order to move yourself up the draft. And obviously we can't control every factor, but our job is to present him with an as accurate as possible of an analysis and empower him to make a decision that he's comfortable with. [00:50:41] Speaker B: I remember chatting with him briefly, I think at the pre draft, I think at the combine when he's doing interviews. Great interview too. Like, you know, he's a great kid and mature. That I think that's also. We talk about the second round, that kind of stuff. Why I think the second round is like it should be. I feel like older players, that kind of stuff just, you know, and then shout out to nil, man. It's, you know, it's making college basketball more entertaining, more fun to watch and all that kind of stuff. You talked about. We just talked about interviewing. [00:51:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:51:08] Speaker B: I mentioned Nick that Omax to me is an amazing interview when I get to chat with him. How do you prepare your guys for those interviews? Whether it's like with media like myself, with NBA teams, when you know they're going to ask them some random question. I've heard some crazy questions. Maybe I want to ask you. What's maybe the craziest question that your client told you that like an NBA team asked them? [00:51:28] Speaker A: I'm not sure you put me on the spot. I don't know if I have one that immediately comes to mind because I've. [00:51:33] Speaker B: Heard stories like, what's your favorite superhero? And I'm like, yeah, why does that matter? Maybe it's like, I want to see if you're an alpha. Are you going to pick little old. I'm trying to think of a superhero that's. That's small, I don't know, a little old. Are you gonna put Captain America? [00:51:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Are you Batman? Are you robbing? [00:51:49] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, like, you Batman around me? [00:51:50] Speaker A: Like, no, I've. I mean, I've seen teams ask players a lot about like their teammates or maybe a coach that got fired or interesting stuff like that, like college. College stuff. Or nowadays a lot of times, like clients, it's a reality. They've transferred, they play at different schools. Right. So asking, hey, your old college coach, you didn't succeed with him. What? You know, stuff like that. But I think to your early point, you know, one, we've been lucky. Like, I was talking to someone about this the other day. Like every client I have, I think they're a good person. I enjoy talking to them. I believe in them as people. So big thing we do is encourage them to be themselves and just showcase their personality. And then yeah, you have to prepare them. We do mock interviews with retired NBA GM scouts. We prepare them where when you're walking into a room, you know who the decision makers are at each team. So you can look them in the eye, shake their hands and address them. We try to get them say, hey, you know, wear a little polo to the interview stuff, like small stuff. [00:52:41] Speaker B: But really you got, you know, yeah. [00:52:43] Speaker A: Looking, looking, looking sharp looking Gucci on. [00:52:46] Speaker B: The, on the wrist. [00:52:48] Speaker A: But you know, it's mostly just encouraging them to be themselves. Okay, Okay. [00:52:51] Speaker B: I love that. You got to invite me to one of those mock interviews. I want to just see what it's like just to see as working strategically. [00:52:57] Speaker A: With, with good media people that you know, care about covering players, you know, honestly and getting them exposure that way too. It's, you guys provide us with a great platform to showcase our guys personality that people may not always see unless they know them. [00:53:10] Speaker B: Yeah, especially I think Omax's story to me was just like so interesting. Just his rise and all that kind of stuff. And then the family angle too. Just I remember a part of the story that included I think on draft night, or was it maybe the process beforehand was like the whole family, like being at the combine. Like I think this is might have been the process where they, they weren't allowed to watch it. So like that the hotel room, like they're all watching it and that's when people don't realize like the combine, the hotel room is literally like a walk. It's like oh yeah, it's like 500 meters. [00:53:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:40] Speaker B: So it's like you're there with him but you're also not there with him, you know, so it's like that's a cool part. But draft night, talk to me through that. That's. To me, I feel like one of the coolest probably moments in the NBA when you get to see your client get drafted. But take me through it. What does that look like for you? The day before there's interviews, they're speaking to the media. They're also, what do you call it, they're getting the suits ready, all that kind of stuff. Looking fresh. What's the day before? Like what's the day of going to the draft? I'm guessing you're phoning teams. Like this is where my client might end up. What does draft night look for you. [00:54:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, you know, it's an extension of the whole process or really a culmination of the whole process. So as you mentioned, obviously, you know, been. Been lucky enough to have three first round draft picks and AJ who got drafted in the second round, you know, so it's really like, it's, you know, the day of when you're there in New York, as you said, there's obligations. It's great stuff for the guys where they're doing some brand appearances, they're meeting with the media. The day of, there's a, you know, commissioner's lunch where Adam Silver invites all the green room invites and their agents and their family for a lunch and he gives a few words and MVPA head this year is Andre Gudalva, you know, gives a speech. So that's great, but it's really, for us as agents, it's again, throughout the whole process, from the combine to the pre draft workouts, to our pro day, it's collecting information, gathering intel, hearing feedback from the team, hearing feedback from other people, gathering. And then once you're going in the draft, you generally have an idea of the range, you know, your client is most likely going to go to. And then in that range, you also have an idea of which teams in that range have the most interest, what teams might potentially trade in. I've been in unique situations where three of them, my clients who've gotten drafted, that team has traded in, you know, traded for the pick on draft night to select the player. So it's helping manage that, being a liaison between the teams, providing information on where our client's going to go strategically and really help driving them up the board and getting down to, you know, obviously hearing that call where you can pass the phone to your client and you know, there's the president or the owner or the GM on the other line, you know, telling them, hey, we're going to take you with our pick. [00:55:48] Speaker B: Yeah. For me, the, the cue or like, okay, this person's about to get drafted is like, either Shams is gonna tweet about it or if it's a fist bump at the, at the table, minutes before, like, even like before the next pick is happening, before you're like, there's a fist bump happening and you guys are all excited. I'm like, he's about to get drafted. That's the cue. People on television don't get to see that kind of stuff. But what was your perception of the draft before becoming an agent and now living through how has that kind of changed. [00:56:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I think when I was younger, obviously you don't really think about, like, the process behind or what leads to that moment, and you're seeing guys go up on stage. As I got older, as I was in university, I started thinking like, man, how's this all work? And I remember through some conversations, you're starting to piece it together, but it's something to your point. I know you were there when Omax got drafted. It's like you can't really simulate it until you're in it and you have that experience and you know a lot of ways as agents, you're working a few picks ahead because you're starting to, through your intel and through your calls, you're starting to work, you know, backwards of. Okay, we're at pick 12. You know, we know. Here's his range. We're calling teams with pick 14, 15, 16, you know, paring things down. Okay, no, this team's going to trade the pick. This team's going to take a big, you know, just stuff like that where we're kind of trying to work ahead and get ahead of everything in real time and ultimately gets to the point where, you know, again, you get down to where client gets picked. [00:57:08] Speaker B: How often are you texting, calling during the draft? Is that the most busy your phone is? [00:57:13] Speaker A: I mean, it's the most concentrated, for sure, and intense. Like, as you know and, you know, like, say, this year, we'll use an example, Nick Clifford, like, we felt his range was like 15 to 27. Right. So it's a pretty wide range. So obviously the first you're letting at the start of the night, you're letting things play out. You know, you're hearing Cooper's name called, right. Dylan and those guys, which is great. But as you start getting into it, yeah, you're taking calls, you're starting to navigate. Okay. You know, hey, is. Where is he on your board? Are you going to keep the pick? Are you going to trade the pick? You're getting calls from other teams like, hey, we're interested in training this range. Who have you heard from that's willing to trade the pick? Are they married to a guy? And then as you get later and late in the draft, there's more variability because obviously the teams don't know who's going to be available. So, yeah, it's a lot of calls, like Todd and I, all these instances, like, we're kind of side by side, we're making calls, we're texting, we're talking to each other. Right? And Obviously you have the client there as well and his parents who are super excited. But also rightfully so there's a little bit of anxiousness and anticipation. Right. So it's managing that as well. So it's really just, you know, trusting the work you're putting in, you know, getting down to work, gathering information and paring it down. [00:58:14] Speaker B: How do you and Todd conquer and divide during that process? Like I'm speaking to some teams that I know they're going to hit me back quicker. Like, you know, what's that like, what's that like? [00:58:23] Speaker A: We've been lucky enough, like we're right next to each other. So yeah, it's just like communication. It's like, hey, try this guy or hey, I'm calling him. You call him. Okay. No, they said this, you know, hey, this team might trade the pick. You call him. I'm going to call that team. It's more just, I can't. I wish I could say there was an exact formul but it's more just, you know, dividing and conquering and kind of going by feel like that I. [00:58:42] Speaker B: Can'T imagine like in the moment, okay, I'm calling this guy, I'm calling this guy. He said this. Talk to this team. That's cool. That's, that's like, you know, behind the scenes process just to finding that out. And also for you, do you feel like teams are honest during that entire process because there's a game. Right. It's like they could be telling you like I'm thinking about Portland. [00:59:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:00] Speaker B: Hanson, Yang. [00:59:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:02] Speaker B: Total shock. [00:59:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:03] Speaker B: In my eyes. I don't know if you saw that coming, but they drafted him. People were saying that guy is a second round pick. Some people were saying two ways. Some people didn't even think he was going to get drafted that high. But they probably had an inkling that teams were interested in that range. And I think they really shocked everybody picking him in the mid first round. Do you feel like teams are honest? Is this a game that you're obviously you built relationships, you're like, yo, tell me this, I'm not going to be spilling out your details of what it is. I just want the best for my client. What's that? How do you find teams in that process? [00:59:33] Speaker A: I think there's always special circumstances where maybe a team really keeps things under wraps or. But I think for the most cases, again it comes with the leverage and the time in the business. And again our agency's reputation of, you know, we have players on most teams, you know, we've had players on all 30 NBA teams in the last five to 10 years. Right. So you have real relationships. And I think on the other side, those executives value that too, where they want to, you know, they want to build trust and they want to build, you know, again, information sharing. I think everyone has a level of strategy involved, but I think for the most part, besides the one off, like, obviously the Hanson Yang thing was out of the blue to a certain extent, but I think for the most part, you have to trust that you're getting good information. But then also never, you know, also relying on multiple sources to verify information. Right? You never want to say, okay, I heard this from one team. I'm just going to take it as gospel. It's like, no, let's verify and fact check this. And that's part of working together with a team of agents at a company where we're working collaboratively together. [01:00:24] Speaker B: And also you're having conversations prior to the job, right? So it's like, you know, like, okay, this team has expressed this to me or they've told me this about what they're looking for, what kind of like they like. So that kind of goes all in the process of who you're calling exactly what you believe in. That kind of. [01:00:39] Speaker A: The beauty of it too is you might be talking to, you know, a director of scouting, you might talk to the assistant gm, you might talk to director of player personnel, you might talk to the gm, right? So there's also. I'm going to have conversations. Todd's going to have conversations, right. So at different levels. And then we're working together, putting our heads together, gathering info. We're talking to the scouts, different agents, even in some circumstances, right? Putting, you know, because ultimately it's intel gathering and information gathering. [01:01:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Nick, what was Sacramento? Why do they love him so much? Tell me about that. [01:01:05] Speaker A: You know, I think it was a new front office. They had just come in. Scott Perrier, previously with the, with the Knicks and been in the business a long, long time. Like, I think prioritizing, you know, players that, you know, are tough, have size, can defend and have good decision making and feel. And that's what Nick has. Right. When they took over, you know, I remember meeting with them at the combine. It's like, hey, we want to identify, you know, we're jumping into this process. We're a new front office. And they kept some of their scouting department, which are great guys who do a great job, right? So they leaned on those guys and identifying players that can come in and play. Right? Away. And I think more and more basketball is becoming a positionless, versatile game. So guys who can guard multiple positions, play multiple positions and could survive on the floor as high level decision makers, those guys are going to become more and more valuable and that's what Nick does. [01:01:48] Speaker B: We talked about Omax, obviously now, new home in Memphis, obviously. Dallas was kind of a lot of forward situations, you know, hard to get minutes. What do you think about the new fit in Memphis and why do you think that's potentially a good choice? Or why do you think, what do you think he can do there? [01:02:04] Speaker A: No, I think it's a great fit. I think it's a place obviously great organization, you know, a new coach who's, you know, innovative and excited to put his imprint on the organization and someone, you know. I think it's a great opportunity for him. Right. Fresh start. As you mentioned, you know, Omax is a worker and he takes the right approach every day. Right. So he's going to work, he's going to listen, he's going to, you know, ingratiate himself to that into that organization with his work ethic and his approach. And I have no doubt that he's gonna do great. [01:02:29] Speaker B: Talked about the draft. Favorite moment. When you look at it, you've been at how many drafts have I've been at? [01:02:35] Speaker A: 3. Three drafts. [01:02:36] Speaker B: Any favorite moment that like, wow, this was, I'm gonna remember this for the rest of my life. Being on tv maybe. I don't know what was, was a moment. [01:02:44] Speaker A: It's always cool, you know, you get your friends and your, my aunt, uncle, cousin, be like, hey, I saw you on tv, you know, But I think ultimately that moment, like when the client, like, I want to say relief, but just like the satisfaction of hearing them on the phone with that team being like, hey, we're selecting you like from seeing A.J. mitchell, Nick Clifford, all these guys, Omax. It's amazing. Like it's, you know, it's, it's like, it's seeing that, like it's, it's tough to really explain. Like it's, it's pure joy and happiness and satisfaction. It's, it's great to see in us as extensions of them. Like it's, we're lucky to be able to share in those moments. Yeah. [01:03:18] Speaker B: Over 20 clients, like we talked about now, how do you go about managing the mall, staying in touch and everyone wants to feel like they're a priority. I feel 100. How do you manage that and make them feel like a priority? [01:03:31] Speaker A: You know, I think it's something you always have to be very, very mindful, right? You have clients, you know, NBA, you know, a group of NBA clients, group of clients, they're playing overseas. A group of clients now they're in the ncaa, you know, expanding now where high school players we're going to be representing. Right. So I think it's again, I always try to take pride in like having an understanding of what's going on in my client's life, both obviously as a basketball player, but then all the surrounding elements at all times. Right. So it takes work, just staying on top of it, watching their games, talking with them, talking with the people around them, talking to the teams they're with. And it's really just again, being strategic and being purposeful and mindful about staying on top of what, what's going on in their lives and their strategy. And again, they're, they're kind of, you know, plan for how they're going to be successful. [01:04:11] Speaker B: You know, I like about this podcast and why people should rate, review, give us five star ratings is because you're not on your phone. How often are you like clutching your phone as an agent on standby? Obviously have to respond to text and I'll have you here for over an hour. Plus you haven't touched your phone, right? [01:04:31] Speaker A: I know, I'm starting it raise you. Right. [01:04:33] Speaker B: So tell me, like, what's that, what's that like in terms of being on your phone? Is there a break? Like, what's that, that process? [01:04:39] Speaker A: Like, Yeah, I mean, like it's, you know, I enjoy it. Like, I've always loved the game. Like, I love, love the game even when I was a kid. Like, I love consuming the game, learning about rosters, learning about the backgrounds of players, watching games. So, you know, it's, I like to, you know, it's probably a little bit unhealthy, but yeah, it's, you know, being on top of it. It comes with a job and I'm, I'm lucky where I have the flexibility to really, you can do your job from anywhere in the world as long as you have your phone and your computer and cell service. Right. So I was just in Italy. I had a couple days where I had like multiple hours and no cell zones that was, that's really anxiety inducing. But besides that, you know, it's, it's the beauty of the job. Like, you know, you get to be around the game, be around great players. [01:05:18] Speaker B: And yeah, latest you've had to answer a call or deal with a client being like, I need this right now or I Don't know, you don't have to go into specifics but like anything. [01:05:29] Speaker A: That latest you crazy. Like my guys are good dudes so nothing too, too crazy. But obviously yeah, there's late night conversations after games or early mornings or as I mentioned like my family's Italian so there's been a couple times since I've been an agent where we've been back home like visiting family. So you've been in Italy, which is like six hours, six to nine hours ahead depending on where in North America you are. So had recruiting calls at like 4 or 5 in the morning in Italy, but it's part of the job, man. It's nothing, nothing that you can handle. You know, overseas clients you can get up in the morning and it's there afternoon so you can call them so you get in the rhythm of it, have an understanding. But yeah, there's definitely sometimes unusual work hours. A lot of watching games late at night, a lot of like texting, you know, after the game, calling after the game, stuff like that. [01:06:09] Speaker B: Mission overseas. Shout out to Marcus Carr. I've seen some clips of him doing his thing. [01:06:12] Speaker A: Doing his thing, man. Actually you know, really the first client I ever signed. So shout out to him, man. It's a great, great kid. Been able to see his evolution since he was a kid. Great person, great player. Gonna have a huge year in Germany. [01:06:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Northern King days back then, is this something you wished you knew before becoming an agent that you kind of had to learn yourself, like actually going through it, that you're like, I maybe not even you're like, I wish I knew. This process just like becoming agent that was like, I don't know, maybe second guess it because it seems like you love your job but like you know, any, anything you wish you knew that you, you kind of won't know until you're in it. [01:06:49] Speaker A: I wouldn't say wish I knew, but something maybe I didn't have such an appreciation for is like how hard it is to be successful and how competitive it is. Like how one to make the NBA and get drafted or make it onto a roster on draft and then achieve the staying power to play in the NBA for as long as you want or you know, 10, 12, 15 years. Right. I think that's the real challenge and I think something that we spend a lot of time as agents or as a company like thinking of ways of how we enhance and maximize our clients opportunity to find that staying power, make that generational wealth achieve what they want to achieve, like that it's hard man, there's so many players that want to make it. There's so many players that make it and taste it and then they can't capitalize. So that's. We're always trying to strive to get our guys to that point where they get over the hump, find that staying power, find that role, maximize, you know, what they can do. [01:07:36] Speaker B: Yeah, people look at the Shays, Jamal Murray's, obviously they're amazing players, but to me, the fascinating stories are the AJ Lawsons fighting for a contract for years, getting an opportunity, thought he had a really good end of the season with the Raptors. Like, what's that like seeing a guy you probably followed for a while and then get that break and have an opportunity with the Raptors. What's that like seeing? Yeah, it seems like a lot of times you also look for the guys that are scrapping, you know, that are under the radar, that kind of stuff. What's it like? Maybe talking about AJ's journey, I mean. [01:08:07] Speaker A: Again, yeah, seeing AJ since he was a kid, like, obviously always such a super talented, high achieving player, being able to bring him on as a client, you know, just over a year ago and in a position where he was kind of, you know, had just recently been kind of cut from an NBA team and seeing, you know, his work and his grind to, you know, earn a contract from the Raptors, earn a conversion, you know, be in a great situation where there's a, you know, a situation to play and then what, what he really deserves credit for is like taking advantage of that situation and then again, the work continues. Having a great summer, going into summer league, you know, going into training camp, having a great off season that leads into this season to a point where he's put himself in good position, you know, with the Raptors, so proud of him. Like those situations require discipline and hard work and developing a comfortability with the uncertainty. Right. And that's hard, that's hard for any human being, let alone a professional basketball player. So those guys have tons and tons of credit. [01:08:58] Speaker B: He was killing it in summer league too. I think he missed the last, was the last game. [01:09:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:03] Speaker B: And I'll say this on Eric, I think they win the championship because he was. [01:09:06] Speaker A: I agree. [01:09:07] Speaker B: Hey, I'll say, I'll say point blank. You don't have to say he was the only one that could actually score on that team. That team was straight defense, but it's coming along that route. It's called Jacoby Walter. Shout out to him doing his thing too. But what's the Most rewarding thing for you. When you think about your career and where you've come from getting to this point, what's the most rewarding thing? [01:09:26] Speaker A: I mean, I think I'm just grateful. Like, obviously there's still so much I want to accomplish, but I think you all. I just want to continue having experiences, getting results, growing, and, you know, we. I'm not. I don't have success unless my clients have success. Right. So I think you always need to keep that front and center and do what's. Keep what's right for them and then, you know, continue to grow. And yeah, the ability, as you know, you mentioned, like, you get to go from NBA, NBA Finals, NBA championship parade. Like, I'm on the championship float, you know, watching a guy hoist up the. And like thousands of Oklahoma City residents, like, screaming at us, enjoy. And then getting on, playing, going to the draft, going to the green room. Like, it's not something, you know, I try as much as possible not to take it for granted. Right. And just continue doing everything I can to keep having those experiences. [01:10:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like this question. Some people might be listening to the podcast being like, why don't you get to a sooner advice someone that wants to do what you do for a living? Because I. I don't know, it's tough. I think people don't realize how tough it is, you know. But what's your advice for someone that wants to become an NBA agent? [01:10:28] Speaker A: I think, you know, I think just expose yourself to as much basketball as possible. You know, again, like, I had some things that people told me when I was younger that kind of always stuck with me. Someone told me, like, never turn down an opportunity to be in the gym, especially when you're young. And I always took that seriously. Like, I always tried to shit high school youth sports player development. Like, I spent so much time just around basketball and not in any sort of capacity I am now, but just always trying to be purposeful, being good to people, getting exposure. So that was one thing. Like, be around, take advantage of time while you're young to, you know, put yourself in environments where you meet people and learn about basketball and learn about the different elements surrounding the sport, you know. And then again, even when I was an undergrad and I was like 1920, it was like, I think it was in my third year of undergrad, I was like, oh, I want to be a sports agent. I ended up, you know, through a few connections, like having a call with that, you know, really successful agent, had a bunch of NBA players And he was like, you know, he's a little bit bumpy. He's like, look, every. Every kid who's not good enough to play dreams of being an agent or a gm, right? Like, ultimately, if you want to be a good agent, you have to have the skill set, but you also have to have connections to players. And that was something I always like. It makes sense, right? Because there's way more qualified people than there are available jobs. You have to find a way to differentiate yourself. And a lot of times I think the people who are in charge of granting those opportunities, there's so many people who are approaching them, it's difficult for them to sort it out. So if you can, you think you always have to have the personal skill set, the credentials, the resume, but you also have to have the right connections, the right network. [01:11:58] Speaker B: Yeah, your network is your net worth. A lot of people say right as bars from Lee Band, Osmond, man, as they say, I might become a rapper after this, but also gonna ask you to this for you now, what's next? Anything you're looking at ahead too? Expanding. And when he talks about people like being in the gym. I seen you at Fort Erie. Fort Erie's a long drive. I always complain about this. Fort Erie took us like two and a half hours to. To get there most recently. Tell me about that process. And then also, what's next? [01:12:29] Speaker A: You know, I think, well, you know, four year, obviously, shout out to them and they host a great event. It's. For me, it's like you get to see great high school players. You get to. There's probably 30, 40 NCAA coaches. A lot of guys I know. So a lot of times, you know, when they're coming into town, they'll message me like, hey, I'm going to 40. I'm going to watch these kids. You know, it's great. You get to see coaches you don't always see or coaches. Sometimes you only talk on the phone with scouts, media, you get to have dinner. I think we went to dinner. It's media. It's NCAA high major, division one coach. It's a high school coach. It's an NBA scout. Like, there's. There's environments where you can meet people, talk basketball, be around the game. I'm never going to turn down the opportunity, you know, to do that because I think it's a ton of value and something I enjoy. In terms of what's next, man, just keep, keep growing, I think. Always, always. Again, taking care of home, like, making sure your clients are good, make sure they're growing, making sure they have everything they need. Myself, I obviously have goals, ambitions. I want to continue to grow in the space. So, yeah, that's really. I don't know if it's a little vague. We just continue growing. Continue. Continue building. [01:13:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Only five years in it, right? [01:13:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. This is going to my fifth NBA season. [01:13:31] Speaker B: Do you get tired of this? [01:13:33] Speaker A: I'm lucky. No. [01:13:34] Speaker B: Young, though, right? I'm not trying to age, you know, so. [01:13:37] Speaker A: Yo. No, I mean, I'm getting up there, getting up there, but no, just. Yeah, I enjoy it. Like, I love going to games. I love watching games. I love watching all sorts of basketball. Obviously, we got the Synergy subscription, so. Yeah, go back. [01:13:48] Speaker B: You know how much hours are on Synergy? [01:13:49] Speaker A: A lot, man. [01:13:50] Speaker B: Hidden gems. [01:13:51] Speaker A: A lot of, like, recruiting. A lot going back. Like, sometimes if you're at a game like tonight, like, there's like five different clients playing, right? So, yeah, I'm not gonna be a game, so I'm gonna be able to have a game on my computer. There's one guy playing at 7:30, one guy playing 8:30, then like two guys playing at 10. But sometimes if you're at a game, you're on a flight and you miss like four games, you wake up in the morning, you pull up this energy, watch all their minutes overseas, guys. If you miss their games, you wake up in the morning, watch their stuff. So, you know, recruiting is obviously a huge thing. Watching a ton of film on that, high school film, college film. So it's a big part of what we do. [01:14:19] Speaker B: Yeah, it's busy. It's busy. If you guys listen, if you want to be an agent, I don't recommend it because the job is crazy, but you hear it all. This podcast, I feel like, covered a lot of stuff. Also, listen to our podcast. I feel like with Mike George, a lot of information about his journey and that kind of stuff. But, Mike, I can't thank you enough. I feel like your rise is just. It's been five years, but, man, I want to see it 10 years, you know, like, what it would be like. And yeah, just. I can't thank you enough for coming on a podcast, given all this behind the scenes, the knowledge. And I feel like people are going to take away. I feel like sort of like the business side of basketball and also just like the grind. Yeah. You talk about your journey from Western University. Not a great basketball team. Not better than Ryerson, but, you know, to see where you're at now, it's amazing. So I can't thank you enough for joining on the podcast. And yeah, where can people find you if people want to reach out? I'm guessing you get a lot of people hitting you up. [01:15:10] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I always, as I said, I was grateful. I was lucky that when I was in a young guy, a lot of people had took time to have conversations with me. So Instagram, Mike Simonetta, you know, Twitter, same thing. Or, you know, my numbers out there folding around. So, you know, I always take time to take to, to speak with people that reach out. [01:15:28] Speaker B: Giving out phone numbers is a dangerous game. Yeah, I will never do that in circulation. [01:15:33] Speaker A: You know, sometimes, you know, you know how it is. I'm sure you're the same way. [01:15:36] Speaker B: Yeah. I'll be honest. Please, no one ever text me because I'm the worst texter ever. But text him if you want to reach out. Talk about NBA agency, the lifestyle, that kind of stuff. Can't thank you enough again, Mike, for, for joining this podcast. And yeah, if you tapped in, tap in Madison Basketball show your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. My guy, Mike, thank you so much. [01:15:58] Speaker A: Appreciate it, man.