Eric Smith talks new book + greatest Raptors & Canadian players of all-time

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:04] Speaker B: Welcome to the Canadian Basketball show, your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. I'm your host Lee Ben Osman. We got a special guest in studio this week. If you listen watched any Raptors game in the past, what, two decades? You know who this is, doesn't need an introduction to be honest with you. In his 21st year as a Raptor played by play voice Eric Smith, my guy. How you doing? [00:00:31] Speaker A: I'm good man. Appreciate it. [00:00:32] Speaker B: Appreciate you having me man, in studio. You just told me. Coming up on anniversary what was Sportsnet Van 90. How many years has it been now? [00:00:40] Speaker A: It'll be, it'll be 29 on, on Saturday, which is crazy to me. [00:00:44] Speaker B: I don't want to age you because you look, you look young as hell. I'll be honest. [00:00:47] Speaker A: I appreciate that you started when I was five, so. [00:00:50] Speaker B: But obviously I wanted to have you on the podcast because you have a new book that came out just a few months ago called we the Raptors. I was reading it and I thoroughly enjoyed it just because like when I cover basketball the stories I like to tell is like the behind the scenes. So like certain stuff where it's like the normal audience isn't privy to about like what happens to a player, like an injury that you don't know what truly happened, why a franchise or organization decided to move on from a player and how they felt in that moment. And I felt like your book really captures a lot of that. But walk me through like what inspired you with this book, why now? And what made you want to come up. [00:01:33] Speaker A: So how long you got? So, so a lot of time. It goes back a couple of years. So I don't even know if you know this. The co author, Andrew Bricker is actually my brother in law. So my wife is the eldest of three and I'm lucky enough that I actually get along with my in laws. Not just my mother in law, my father in law, but with my, my two brothers in law. So the middle brother Andrew, Canadian guy, born and raised out in Mississauga and one of these guys that wasn't a big academic in high school. But then a light clicked when he went to university. Ended up staying in university for like a decade plus was at it was at U of t, then at UBC. Then he started down at Stanford and got his PhDs in this and his master's in that and just as I say, became kind of a career academic. Got hired by or at least applied for a job to be an English history professor at Ghent University in Belgium. This is about seven, eight years ago, got the job. So he moves overseas. And during COVID we're on a zoom call one night, you know, he's talking to, you know, his sister, my wife, talking to his nephew, my son, and him. And I end up on a call for a couple of minutes afterwards, he said, I want to run something by you. Have you ever thought about writing a book? And I like, right away, it's like, no. Like, why not? No, I honestly, I swear on, On. On. [00:02:46] Speaker B: On. [00:02:46] Speaker A: On my mother's grave. Never crossed my mind. Never crossed my mind to write a book. And I will also admit, arrogantly, maybe I thought initially when he brought up this idea of book, he was talking about, like a book about me or a book about my life or my. And like, who the hell would want to read that? And as we started to kind of talk a little bit more, he's like, well, no, it'd be some kind of book about either the NBA, about Canada, about the Raptors, something that, like, is there something there we talk about or write about? And I was like, man, I don't know. Because the other thing too, I'll tell you, man, is as a team broadcaster, there are certain things I've seen or heard over the years that maybe even regular beat writers haven't seen because I flew on the plane for 15 years with the team. I was in all the team hotels. Like, there's stuff that I probably. And, man, I'm not going to tell stories out of school and put my career at Jeopardy. So I'm thinking I can't, I can't. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Maybe, maybe, maybe when I retire, you. [00:03:34] Speaker A: Know, like, when I've got nothing to worry about. But. And again, to be fair, it's not like there's anything that juicy. But honestly, I was like, I don't want to get caught in some salacious tell all or something and get myself in trouble. I still want to have a career and put food on the table for my family. So I kind of brushed it aside. And then as Covid drags on a little bit, and I think we all, like everybody watching this, listening or otherwise, kind of just, what the hell's happening in the world? What's happening with our lives, our careers, and we're looking for something creative to do or something just to occupy our minds and our time. So I started to sort of warm to the idea of, well, maybe if we did, like, what would it be? So again, we're going back to, let's say, 22, 23 at the latest when we finally say, all right, yeah, maybe we could collaborate on something. So you're an English history professor. I'm a, I'm a broadcaster. I went to journalism school. So I, I like to think I could at least write a little bit. I, I have done writing for various websites and whatnot over the years, notably Sportsnet and otherwise. So, yeah, maybe we could collaborate. And Andrew, to his credit, and I don't mean this to sound arrogant or cocky either, he's like, there is no book without you. Because he's saying, he's like, I don't know these guys. I don't have the contacts, I don't have the stories, I don't have the connections. But hopefully I will help you in the sense that maybe you don't want to write an entire 100,000 plus word book. Maybe you can't physically, maybe you don't have the time. So I scratch your back, you scratch mine. So anyways, we come up with the fact, the idea that, yeah, we're going to write a book, but what is it? And I think I might be jumping ahead on one of the questions you're eventually going to want to ask me in this, because I know we were chatting a little bit off, off camera on this, but I've long held this, this theory or this notion with the Raptors and actually with sports fans in general. Let me, let me not even talk Raptors for a second. As sports fans, I don't care if it's basketball, football, baseball, hockey, whatever. We all get into these arguments. Top three, all time, top five, all time, top ten, who's on the Mount Rushmore, whatever. So in my opinion, and this is where I'm jumping ahead, because I know you're going to get to this, we can dig into it later if you want. But in my opinion, the five for the Raptors is locked in. We can argue the positioning. Yeah, but it's Kyle Lowry, Vince Carter, DeMar DeRozan, Kawhi Leonard and Chris Bosh. Those are the five. [00:05:37] Speaker B: Okay. [00:05:37] Speaker A: In my opinion, yeah, those are the five. We can sit here and argue whether, you know, Fred Van Vliet or Pascal Siakam or Damon stoudemire or Tracy McGrady. I think all those guys are in the top 10. I think the five are locked in. But my point about, and this is what the genesis of the book is. What about everybody else? So whether you're a fan in this generation, whether you're a fan 10 years ago, 20 years ago, when I looked up into the stands over the years, and I'm going back to the SkyDome days, let alone ACC and now Scotiabank Arena. And I'm talking on the road again, traveling with the team for 15, 16, 17 years. I would look up into the stands and I would see, yeah, Damon Stoudemire jerseys, but I'd see Doug Christie and, yeah, Chris Bosh jerseys, but I would see T.J. ford, and I'd see Charlie Villanueva, and I'd see Jose Calderon, and I'd see Jorge Garbajosa and Valanchunas and Norm Powell and Patrick Patterson and Grievous Vasquez. And the list goes on. All these jerseys that you would see in the stands, not just 10 for DeRozan and 7 for Lowery and 15 for Vince. You would see all these other dudes. Mo Pete, Antonio Davis, you know, Jerome Williams. List goes on. I could keep throwing names at you. You'd see all those other dudes. So what if we focused on a book about the Raptors that maybe tells the history of the team or the connection to the fan base or the loyalty of the players to the country, to the city, to the organization through the lens of the players that you don't hear as much from, because with due respect to those five guys, or even the 10 guys, we know everything about them. We know everything about them, and we. And anytime a documentary or a book comes out, it's those guys, and rightfully so, they deserve the spotlight. But what if we kind of took a different angle and tried to shine a spotlight on all these other dudes that were fan favorites over the years and did a book about them? Now, I won't lie, at the time that we're coming up with this idea, it's like that 30th anniversary is coming up, and obviously 30 doesn't have the same ring to it that 25 does or that 50 does. But I'd be lying if I wouldn't say there was a little marketing angle or a little, you know, a little hook in it that, like, hey, if we could time this out properly to come out for the 30th anniversary season, what if we got 30 guys, and it could be any 30, the 30 that made it into the book, I could have come up with 30 more. I could have come up with 69 to 100 more. But if we could get 30 guys to represent 30 years of Raptors basketball, not one per year, but just guys that were fan favorites, what if we told their story? So anyways, that's the genesis of how the book started when we came up with this idea. We really latched onto, this is what we're going with. And to Andrew's credit, he said, I've published books before, but in English history, I've never published a book before at all. Never thought I would. So we went the route of let's get a couple of literary agents. I've never had an agent in my broadcasting career, but let's get a literary agent who could do this properly for us. Walk us through how to put together an actual proper pitch, then take it to publishers. And we took it to five publishers and we got five offers. So everybody was excited about this book. One pulled out their offer like kind of last minute, so we were down to four. And then we paired the four, down to two, and ultimately signed with Simon and Schuster like a, you know, big time publisher, maybe the biggest out there. So it was, it was, it was quite the process. And it was like one of those pinch me moments when, when we got picked up, period, when we signed a deal. But then it was like, all right. [00:08:43] Speaker B: Holy, we got a lock in. [00:08:44] Speaker A: We gotta, we gotta, we actually gotta write a book now. We gotta do this. And I'll tell you, the pressure then was getting 30 guys because I could, I could, I'm not gonna name names and throw anybody under the bus, but I could tell you, like, I reached out to 5060 and got yeses from 50 60, but then actually locking them down to do interviews. I'm sure, you know, it's like getting guys in here and trying to do the show. [00:09:04] Speaker B: They always say yes, you know, but. [00:09:05] Speaker A: Then trying to get them schedule wise, working with them. Yeah, so it was tough. But the cool thing was for me though is that even though most of the few interviews that were done in person, most of the book was done via interviews over Zoom. It wasn't just phone calls because I had an idea in my mind that I might try to put together a little mini documentary or something after the fact. And then I looked at the video quality from Zoom. It wasn't good enough and like, forget it. And there were so many great documentaries, whether it be from Sportsnet or TSN and otherwise that came out last year in that 30th anniversary season that I just thought this is going to look crappy anyways, like the video quality and whatever else, even though I've got some great content and great stories. But the reason I bring that up is the, even though it wasn't in person necessarily with 85, 90% of the book, it was at least quote unquote, face to face through the lens of the camera to be able to look somebody in the eye and talk to them is way different than over the phone, 100%, obviously. So to get guys and, and, and to get them kind of just relaxed and, and off guard, just talking to the camera and I'll tell you one of the things I did and, and I don't know, I know I'm waxing poetic here and giving you like a 10 minute answer, but one of the things I've always said to younger students in high school, college, university or otherwise, and I'm not saying this is an ironclad, like everybody can or should do this, but this is what worked for me. And I think this is a little tidbit I would give, which I think helped the book as well is whenever possible, try to not write down your questions, go in with a blueprint, but have that blueprint up here. Or if you've got not only you didn't show me what's on your laptop, I'm guessing you might have a couple of bullet points, but not a full script. Because if you're sitting there listening, then you're not going to, if you're, let me rephrase that. If you're too busy looking at your list and what's coming up, what's question four after three, what's question five after four and what's question nine, ten? Boom, boom, boom. You're not going to actually be listening and you're going to miss an opportunity to latch onto something that somebody says with a follow up question or five follow up questions or bring the conversation in a direction you never thought it would because that's a better direction. And you're getting a subject or an interview subject that's, that's more open about something and you go follow that person down that path and let's see where it goes. And whether that's in an emotional way, in a personal way, whether it's in a controversial way, whatever, you go follow that path as opposed to just focusing on what's next. What's next, what's next? Because that's what you thought would be interesting. So the reason I bring that up is every single zoom interview I did with these guys, I made a point of holding up a blank piece of paper to the, to the camera and I would just say like Jerome Williams, I'd be like, hey Jyd. Literally, I got nothing. It's all up here. Let's just talk, let's just talk. And I would Say most interviews were two, two and a half, three hours long. Some of them were over four hours long. Some of them were multiple interviews over, over a couple of different sequences and whatnot and a couple of different sessions. And I think that's what opened the door and the opportunity to get some of the stories that you talked about off the top of, of getting kind of behind the scenes of things that maybe haven't already been talked about and then putting this thing together. So again, I know it was a super long answer, but that's, that's kind of like how it all started and, and what brought us to it because. [00:12:07] Speaker B: I, there's so much coverage in terms of basketball. There's like, you can go the XNOS route, cover the game like that. And like, I love that. But also I like, I enjoy the, the story especially. You got like a bunch of like, fan favorites, people that people love to watch right for you. Was there a favorite interview? Like when you're looking at the 30, was there one that was like, wow, I wish I had to cut half of this out because I can't even include this all. [00:12:32] Speaker A: So I'll tell you the one. When I said four plus hours, the Matt Bonner interview was the longest one. And when we came out of that, at that interview, Andrew again, my co author, he said, he goes, man, I think there's a book in Matt Bonner's chapter alone, I think we could write an entire book of the stories that he's told and some of the stuff that didn't even make it into the book. Like, like Matt was telling a story at one point about when he's, when he played overseas in Italy for one year. And Matt's dad is a pretty big dude as well. I mean, I'd be lying if I tried to throw it at stats, but I want to say like 6, 7, 300 plus. He's a big dude. And Matt, I guess, had told his dad before his dad had flown over to Italy come visit his son and his dad had came over with, had come over with a couple of his buddies as well. And Matt tells the story that they, they roll up to the arena or the, the practice facility or something in, in, in Italy, and three, four guys get out of like the equivalent of a smart car. Like, it, like it looked like a clown car. He said, like these big dudes, how they even pride themselves and folded themselves in this tiny little car. These four giant dudes get out and, and then Matt, Matt's talking to his dad and, and he says his dad says to him something like, he goes, hey, is that the owner over there? And Matt's yeah. He goes, that's the guy that you said that isn't paying you? And Matt's like, well, no, no, that was a private story. So Matt, as a sidetrack here, Matt had told his dad that he had like, a couple of payments had been missing and like he hadn't seen a couple of paychecks and whatever. And the other side, side parts of the story is there's a lot of speculation as to whether or not Matt's team might have been owned by the mafia or at least had mafia connections and, you know, true or untrue. And Matt's dad apparently walks right up to the guy, you know, and he looks every bit the part of something straight out of a mafia movie or something, and puts his finger right in the guy. Trust you. Like, hey, buddy, you owe my son some money. And Matt said it was not uncommon to have his, his paycheck, his pay show up in a paper bag at his doorstep and whatnot. So all these little funny stories like that and stuff that didn't even make it into the book. So Matt, Matt had some great stories, but on a completely different wavelength. And angle. Mike, Mike James I thought was really good. [00:14:34] Speaker B: I enjoy that. [00:14:35] Speaker A: I mean, he was, he was. His personality man for sure. [00:14:38] Speaker B: How was dinner with him in New York? I know you touched on that. And he was kind of like a controversial figure. He was one of my favorite players. Like, like, and that's what I love about the books. Like, so much childhood, like people I grew up, I'm like, wow, like this guy coming at this point, I didn't really understand as a kid growing up, like, how these guys review. I knew he was a bucket getter, but then like, you saw a different side to him that like most people didn't see. [00:15:01] Speaker A: Yeah, so. So Mike, Mike, Mike seemed to have this, this, this edge to him that he was tough to approach maybe from a media perspective or maybe even sometimes a fan perspective. But again, I saw lots of those 13 jerseys up in the stands, and they weren't just, you know, old retreads from a Jerome Williams jersey. They, they said James on the back, but he was always good to talk to and, and he would come even on the radio with us on, on, on shows and broadcasts and whatnot. And even in, in his, his post raptor days, he was always good about coming on and, and sharing parts of his career, let alone his life. But that night that, that we had in and it's. Again, we go into some of the detail, I think, in the book, but that night in New York City, I remember we were walking out at the. It was actually the. It was the Trump Hotel, one of the Trump Hotels out at Columbus Circle. And this would have been. Man, I don't even remember the year. Now, obviously, the one year that Mike. [00:15:50] Speaker B: Had, It was like maybe 06, maybe 05. [00:15:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess it would have been 05.06. And in fact, now that I say it, I know it was like wintertime, like, it was cold. That's why the cabs weren't stopping. Well, one of the reasons, I think, why the cabs weren't stopping, as I'll tell you about, in a second, because I'm just trying to think, timing wise, if it would have been almost to the day in. In 06, because it would have been right around the. The. The. The Kobe time and Kobe's 81, which was 20 years yesterday. That was so. I don't know if you saw the grainy little picture I put up on. On social media that I said, as I wrote yesterday, it looks like I shot it on a potato, but there I was courtside, you know, seeing Kobe score 81 in my first. Wasn't my first season covering the team, but my first season calling the games. Anyways, so I'm at Columbus Circle coming out of the hotel with Jonesy, with Paul Jones, my longtime friend and broadcast partner. And Mike James is walking out with a couple of his buddies from. That he grew up with from. From Amityville. And he's like. He goes, hey, you guys. You guys are heading out, so. Yeah, yeah, we're going out to grab a bite. He's like, come on, you're going to roll with us. And that's great. I can tell you the amount of times that I went out to dinner. Like, it's not like you wouldn't run into players in the lobby or sometimes in a hotel bar and have a drink or something. Sure. But, you know, I was friendly and professional, but I'm not gonna sit here and say, like, and nor should you be, like, buddies and hanging out and whatever else. He's like, come on, you're gonna roll with us. You come up to dinner with us. Like, all right, I guess we're going to dinner with Mike James tonight. So I go to. Or he goes out to grab a cab. Every cab's buzzing by, Every cab's buzzing by. Jonesy goes to grab. Every cab's buzzing by. And finally, one of his buddies like, he's like, send. Send Eric out. Send the white guy out. Within 10 seconds, cab stops. Like it was. They clear out. Racism. Like, clearly, clearly, clearly. Cab stops. And then as we're about to get in the cab, Mike says, n. Forget that. You know what? We don't want New York cabs. If this is the way it's going to be, forget it. So he. He sends the cab away, and he. Across the street, there's like, a. A limousine. And he goes over and knocks on the guy's door. And he says, talking to him and whatever. Like, we were still off to the sidewalk and whatever. Then he waves over. He's like, this guy needs to be back here. And I can't remember his two hours or three hours. He needs to be back here in three hours to pick up. [00:17:55] Speaker B: Boom. [00:17:55] Speaker A: He's like, let's go. Like what? He's like, let's go. So five of us pile into the back of a limousine now. I'm rolling through Manhattan in a limousine with Mike James, with Jonesy, with the two buddies, whatever else. We go to dinner, had a great dinner. And then he's like, all right, we're going to go to this club. We're going to have a couple of drinks. And he's like, I'm not drinking. I got a game tomorrow. So we go, and I'm telling you, like clockwork. He must have had the watch set, he had the timer set. He knew exactly where he had to be when he had to be there. So it didn't matter if your drink was half done or full. It did not matter who you were talking to. We are leaving now. He had us back in that limo. He had that driver back in position because he knew that dude was a professional. He had to be in a certain spot for his job. And Mike himself knew that he had to be back at the hotel in bed by a certain time, because he had the Knicks tomorrow night. And just the professionalism that I saw even in that and the leadership that it took to kind of corral everybody, to, like, set up the car, to set up the dinner to. But then also to be on time and to make it that stuff like that, to me, that speaks to the character of the individual, not just the player that he was. And that's what I loved about getting to know some of these guys on a personal level and hopefully some of those stories that came out. And I'll tell you another quick, quick one, too, and I won't go on as long, but Chris Childs, like, a lot of these guys, like Mike's. Mike's maybe a bad example because of the fact that I did go out socially with him one time, so I got to know him a little bit more. A lot of these guys I knew on a professional level, and I would hope that through covering them for their season in Toronto or their two or three or seven seasons in Toronto and traveling with so many of these guys, that I maybe did get to know them a little bit better than some other members of the media and certainly some fans, because just yet the opportunity. Right. But I'm not going to sit here and claim that we're bosom buddies and I'm breaking bread with these guys all the time. It was a professional relationship, but I think because of at least having that, that. That sort of little bit of a door opening, they knew these guys knew who I was, so there was a comfort level in talking to me. But a guy like Chris Childs, that came before I was a broadcaster. So I was covering the team, and I was doing pre, half and post for Chuck Swirsky and Jack Armstrong. But I'm not on the team playing. I'm not on the road. I'm not in the team hotel. So these guys, some of these earlier dudes, they probably don't know who I am. They maybe recognize me maybe. Maybe so. For a guy like Chris Childs to be as open as he was, knowing that he doesn't really know me that well, man. He got into, like, forget career. He got into some personal stuff about, you know, battles with drugs and alcohol and. And his marriage and his relationship with his children and. And near bouts with. With death and coming back from the dark side and getting his life on. On. On track, let alone his career. And I talked about multiple interviews. There's a guy that I. I want to say it was three months or so after our first interview. I'm in Montreal in the fall of 24 at Raptors training camp, and I'm out with some buddies. Like, midnight. Phone rings. Chris Childs. Like, it's like a Thursday night in the first week, October. I'm like. And I had a couple drinks myself. I'm like, man, I don't know if I should, but it's like, I don't want to turn down a player. Like, it, like. So. Hello? He's like, eric, it's Chris. Well, yeah. He goes, you got a second? I got some more stuff to talk about. I'm telling. Like, our first interview was like, three months earlier. And so I met randomly at midnight on a Thursday in October. Here's Chris Childs calling me, wants to talk more. So I stepped out of this bar in Montreal and I'm standing in some alleyway in Montreal with the phone now and speaker might be the only interview. Actually, in fact, not might be. It was the only interview that was done on the phone. This 20 minute, 30 minute phone call on the follow up, because Chris just wanted to talk more and tell more stories. And that to me said something then about the trust hopefully that he had in me, that he actually felt the desire months later to call and tell more and, and like I say, to get as personal as he did. Like, there's. Some of the chapters in the book are clearly X's and O's. Raptors, period. Other chapters, like Childs are maybe not entirely, but a great deal about life and growing up, becoming a man and becoming a leader and dealing with stuff off the floor that impacts the on the floor and just getting into some deeper stuff beyond just the standard day to day of an NBA season. [00:21:56] Speaker B: Yeah, like, those are my favorite stories. Just, I love it. But it's also, I'm just like, I want to get to know the person behind the players because, you know, most times when they come to the league, there's a guard up, right? Especially with the media, especially nowadays, like, people are just like so mistrusting. You mentioned trying to maintain this divide too, where it's like, you're professional, but also you're covering them. Me as somebody that's like gotten snow. Players tell stories. I don't know, there's like objectivity to things. But I'm also like, it's so tough too. I want to know how you bridge the gap because, like, I think about it, when you go to a locker room, right? Fans think like, you can go tweet about whatever player. When you're in the locker room and you're talking to the player, you get to know them, they give you good sound bites or whatever it is, you know, and then you see their family. Like, you might even just have a random interaction with the family. Like, but you have to maintain this relationship where like, whether they're playing good, you got to be objective and how we cover them. How have you, how did you like, go about that? [00:22:52] Speaker A: I think that. I don't know if there's a magic formula necessarily. I think it's honestly just trying to be fair. Right. And I don't, I, I don't know if that sounds too bland or, or cliche, but I think that when you like, let's look big picture at life in general, right? Or. Or any issue. It's not A or B. It's not black or white. [00:23:11] Speaker B: There's. [00:23:12] Speaker A: There's gray in everything. And I think too many people. And I'm. I'm absolutely guilty of this sometimes, too, there are too many people that think they know and they don't know. Or they might know one tiny little thing, but they don't know. Like, here's another example. It has nothing to do with the book. And I'm not here to. Even. Even the little bit I'm about to say right now is such a small fraction of a much bigger story that I don't even know. To this day, I still don't even know. Let's look at a guy like DeMar DeRozan. And again, I don't even recall the season off the top of my head. But we come to find out after the fact that demar's dad has been ill and demar's been flying back and forth to California in between games. And while dealing with all that, we know a little bit about the fact that his mom's been sick as well. I want to say lupus. I shouldn't know that, but I'm pretty sure it's lupus. So any one of us in this room right now, let alone anybody watching this, if you're trying to do your job, I don't care if you're a professional athlete. I think that we forget sometimes that just because somebody makes a lot of money that does that suddenly not make them human and they don't have problems. Like, money just doesn't buy happiness and make. Make stuff go away. So if any one of us, no matter what job we're doing, I don't care if you're working at McDonald's. I don't care if you're a lawyer. I don't care if you're a professional athlete. I don't care if you're a sanitation worker, whatever it is, if you've got one parent that may be dying and another parent that is extremely ill, is that not going to impact your life? If you're close with your parents and trying to focus every day, even if you're not, Even if you don't have a job and you're in school, or if you don't have a close relationship with your wife or you're not seeing your kids or whatever it might be, there's so many challenges going on. So I feel like somebody else might hear that and go, oh, you're just Making excuses. They still at the end of the day, got to do their job. Got to put your head down to your job. But you'd be foolish to think that that doesn't impact. I know it would impact me. Would absolutely impact me. Just. And all I got to do is talk. And I'll tell you another thing too, on a much, much, much smaller scale, not to be as deep. I can also tell you again from like, I haven't traveled with the team since COVID and I. And I miss it, but it is what it is. But for the 15, 16, I can't remember 16 years, I think it was that I did travel with the team the amount of times. And I like to think I'm in decent shape. I'm. I'm nowhere near athlete shape. But I like to think that for a guy my age and whatever else, looking better than me, you know, I don't know. [00:25:34] Speaker B: I don't know about farm after this. [00:25:36] Speaker A: Well, I'm down with that. [00:25:37] Speaker B: Okay. [00:25:40] Speaker A: I look at and go, I would get off a plane at 2 o' clock in the morning and chartered flight. Food on the plane, food in the locker room, food at the hotel. Five star hotel. Like life is good. My body hurts, my knees are hurt, my back is aching. I'm tired, I'm dragging, I'm like. And all I got to do is sit and talk and they gotta. And they are playing at the elite level and practicing and putting their bodies through the grind and everything else. So if I'm tired and I'm dragging and I'm feeling it, I can only imagine what they're going through. So that always opened the door for me to cut a little bit of slack or a lot of slack to some of these guys when they have a quote off night or when they're in a bit of a funk because it might just be that their bodies are tired, their bodies are sore. The grind of the season. And from the outside looking people say charters and five star hotels and that's all, that's all true. And a lot of money and that's all true. But they're still human beings. So I go back to where I started with this in terms of trying to be fair and balanced. And I think that being fair and balanced doesn't mean you can't criticize, but how you choose to criticize and the words you choose to use. And I would argue that with most players. I just saw something today with Norm Powell, obviously former Raptor, and he's featured in the book. There's a story And I'm kind of paraphrasing it, but Eric Spoelstra going up to Norm Powell in recent weeks or something and basically saying, like, are you cool with being called out? Like, can I use you as an example? He's like, damn, you can call me out every day. Because I think it's in the DNA of certain guys and the right guys, the right players, people, because I talk about female players or otherwise as well, is I think they're not idiots. They know if they're struggling and if the criticism is fair. Not just like, he sucks, but like, why is he having an off night? Or what could he do better? Or what's the difference in terms of the way he or she is being utilized on the floor, et cetera. I think if it's fair and balanced criticism and not just hate, I think that a player, like, I've often found. I'm sure you're the same way. If you. If you were talk to insert player here. Like, let's. RJ Barrett, if you were to talk to RJ about a game he had where he struggled, you think he's gonna look down, go, oh, two for nine. Yeah, that was a tough night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I didn't have it tonight. [00:27:58] Speaker B: He'll tell you straight up. [00:27:59] Speaker A: Exactly. So if it's fair. But I think sometimes the COVID or the stuff isn't necessarily fair. [00:28:06] Speaker B: And I can say it's reactionary. I can say this is like teenager me. I wasn't fair for a lot of players, especially if you weren't. You know, I wanted a championship during those times, but I was still. You know, but after 2019, I'll be honest, I kind of cooled down. You know, I was like, I could care less. They can. They can go tank for. [00:28:22] Speaker A: For AJ to be clear. Hopefully. Hopefully the. The sound bite includes this. If this is ever chopped is. I'm a lunatic fan sometimes, too. Like, I. I feel because of working in basketball now, I still love the game, and I can still watch whether it's the Raptors or a game not even involving trial. I grew up a Laker fan. I grew up Showtime, Lakers. That's what got me sucked into basketball. So whether it's the Lakers, whether it's Raptors, anybody else, I love watching basketball. Go watch the CEBL or the OCAA or the cis. I'm into it. I love the game, period. But because I work in it, I find I can't be that fan as much as I want to be. But I am an absolute lunatic still. When it comes to the Buffalo Bills because I don't work in the NFL and I don't cover the National Football League and I don't cover the Bills. So I can be that. And they get bounced again. What do you mean? Don't they get sorry. As if you didn't know. As if you didn't know. True. Trying to chat you 100. It was a case. [00:29:13] Speaker B: Is my guy Todd, You a Buffalo Bills fan? Are you in the background? He's a Packers fan. [00:29:20] Speaker A: We'll share our misery together. [00:29:21] Speaker B: Shout out to Todd. [00:29:22] Speaker A: But I mean, I'd be, I'd be lying, like, if I showed you my phone right now and, and showed you the text messages that I've been sending back and forth to Jack Armstrong over the last like six or seven days. He's a Buffalo Bill and him and I go to games together quite a bit. I mean, and, and I mean, I would never want that stuff leaked out because the words I'm using, the language I'm using, and the, the, the animosity I have towards, whether it be the officials or the players or management after they fired the coach, like so. But again, so I'm one of those people too, so I get it. But I think that from a professional, whether it be writer, media, reporter standpoint, there's a certain professionalism and fairness line that needs to be followed that I think sometimes isn't. And I think fans. And again, I'm one of those fans sometimes when it comes to football, I think fans think they know, but they don't always know. And that's maybe where we've gotten in today's social media and the access to just get my opinion out there in. [00:30:15] Speaker B: So many different ways without any context. That's why I'll be honest. If you see my. I've stopped tweeting as much because I'm like, yeah, if I. You have nothing nice. Nice to say, why even say it? [00:30:23] Speaker A: Right? [00:30:24] Speaker B: You can say it as long as you say in like being critique being, being able to like, give suggestions or like how this, this is what I think. But not like tearing down players, which I think that's kind of what sports is now, especially with betting. Like, yeah, people are like, I don't know what the DM. The DMs are crazy nowadays. [00:30:42] Speaker A: And there's so much misinformation. I think that's out there now too because of. And listen, I'm not here to rag on. On social media. It can serve many great purposes too. [00:30:51] Speaker B: And I was one of them. [00:30:52] Speaker A: Like this show in the space that it lives in primarily. And stuff too. Right. There's so many different avenues and branches to quote, unquote, social media. But I'll use another example where it's maybe not necessarily as much criticism on players, but the information that's out there and the information that's accessible. And what can you, or should you believe? My son is 16 years old and, and you know, I don't want to sit here and be the, the dad that's like, oh, my. My kid's pretty, like, he's a pretty good kid. Mature and smart and balanced and whatnot. He, he, he probably do this show. He would love it. But he'll almost daily. And if not daily, at least three, four times a week. Hey, did you hear the latest about Ba Ba Ba? Hey, did you see the latest trade rumor? Hey, did you hear about this deal that might happen? I'm like, well, let's see. In football I trust Adam Schefter. And in basketball I trust Sean Charania. And in baseball it's like, okay, John Hyman and Bob Nightingale. Like a hockey Elliot Friedman. And okay, who? And he'll show me some clip off Instagram of some dude that's got 250,000 or 1.5 million. I've never heard of. [00:31:52] Speaker B: The guy doesn't cover the game and. [00:31:54] Speaker A: He'S like, the Raptors should trade blank. [00:31:57] Speaker B: Well, no. [00:31:58] Speaker A: So is this just your fantasy trade or is this like your, your sources have told you? And I think that certain people, not all, but certain people will latch onto that and go, oh, there's this rumor. Oh, or and listen, I see it even with major outlets now and again. [00:32:10] Speaker B: I don't want to get the clicks. [00:32:12] Speaker A: I don't want to throw anybody on the bus. But like, major outlets that are saying, like, here's the other one too. Headlines. Used to be, back in the day, headlines like there was a job for headline writers. Now the dude writing the article or the girl writing the article, woman writing the article for the website might be just writing their own headline too. Or somebody that doesn't know about. [00:32:34] Speaker B: Especially for these, like, blogs, type of. At least where I work, Toronto stuff, we don't. I don't do my headlines most times, but I'll have suggestions, inputs. But it's more so like, I see what you're saying. It's exactly like whatever can get the most clicks. It's like that's what they're gonna say. [00:32:47] Speaker A: Raptors to trade. Blank, blank, blank. Or rumor. It's not a rumor. Yeah, I could make up a rumor right now then. If that's what counts as a rumor. No, like, and that I think that's the problem we get into sometimes and then maybe that's where the frustration lies with some players when. Because again we're kind of going all over so many different angles with this. One of the things that always bothered me, I could even say this about personal life. Like I'm married now and happily married and in actually 20 years coming up this summer. [00:33:16] Speaker B: Congrats. [00:33:17] Speaker A: Appreciate that. But it used to bother me when, when. And again I'll even do it when some women would say men. Yeah, men. No, no, no. Some men just give me that, give me that one word. Some men. Because some might be 99%, some might be 9%. So just like when we do from a, from a, from a basketball perspective or from a, a player standpoint. I can't stand when players would say media. No, no, no, it's not some media. Yeah that, that's what I hate to media. [00:33:48] Speaker B: Cuz I'm like that's not like the stuff you're seeing. That's not how it works. Like that's not. We go like, especially the, the rigorous like fact checking before you have to come out with this certain article or whatever it is. Like it's like it doesn't get like for major publication. That doesn't, doesn't fly. [00:34:07] Speaker A: You know, I think, I think that's, that's the big thing I guess that I would say is just going back to it because I think I use the word professionalism quite a bit is that that's where hopefully then the reputation that you gain through the work that you do, the articles that you write, the features that you do, the level that you get to know players, whether it be high school, collegiate, professional, otherwise there's a built in trust where that player then can differentiate between this member of the media or that member of the media or this. Because I'll tell you we could, you can even break it down into certain levels within what, what you and I do. And I'm not saying that you' above me or that I'm above you or whatever. We're, we're all on equal footing in many ways. But I think there's a difference between what a team broadcaster does and says and how he or she covers the team versus what a writer might do and somebody covering the beat. It's not my job as the play by play voice of the Raptors to be sham Charani. So I'm not going to be the one that's firing on all cylinders, getting the latest info and trade rumors and speculation. What? That's not my job. My job is to call the game. And we're on a different. And again, I'm not saying I'm above or below. I'm just on a different plane within the landscape of the quote, unquote, media world. But I think that players maybe don't always see that. Some coaches don't always see that, and I think some fans maybe don't recognize that sometimes as well. [00:35:26] Speaker B: I'm glad that we're having this conversation, especially you just talked about, obviously, your broadcast when I was just, like, reading. You start off the book, kind of like going through it, talking about your journey. Fascinating how young you were when you got your career started. Like, I'm thinking you were hosting, what, pregame, halftime, Postgame, at like, 24, 25. [00:35:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:44] Speaker B: Like, did you pause for a moment and be like, what the hell is my life? Because 25 doing all that kind of stuff is kind of crazy. [00:35:51] Speaker A: It was. And I'm the first to. And this isn't the first time I've said this. I. But I am absolutely the first to constantly and continuously recognize the luck. There's always luck. [00:36:02] Speaker B: People don't realize that luck. [00:36:03] Speaker A: Luck plays into a lot of things, right? Yeah. The luck and the privilege and the opportunity and everything else. So I, like, I'm. I was very lucky, very lucky that at a. And again, I'm going through this with my own kid right now. At 16, I was lucky that what I thought I wanted to do turned out to be what I wanted to do, and I got to do what I wanted to do. That's a trifecta that a lot of people don't have in their life, period, no matter what path they choose. So at a fairly young age, and when I say young, let's say grade 10, 11. So around, you know, 15, 16 years old, I'm not good enough to be an athlete. Like, I. I could play some stuff, but I'm not gonna play at the next level, collegiately, university or otherwise. What's the next best thing? Well, could. Is there some way I could work in sports, talk in sports, somehow connected to sports in some way, shape or form? I think I might try to get into tv. I might go this journalism path. So I. I dropped every math and science I could possibly drop in. [00:36:58] Speaker B: Just like me, right? [00:36:59] Speaker A: And it was English. English, English and social studies and history and geography. Whatever it took to fill those classes and to. To. [00:37:05] Speaker B: To graduate the math grades would have brought me down. [00:37:08] Speaker A: Oh, I was horrible at math and science. [00:37:10] Speaker B: Don't ask me about algebra. [00:37:11] Speaker A: No. God, no. Keep it to addition, subtraction, multiplication, division. [00:37:16] Speaker B: Yeah, nine times nine is 81. [00:37:18] Speaker A: There you go. I'm with you. I'm with you. So I focused on that path I end up going to. Now I chose. This is a whole other path. I chose college over university. I got into three universities. I chose college. Why? Because when I started going to the information sessions and the visits and whatnot to the various campuses and I'm not here to knock universities, I think I. [00:37:38] Speaker B: Know what you're about to say. [00:37:39] Speaker A: I was like, man, first of all, I like the idea of being in a classroom of 30 people, not 130 people. And I like the idea of being taught by professionals that are still working the industry, not professors that maybe are doing it out of a book. No disrespect to professors who again, I wrote a book with a professor. Yep. But then I also like the idea of this built in internship placement in the final year at most colleges. And the one I chose was Humber. That was guaranteed, guaranteed placement. Now it might be guaranteed where you want to go. You might be wanting to work in sports and end up getting a placement in weather or news or at a newspaper, not a TV station. But guaranteed placement. So now I'm going to get hands on experience. [00:38:16] Speaker B: Hands on, yep. [00:38:17] Speaker A: And what happened as I'm coming out of college, so now I'm in a. Like I always thought. And my mother was a teacher as well, so credit to her and my father. But my mom as a, as a teacher supporting the fact that like, and again, we're going back like 30 years. It pains me that the mantra still exists to this day that university is somehow some way allegedly better than college. That's bs. That's bs, I'm telling you right now. But I went for the diploma instead of the degree. Oh, like, but my parents supported that. So I go to Humber and as I'm coming out of Humber and I get this internship at the Fan. And that was like not even my top choice because I wanted to be in tv. And at the time there was only one TV station, it was tsn. I know as a Rogers guy I'm not supposed to utter those letters, but at the time that's all that existed. Well, as I'm graduating, we've got a brand new team in the league in the NBA that's only been around for one season. We explode from one sports network to three as sportsnet starts and Headline Sports start. Headline Sports became the Score and this intern who's doing fairly well. And when I say doing fairly well, I'm. I'm going on coffee runs, I'm going on Harvey's hamburger runs, I'm editing tape, I'm. I'm shadowing whoever I can shadow. I'm pretty much doing everything but vacuuming the floors and cleaning toilets at the end of the night, doing whatever it took, whatever shift, however much they needed. Me, I wasn't getting paid. Like paid internship. I know most interns now don't do anything unless they're getting paid. No. Like, no payment at Young and Eglinton. Paying to park my car every day. It is what it is. This is what it takes. But then the luck of Canada, and specifically Toronto, and the. The landscape of sports journalism and networks exploding in the window of time that I was coming out of. So suddenly this, this, this kid that loved hockey. Yeah, but loved basketball and loved baseball is coming in at a time where suddenly Toronto's got this brand new team and this kid coming out of college is coming in at a time where one network has become three. And so now the opportunities as the Fan lost reporters and hosts and managers and engineers and producers and directors and editors, et cetera, et cetera, and they left the Fan to go to Headline Sports or to Sportsnet or to whatever. And let's just say 10 jobs opened up and they only filled 10 with three. I was one of those three. And I came in eight months out of school and started as a full timer. I went intern part time, full time in less than a year. So I'm 22 years old and I'm a full time producer at the station. And the show I start on is with Gord Stellick, the former GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs. So I'm working on his show one to four every day, but then I'm like, hey, can I start going down and covering the Raptors or doing something connected to the Raptors? Because I really love basketball and Da, da, da. Who are the original reporters at the Fan covering the Raptors? Elliot Friedman, George Strombolopoulos, two of the biggest names in broadcasting in Canada. Both of them end up leaving over the course of the next six to 18 months as Elliot left for the Score, Headline Sports, and George ultimately left. I believe that was when he went CFNY and then muchmusic and then ultimately cbc. And his career has just blossomed in so many different ways. But then what also happens in this window of time where I'M now a full time producer and a part time reporter, I guess job shadowing. I'm just the guy like going into the visitors locker room and just kind of nipping at the heels of Elliot and George. Teach me whatever you can teach me. Going into year four of the Raptors, the FAN 590 acquires the rights, the play by play rights. And the first three seasons were on CFRB 1010 in Toronto going into year four. And for every year since, the Fan has been the home of the Raptors. And the Fan going into year four hires Chuck Schwirski and Jack Armstrong to be the new play by play voice, voices of the team. So I'm thinking, man, I'm 24, I got the. This could be. And wait a second, you're way too young. [00:42:08] Speaker B: You're way too young. [00:42:09] Speaker A: Hold on. Barry Davis was the most senior reporter left. With Elliot having gone and George having gone and Barry was given the opportunity to cover the Raptors. And after doing that, that one season, that first season with Chuck and Jackson, Barry was offered an opportunity to move on in the business and go somewhere else. And he took that and the Fan was kind of left without a regular beat reporter. I've now been at the station for three years as a producer and kind of, as a, as a part time reporter and, and kind of learning under the ropes of Barry Davis, of Elliot Friedman, of George Strombolopoulos being down on the court with Chuck and Jack and kind of seeing what goes on. And they just said, here you go, sink or swim, let's see what you got. Now that opportunity would not exist today because it's a new franchise back then that's only now going into year five when I'm starting. It's, it's at the time a sport that many people, many people, this is not going to last. This team's not going to last. This sport's not going to last. The interest isn't going to last. This will be, they'll be gone within less than a decade. They'll be up and gone. And then as the Grizzlies leave, see, we told you this could happen to the Raptor. Like I'm telling you, a lot of executives did not think that this thing was going to last. So I think there was certainly hopefully somebody seeing some skill and, or at least some potential skill in me that like, let's give this kid a shot, let's see what he's got. And if I fall flat on my face, well, they replace me and they get somebody else in there. But one year became two years, became three became four became five. I ended up doing it for seven years. So as much as that was still a huge break and I'm not here to say otherwise. Like I would have been happy to be the host of the pre F and post game show for to this day, like still an awesome job. And covering the the Raptors as a reporter on the scene and on the beat every day for seven years was great and I'd still love to be doing it. But my big break, truly in terms of the actual broadcasting role as that that I'm doing now and it's morphed in so many different ways over the years. It didn't happen until almost a decade into my career and I was in my 30s. So people will look and go, man, you're so young. And you start. Yeah, I started young, but I was, I was grinding behind the scenes like a lot of people when they started. I'm telling you, I like talk to Gene Loretta from tsn. I was moving his car when he would come flying in late and oh man, can you run up to Lick's Hamburger and get me my dinner? Because I'm running, I'm whatever you need. And I'm telling you coffee runs and whatever else did all of that and did the, the late night hours. One of the first things I remember in terms of breaking news was working on like a Sunday night with Dan Dunleavy, who's now the voice of the Buffalo Sabres. And Princess Diana dies and suddenly a sports station becomes a news station as we covered Diana. [00:44:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:37] Speaker A: Or, or if we go back to 9 11. And that's at a time when I'm doing pref and post for the Raptors. But I'm Also working the 7 to 11 shift, they called it at the time Sportsnet Central or Sportsnet Tonight. And I would, I would do that show hosting from 7 to 11 talking all sports, basketball, hockey, football, whatever it might be, basketball, baseball. Anyways, 911 happens and for like two, three weeks we're a new station again. And we're talking about the potential of a world war and we're talking about, you know, relations between North America, United States and the Middle east and like all these things. But in terms of the broadcast position, position that I'm in now, it didn't happen until I was what, 31. So you still put in a decade of work building yourself to where you want to be. And even then I'm still trying to grow and morph. Like in terms of what's happening with the, the landscape of the industry, let alone the career and the job and everything else and where it's taken me. [00:45:31] Speaker B: I think now you're what, the longest serving broadcast duo and rappers history with Paul Jones, right? How would you describe that? I know you guys are pretty close, right? [00:45:39] Speaker A: Yeah, we are very close. It's, it's an honor man. It really is. When I think about, you know, the, the, the pairing of, of, of Chuck and Jack and again I don't want to take anything away from, from anybody else but the pairing of those two guys was, was so good that they ended up getting lured away from radio to tv. There's another lucky moment if that doesn't happen because that doesn't happen often with any team like broadcasting in any sport. It's rare. Like you might see one guy get the bump maybe like the radio play by play guy or the radio color guy gets pulled over onto TV and one, but both. So if they hadn't gone, maybe this door doesn't even open right if they just stop or, or if they pride Jack but not Chuck, or Chuck but not Jack. Who knows? The fact that they both left and I'll tell you, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm skipping one step too. Even where I'm at right now doesn't happen right away because I didn't immediately go from pre and post onto the broadcast. Paul Jones and Paul Romanuk were actually hired after Chuck and Jack. Paul Romanuk, longtime hockey play by play guy was brought into basketball and I was told to my face and it made sense. You're seasoned and you've covered this team and you know what you're doing but you haven't really done a lot of play by play, have you? Whereas Jonesy, he's done some play by play in the past, whether it be in college, university, whether it be as one of the original broadcasters on CFRB those first three years when Jonesy was working with Mike Inglis and Paul Romanuk is an established guy. So that's the team. So I was still just, just and I don't mean that in a bad way going to be pre F and post. After one season Romanuk decides he's going to move with his wife who's big up in at the time at least an executive with Coca Cola. She got offered a like a really high job in Europe with Coca Cola and she moved and he kind of said, and I'm paraphrasing for Paul here, but you know, you've supported my career in Broadcasting and hockey for all these years. It's time for me to have your back. We're going. I'm moving with you. So after one season, he leaves the job, goes overseas with his wife. And then the bosses come to me and say again, let's sink or swim. Let's see what you got. We're going to pair you up with Jonesy. So the luck of if Chuck and Jack don't, don't move on. The luck of if Romy's wife doesn't get this gig. All these opportunities. And I say to my son, to this day, I say to anybody here right now, is, is somebody might open the door for you. Right? It's up to you now to stay in the room, though. So I, I say this and I feel like I've used this line a couple of times now. I don't, I apologize, I don't say this with arrogance or, or, or cockiness or whatever is that I hope at some point along the way that the luck has also morphed into, well, you've stayed in this room because of skill and hard work and determination and your ability to transform yourself as a radio broadcaster, as a TV broadcaster, as a reporter, as an analyst, as a podcaster, as a radio host, as like all the different hats that I've worn over the years. So that's when I say about, you got to do what it takes to stay in the room. I can open a door for you tomorrow and I can bring you into that room. You got to stay in that room, though. And that's hard work, determination, everything that we just talked about. So that's. Again, I know, I just. No, I love it went on for a long time there. But that's, that's kind of how the career evolved. And you bring up, you know, longest serving duo. When I think of, you know, secondary man, Chuck and Jack and, and Matt and Jack and Matt and Alvin and Leo Routens and you know, John Saunders in the past as well and you know, respect to him, one of the great broadcasters unfortunately that passed away. Like, there've been so many great broadcasters that have covered this team. But yeah, I don't know, man long longest serving duo and hopefully, I don't know, where's the wood? Knock on wood, knock on, knock on wood. That, you know, we can get at least a few more, if not another 21. [00:49:25] Speaker B: Yeah. We have obviously interns working for us now. Shout out to Jacques, Jonathan, Todd for people that see what you do. Like, I wanna, I wanna live that life. Can you give us A behind the scenes to like, what does like, say a game day look like for Eric Smith? [00:49:43] Speaker A: A game day? It's different now, not traveling for the road games because I can do most of my prep and reading and whatnot at home. I would say a game day is, is a game day when the team's on the road is a lot easier now than it used to be. It might involve like three hours of like watching some, some tape watching recordings of like I'll, I'll watch the last Portland game or at least parts of it. Read up on, on like the last couple of weeks of stories and clippings and whatnot to be up on the Blazers, obviously, just staying up on the Raptors every day, whether it's reading stuff that you've done or, or that other writers have done and watching things, you know, on the various networks, making some phone calls and things like that. So it's, it's, it's at least two, if not three hours of, of, you know, kind of prep for the broadcast during the day. I usually try to get to the games, let's say 90 minutes before just to kind of do any last minute prep, last minute tweaking before going on air, and then the broadcast itself. Once you're on, there's no script like, you know, it's, it's just describing what you see and it is what it is. And you might, you might have a thousand stats and only get in five, but you've got to make sure you've got it in case you need it. And certainly it helps when you've got a broadcast partner and you can just have conversations. There are some people that do it solo and yeah, when you're solo, maybe you rely on the stats and the stories a little bit more. But, you know, I'll kind of steal a line that Jonesy has said for years and we've been working together for so long, so long. I think we steal each other's stuff. Is, you know, he's not, he's not a. I don't know if Jonesy's seen a movie in the last 15 years. It's like most of his references are like 20 years old or something. But he says it's because my, my, my TV is sports, because sports is the ultimate reality tv. He's like, I don't need to watch the Bachelor or whatever, Survivor or something like sports. [00:51:17] Speaker B: I watch Survivor. [00:51:18] Speaker A: I do watch Survivor actually too. That's the only one I watch. Yeah. But he's like, it's the ultimate reality tv. And he's right. And that's the truth of, in a live broadcast, you have no, I have no idea what's going to happen from one game to the next. And you just have to be there to be able to react and describe. On a home game, it's a different setup in terms of what a day might look like because there's still all of that prep at home. But then you're obviously factoring in your time getting to the games. I'm usually at the arena no less than two and a half hours before the game. And you know this too. It's, it's, it's getting there. It's getting set up in the broadcast location. It's talking to some players or some coaches or some fellow broadcasters. It's listening in on the home coach and the visiting coach in their pregame press press conferences and it's grabbing a bite to eat. And that's not just about getting the food and the energy. It's about who you might sit with at that meal and conversations that you might have again with a writer, with a broadcaster, with somebody that works at the arena. All these little things, conversations where you might pick up stuff that just adds to the broadcast overall. And when the game ends, usually NBA game, what about two and a half hours normally I'll then go tape something for Sportsnet and do something for the TV side, whether it's a post game wrap up with Michael Grange or with Danielle Michaud or something like that. So I'm not usually leaving the arena till about 11 o', clock, maybe a little bit later. So I get there, let's say 4:35, leave at about 11. So you're looking at, you know, about a six, six and a half hour window at the arena, plus the two, three plus hours you might do at home. You're probably putting in a nine, ten hour day like your average Joe would be at his or her job. [00:52:43] Speaker B: Yeah. What's the craziest game you've called? [00:52:48] Speaker A: I mean, it's hard to top game six of the finals. Just the emotions of that, like that's, I was, I was, I was doing TV sidelines for game five. I was back on the radio call for game six. And to know that I've got that, you know, that final call in history, it might not be like the same as Tom Cheek with Touch Them All Joe in the World Series moments, but to know that that lives in history is pretty cool. But if it weren't for that championship, then it's hard to not say Kobe's 81, which I know we literally just passed the 20 year anniversary, but that was my first season calling games. And I'm, you know, looking down at your coffee table here and seeing Kobe on, on the COVID one of these magazines and like, again, as a kid that grew up on the Showtime Lakers, and that's what really got me just, just into the game of basketball as, as much as it did Magic Johnson was, was, and still to this day is my guy to be there courtside in LA in year one as a team broadcaster with Jonesy. And we're sitting maybe 10ft from the Laker bench that was the visitors broadcast location. Like it was the end of press row was Jonesy, me and the radio engineer and then three or four of the, what I call the Gucci seats. Like the courtside seats with the, with the rich folks. Yeah, so it was Jonesy, me, engineer, I think four seats and the Laker bench. So it's like 10ft away. And when Kobe's coming into the game and you know, he never, never did do the whole LeBron big cloud or whatever, but you know, the guys are putting the, the rosin in their hands. Kobe's literally right in front of me. So like my, my, my computer's here and I'm looking up and like Kobe's boom, standing right there as he's putting the rosin. And when he's smacking his hands, it's all like sprinkling all over my laptop. At one point during the broadcast, Jonesy says to me on air, said something to the effect of, he goes, man, you're like a little kid right now like, like, like, you know, trying to get showered in the, in the pixie dust or under the fairy dust from Kobe Bryant or something. Just because he's like, the look on your face, I, I, and I know it. I was just like, just in awe. My jaw was, was hitting the table because it was absolutely bonkers what we were watching unfold. And, and I can remember both of us, whether it was him to me or me to Paul, saying like, man, he's got 60. He's gonna get 70. Oh my God, he's got 70. He's gonna get 80. Like, it just, I'll never, I can't imagine I'll ever experience something like that again. Like 81 and, and they needed all 81. Like, that's the thing people forget. Raptors leading for a good chunk of that game. And it was a close game and it just, it was, it was wild. I'll tell you another I don't know how much time we got, but I'll tell you a quick. Quick story on. On that as well. I. I always say quick story, and none of my stories are quick. But. So end of the game, Jonesy and I had the. I don't know if it's. I don't know if we were unique to this, but we at least had the foresight to say, hey, we got to grab a couple of these box scores. Yeah. And you talked about this in the book. Okay, it is in the book. All right, well, so somebody doesn't. Doesn't have the. See, I even forget all the stories that are. [00:55:46] Speaker B: Because you mentioned. You mentioned you got an autograph at Kobe's last also game. [00:55:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:51] Speaker B: In Toronto. In Toronto, coldest weather. [00:55:53] Speaker A: Did I mention the Jonesy component to that story, too, or not? [00:55:56] Speaker B: I think so. [00:55:56] Speaker A: I can't remember if I got into. [00:55:58] Speaker B: Jonesy was in the. In that component. I think one of the stat sheets had. Yeah, I forgot what, you know, I'm talking about. [00:56:03] Speaker A: Exactly. So. Well, I'll tell the story. I still want you to buy the book. Yeah, but. But so I. We have a couple of these copies, and all these years later, we end up in a room with Nico Harrison, right. And Kobe, and. Because he was Kobe's Nike rep at the time, and it's just Nico, Kobe, myself, and Jonesy in a room, and I go to hand Kobe my box score for him to autograph. It's the only autograph I've ever gotten to this day, even still, like, for me personally, I've done stuff for charities and things, whatever else, but for me personally, I've never crossed that professional line again. But I was like, screw it, man. For something like this, this is history. So Kobe takes the box score and Kobe Bryant, 24. And I'm looking at him like, oh, man. I go, Kobe, like, this is awesome. But you were wearing number eight at the time. He's like, oh, man, my bad. You got another copy? Yeah, I've actually got two. And the funny story to that was Jonesy couldn't find his box score, so I was clearly going to give him one of mine. But once Kobe screwed it up, I'm like, well, I don't know. Do you want the 24? Because I'm not. I'm taking the eight. Like, if you want the 24, you're going to. He goes, no, no, no. I'll get it done another time. And unfortunately, we all, you know, know what happened. And that opportunity that. That. That. That. That time didn't come. In fact, even as I say all my stories along, and I won't go too far on this, but the day that Kobe passed, I was doing TV sidelines for, for sports that and essentially for those that didn't know already, I would assume most people had it on their phones and would have known, but I was the one that kind of broke the news to Canada on Sportsnet, starting that broadcast. We were Raptors at San Antonio playing the spurs that day. And I remember right before we were talking to, to Nick Nurse, news came down about a helicopter crash in like the, in like the hills, Calabasas, I think, or whatever in, in California. And it's being reported that Kobe Bryant might have been on the plane or on that helicopter. The first thing I thought of is like, well, was there hell, a helicopter crash? Like, because that's news for sure. That's going to be news. So I just googled helicopter crash California. And like abc, NBC, fox, cbs, like everybody. So it's like, okay, we know there was a helicopter crash. Now it's a matter of trying to confirm, like the actual who is it legit that Kobe was there. So we as, and this maybe goes back to our conversation earlier about media and professionalism and whatever else collectively, San Antonio, Toronto writers, broadcasters, whomever was there, getting set to talk to Nick Nurse. We collectively decided we are not going to ask Nick Nurse about this because it wouldn't be fair to Nick. How's Nick going to know? What's Nick going to comment on? He doesn't know yet if this is like, true and factual and whatever. So we shouldn't be putting out any stories of any kind or any reactions of any kind until we know the facts. So we just did a regular press conference or regular scrum with Nick Nurse. And then about 15, 20 minutes later, it came in multiple confirmations, confirmations. And at that point, the TV producer on the, on the broadcast, Dan Gladman, at the time, he said it's like this game doesn't matter. Like Spurs, Raptors, we're doing Kobe for the next 30 minutes and it's like 15 minutes to airtime. So there's like, all right, any script that you might have had, any blueprint of a shell that you might have had for spurs and Raptors game, whatever, it was 57 of the year, whatever. I can't remember what, what, what actual game number it was that's out the door. And I just came on there. Welcome, folks, you know, to our coverage of the spurs and Raptors here on sportsnet. That Game is taking a backseat today to the unfortunate news. If you haven't heard, Kobe Bryant has passed away along with his daughter and yada, yada, yada. And we just ad libbed and went live for like the next 30 minutes with Sherman Hamilton, with Leo, with Matt, with Jonesy. And we just talked about Kobe and like, so you think about those moments where I had a personal moment with the guy just a few years earlier, you know, in Toronto and, and, and signing that box score and, and now, you know, and again I look down at this magazine. It's those moments when you talk about like what games stand out. It's, it's games, but it's also moments within the career, within, you know, tv, radio or whatever. It's, it's, it's not just the, the, the on court stuff. It's a lot of the off court stuff too. And it's a lot of those relationships. [01:00:03] Speaker B: Yeah, you touched on all of it in your book. Some of my favorite chapters, Jose Calderon talking about just like the hidden stuff. You hear all the stuff about TJ Ford and him go back and forth, not as, as what it seemed. Jose, the ultimate teammate. You got to read the book just to delve deep in that Jose Joy garbage. Hosa's chapter. I enjoyed his decision on choosing 15 and like, you know that stuff. So let's read about that. But your, your book also goes to like a little eras. The expansion vincenzity Bosch era, the golden era and beyond. What's your favorite era? Put me on the spot. [01:00:40] Speaker A: Yeah, you put me on the spot. But I would say it's, it's hard to, to say it's not the golden era and beyond. Because listen, the, the, the expansion era was awesome. To see it again as a guy that grew up wanting the game and to see it like I, I have the ticket stub still from my one season where I was truly just a fan in the stands was year one, because by year two I was starting to do the intern thing and following whatever else. I have the ticket stub too. I was sitting out in right field about a thousand miles away, but I was at the Jordan game like I was at that game in year one. So to see where it came from and to see the, literally from playing a basketball game in SkyDome, then SkyDome, Rogers center, and to see where it ultimately came to, where it is now, that's awesome. To see the grind that the team went through during the Bosch era and getting to know a lot of these dudes as people was great. But when they made the trade with Sacramento and they bring in John Salmons and Chuck Hayes and Patrick Patterson and Grievous Vasquez, and they don't make that deal with the Knicks and they don't send out Kyle Lowry and Lightning in a bottle again, Luck playing a factor and all that. And it just comes together and to see the way that team took off for damn near a decade and playoff appearances after playoff appearances and a conference final and battles with LeBron and then a trade of a franchise player and then ultimately resulting in a championship and then Covid and like, it's just so much happened in that window of time that it's hard to say that, that this hasn't been the most enjoyable and. Or that wasn't the most enjoyable. And hopefully now the beyond is starting the season because I think this is a playoff team. And when the dust settles, I don't know if they, you know, they got home court. I don't know if they went around or not. But either way, getting in, hopefully this starts our next journey towards multiple years in a row of making the playoffs. [01:02:32] Speaker B: How do you keep it fresh? Because I know you've been in this for so long, don't want to age you, but, like, because it just seems. [01:02:39] Speaker A: Like you love this still. [01:02:40] Speaker B: Like, you know, some people, like, I'm tired of this, you know, when you get to a certain point, what keeps you still going and like, enjoying it so much? [01:02:48] Speaker A: I think it's the fact that, that, you know, at the end of the day, and I don't want to sound trite or cliche, but we are getting paid to watch sports, right? Like, I'll tell you if I want to sit here and, you know, play the woe is me and play the little violin. I work when most people are off. I'm off when most people work. The amount of time, especially when I was traveling for, you know, like I say, 15, 16, 17 years, my wife was married into this. My kid was born into this. I missed so many birthdays and Christmases and moments as a. As a father, as a husband, as a friend, whatever else. But you can still, at the end of the day, go, you are getting paid to watch sports. You are getting paid to talk about sports. There are way worse. My dad was a steel worker at the Fasco in Hamilton for 37 years, like, over a pot of melting steel every single day. I can remember back in the VC days, coming home on the weekend one time after a practice, and I was kind of in like a crappy mood about something I don't know. And my dad says to me, he goes, what's wrong? I was like, ah, Vince was, you know, and I got along well with Vince, like, and to this day still get along with Vince. But I remember that specifically. I was like, ah, Vince. Vince was just. He didn't seem to want to talk today. It was tough to try and get a comment and people were frustrated and the practice ran long and this and that, whatever, and then whatever. Like. And I was like. And I look over and I noticed my dad's got this bandage around like his, his, like knee, kind of his thigh, whatever. I'm like, what happened to you? He's like, thing broke at work last night and this coil of like. And I'm making up the number. This like 500 ton coil of aluminum fell and came swinging down and nearly took out four of us. And I got hit in the leg and I'm like, what? Like what? Like those are real problems, right? Like that's, that's a, that's a real job. That's a real problem. That's. That's real life stuff. I'm getting paid to talk about sports. And I think the other thing that keeps it fresh, honestly, is, is, yeah, that's the love for the game. And you got to love what you do, or hopefully you can find love in what you do. But it's also trying to stay young, being around younger people and trying to stay relevant with and keep up with the changing game. Like, I'm not going to sit here and say I'm doing TikTok dances, but trying to keep up with the media and the way that things are evolving. And if you don't get at least up to pace, let alone try and even stay ahead of the pace, you are going to get run over. So you're almost forced to keep up with it, whether it's the culture, whether it's the language, whether it's the technology, whether it's the fashion, whether it's the interest, whether it's the way people consume. You've got to embrace it and try to find a way to keep up with it. [01:05:15] Speaker B: It's kind of like how a lot of the players in this book embrace the city, which is kind of cool. I think one of my favorite parts too is like, and people got to read the book how much people loved Carabano and it came in how much of a movie that was, you know, so like hearing people's story. I think TJ Ford talked about that. But yeah, and I think this is like A must grab book for like all Raptors fans. We didn't even get to the Canadians in this book. Corey Joseph's in it. Jamal McGlore, RJ Barrett, those guys. I don't know if I'm forgetting anybody else, but like such a, like, I enjoyed this thoroughly and I can't thank you enough for writing this. And it gave me like an appreciation just for like some of the players that I knew, but I didn't know. You know what I'm saying? [01:05:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:52] Speaker B: So, yeah, what's, what's been the reaction? Obviously it's been out for, for a bit. [01:05:56] Speaker A: It's been great. Yeah. It came out on November 4th, so it's been, it's been about what, what is that, 10 weeks? About two and a half months now. It's been. I'll tell you, you're putting me on the spot by making me say this. So again, I'm going to say, I don't want to sound cocky or arrogant about it, but it was a national bestseller right off the bat, which was amazing. Which was amazing. I was not expecting that. I was hoping it would do well, but I was not anticipating national bestseller. So like, even the, the literary agents are like, hey man, you can say for the rest of time, bestselling author, even if you never write a book again, which is why maybe I'll never. And I just say one and done. Yeah, bestseller. But, but honestly, reading reviews on whether it be on Indigo, on Amazon, or just even feedback from folks like you and, and listening to some fans and, and whatnot, it seems like the feedback's been generally almost entirely positive. A lot of the same things. Just liking the fact that people had this personal connection to a lot of the guys, or at least they felt that personal connection from what they read. And, and like, I mean, I had no idea what guys were going to say. I didn't try to lead them down some paths. Hey, only say nice, positive things about Toronto. It just kind of, I think, happened through the, the, the honesty and the, the openness that these guys shared with me and hopefully, you know, if there's another book one day, hopefully it's something similar to that. So it's, it's been great and the reaction has been awesome and I'm, I'm very appreciative of those that have supported it so far. [01:07:13] Speaker B: We, the Raptors. [01:07:13] Speaker A: Where can people get copies in Canada? It's, it's like Indigo, it's Amazon. It's your local bookstore. Like it's carried all over the place and it's available. I mean, Simon and Schuster has the world rights to it. I know it's sold in the States at, you know, Walmart, Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all that stuff and Target and everything else. So it's, it's, it's out there. It's readily available wherever you want to get books. [01:07:36] Speaker B: I hope you changed your bio to bestseller. Oh, if it's not, you gotta. [01:07:39] Speaker A: I don't think I did. [01:07:40] Speaker B: You gotta change it to. [01:07:41] Speaker A: Gotta update my LinkedIn like Fernando Mendoza or whatever. Right. [01:07:44] Speaker B: So, yeah, we'll take a quick break and what we'll do in the next segment, we'll draft our all time. You kind of, kind of spoiled yours. But we'll talk about why. Those are your five, your five greatest Raptors of all time. And let's do our top five greatest Canadian basketball players of all time. [01:07:59] Speaker A: Okay. [01:07:59] Speaker B: Aaron Smith, you've done it. You've been here, you've covered all the talent coming up. And I feel like your insight, it might be different from mine. I'm coming from the new gen, new generation. [01:08:09] Speaker A: Everybody's opinion matters. Exactly. [01:08:10] Speaker B: So let's, let's talk about it. And we'll be back after this break. This is the Canadian Basketball Show. I'm your host, Len Osman. Welcome back to the Canadian Basketball Show. I'm joined by bestseller author Eric Smith. No criteria. We talked about. We're going to be drafting our top 5 greatest Raptors. Top 5 Canadian basketball players of all time. I'll be honest, I don't even have my list ready. I'm just going to go off the top of my head. No criteria. [01:08:45] Speaker A: So you give me just the five or are you actually putting them in position? [01:08:48] Speaker B: I'm, I'm giving you just five. Like my five greatest. No matter position. [01:08:51] Speaker A: Okay. In order or just give me five. [01:08:53] Speaker B: I'm giving you my order. But let's. You said your order early on. [01:08:56] Speaker A: I don't know if I might have given it to you in order, but. All right. Yeah. [01:09:00] Speaker B: Who's number one? [01:09:01] Speaker A: Kyle. [01:09:01] Speaker B: Kyle Lowry. Why Kyle number one? [01:09:05] Speaker A: Because he won a title. And so I, I factor in the longevity with the title, with the personal and also franchise records and accolades and everything else. He's my number one. [01:09:20] Speaker B: Okay. Number two. [01:09:22] Speaker A: Vince. [01:09:23] Speaker B: Vince. Vince Carter. Why Vince Carter? I feel like he's, he's the first guy that when every Canadian basketball comes up, any player that enters the league, they talk about Vince's impact. Is, is that kind of why? And also because he was like the first, like kind of face of the. [01:09:37] Speaker A: Vince was not just the face of the Raptors. He was the face of Canada and basket basketball in Canada. Excuse me, he was arguably, if not the face, one of the faces of the NBA, of the league, period. Like I can remember back in the day, this, the, the, again, this was pre social media to the extent that it is today. At the very least, if not pre social media, period, the rumors of would you trade Vince for Blank? And you could pretty much insert almost any player in the league for Vince and everybody's saying, no, no, we're not trading Vince Carter for Kobe Bryant. We're not trading Vince Carter for whomever. Vince put Toronto on the map. But Vince put. And listen, I'm not saying anything you haven't heard a thousand times. Vince put basketball on the map in Canada for sure. And I think the impact that he had on a generation of players, and that's not to say that that generation wasn't also impacted by a Jamal McGlure or a Corey Joseph or a Tristan Thompson and so many others and even, even great Canadian players that didn't play in the NBA. It's not to say that Vince was the be all, end all and the only one. No, no. There were still lots of guys that young kids, boys and girls, looked up to in Toronto, in the gta, in Ontario, in Canada. But Vince was the guy. And then when you think of the way he put this, the, the city and the team on the map with, you know, whether it be the rookie of the year, whether it be the dunk contest, whether it be the, you know, playoff appearance and, and the first playoff win and the, you know, great series against Philadelphia and whatnot, I think there's just so much about Vince that I put him number two. [01:11:06] Speaker B: Yeah, for me, I got Kyle number one. To me, I think people that die hard, Raptors fans, from what I've heard, all put Khan number one. But there's always this like, how was Khan number one? How is he going to get his jersey? You know, like just sentiment. Outside of the Raptors family, I think. [01:11:25] Speaker A: Comes people that don't know the Raptors like, you know, stateside or otherwise. I hear that all the time. But I think Raptor fans know it and get it. [01:11:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I think 100%. Cause number one, for me, number two, it's tricky. [01:11:37] Speaker A: Okay. [01:11:38] Speaker B: I don't like Vince Carter. I grew up, I'll be honest. I hated him like as a, like as a guy that watched him play. I remember my first time ever going to Raptors game 06. [01:11:52] Speaker A: Okay. Playoffs. [01:11:54] Speaker B: I think it's 06 facing the New Jersey Nets. Vince Carter is the most hated guy in town. I think it was game two. I remember him walking out like I was sitting pretty close, shout out to my dad. I, I, I swindled him to get me tickets. He paid how? I don't know how much he paid. It was insane amount of money. [01:12:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:10] Speaker B: And I remember Vince Carter running out the tunnel. And I remember we all just like the amount of. I've never been in that type. That made me love basketball. [01:12:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:17] Speaker B: But I hated this guy so much because I felt like he broke my heart too, as a fan. So just like, And I don't know, I also, you can correct me if I'm wrong with this, but I feel like there's still like 100%. I think he deserved to get his new jersey retired, but I also, like, feel like there's a still a bit of like, revisionist history about what happened in that period of time. You can speak to this way better than me because I wasn't around him during that time. But I do feel like to be, I think he quit on the team and I think there's still some revisionist history around that. Oh, like him not dunking at points. Like, that's, that's, I think people forget about that kind of stuff. And I just can't put somebody that high that I think didn't value the team that I grew up watching and I love so much that I would have like stood in the rain at Jurassic park to watch this team on the big screen that didn't want to dunk no more and got me the worst trade value ever in NBA history. Luka Doncic, we could talk about that. But like, to me, that's the one of the worst trades in NBA history, and that's because of him and how he diminishes value. Let me know your thoughts because you can push back and you can tell me like, you bet. [01:13:26] Speaker A: You're dead wrong. The only thing I will say, I think it is one of the worst trades in NBA history. I still have Vancouver for Memphis being right at the towards the top as well. And I'm not talking players, I'm just talking cities. There's a couple things and I get into it a little bit in the book. I would agree with you that after all this time and even after writing this book and talking to the folks that I did that there still is, I don't know if confusion is the right word, but let's just go with for now. Confusion or not. I don't know. Is this kind of the same thing? The story is not as clear as maybe we want it to be and maybe it never will be. But the. The putting together multiple layers or multiple versions of the story, as I did in the book, what I believed at the time, what I thought I knew at the time, was this. I don't think that Vince outright quit. I think Vince was frustrated with the direction of the team, with the lack of talent being surrounded, being put around him. In fact, even as I'm saying this out loud, literally for the first time, just because it's come up now in the last few days, I haven't thought about it like this, but we referenced my beloved Buffalo Bills earlier. I could, in my brain as a fan, come up with this idea or this theory of Josh Allen could be thinking the same thing. You didn't give me any wide receivers. He didn't give me any weapons. I want out now. Is he actually quitting on the Bills or is he just upset with management and he's maybe not playing at the top level because he's actually quitting and dogging it? Or is it because he doesn't have the talent and he looks like not the same kind of player that's up for interpretation? Possibly the man that kind of dealt with all this and put all this together and put the wheels in motion is not here any longer to defend himself. Rest in peace. Rob Babcock, who was a very, very nice man. Yeah, I know. I knew him a little bit. I used to. [01:15:27] Speaker B: I think he works with the Bucks. [01:15:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I used to sit and eat with him from time to time when we would go to road games in Minnesota and he was based out of. Out of Minnesota or close by. And I would see him, really, really nice guy. He made a horrible, horrible trade. It was awful. To your point was that was because he made a bad trade, was because Vince wasn't playing as well as he was. So that brought the asking price down. But then we then factor in the news that came out over the course of the last 12 to 18 months, which I did include in the book as well, and tried to follow up and got some verifications on whatnot. In terms of Vince going to Sam Mitchell, who was his coach at the time, and saying, I want to stay. I will even come off the bench. I'll be a sixth man. I'll do whatever it takes. I don't want to leave. Sam takes that information to Rob Babcock. Rob Babcock, who had not yet actually signed a deal ink to paper yet pen to paper, said, I'm old school, I'm a man of my word. I already shook hands with the Nets. The deal is done. I don't care. We're making the trade. And he made the trade. Now, again, what's fact, what's fiction, what's bending of the truth? I don't know. I'm not here to. It's not my place to absolve Vince entirely from everything, but I think there's enough. Let's go back to where we were in Aragorn. So there's enough gray area for me to say. I'm not here to say you're wrong for feeling the way you felt, but I am here to say I think there's more to the story than what even I knew at the time or even still to this day. To the point where if you're not ready to fully embrace and forgive with open arms, cool. But I also think then you also can't be willing to just completely throw under the bus and stick the knife in either. Because if you don't know enough to be pro, I don't know if you really know enough to be convinced. So we can at least maybe find some middle ground. So then that takes out the personal element and we deal with going back to then X's and O's, wins and losses, impact on the team, impact on the city, impact on a generation of players. And that, to me, trumps everything else. Then that's the way I look at it. I'm not here to convince you otherwise. Because. Because I know he's convincing. [01:17:32] Speaker B: I'll be honest, I'm pretty convincing. I hated the guy. [01:17:34] Speaker A: I shouldn't say. I know he's on your list, but I'm assuming he's. So now we're really just arguing two versus four or five. Yeah, three versus five. [01:17:42] Speaker B: And I enjoy most and like, my connection. [01:17:44] Speaker A: It's still top five. [01:17:45] Speaker B: It's top five. 100 to me. Number two. And it's kind of sad because I don't want to put him number two. But I. I will just because he gave me the most happiest moment. [01:17:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So you're gonna say Kawhi. [01:17:58] Speaker B: I'm say Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi Leonard to me is number two. Just because I remember my dad used to laugh at me, you will never win a championship. [01:18:07] Speaker A: Right. [01:18:07] Speaker B: Like, that was, like, the thought, you know? But then this guy comes for one season, even though it's just for one season, changed my whole. Like, we had the best basketball player in the world playing for the Toronto Raptors. And I blame the CB. 24 is chasing him on the China and stuff, but I, I couldn't care less. I remember when the news broke that he's. That he signed with the Clippers and that whole Paul dream, Paul George stuff trade all went through. I was just like, I'm grateful. Like, I could die tomorrow. I watched this team win a championship. So a moment that I thought could never happen happened. So that's why I would put him as number two. Because you would argue. I think most people would argue 100% say he's the best basketball player to ever play for the Raptors. Like, talent wise, single season, to me, that trumps a lot of the stuff. And the other. We'll get into it probably just a little bit about, like, the DeRozan factor, like, how we felt about that, like the being unsuccessful. I saw what Dylan Brooks just said, too. We can get into that. But Kawhi, to me, just off the talent alone. Yeah, I got to put him number two. [01:19:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and listen, I'm, I'm. I've got him four on my list because I've got him behind DeRozan at three. And the only reason I put the rose in the head is, again, I'm factoring in longevity. I'm factoring in impact on the city. I'm factoring in relationship with the fan base and the organization. I'm factoring in franchise records. And when, when we throw that all together, go back to the longevity point, do you get to the point of knocking on the door? Eastern conference finals, game six against LeBron, and yeah, okay, getting bounced again the following year. And then what led to the trade? Are you even at that point to be able to want to, let alone need to, let alone be willing to make that trade for Kawhi, if not for what DeMar DeRozan did alongside Kyle, alongside the rest. So I still pay tribute to DeRozan for what he did and the building blocks that he put in place. And go back to that tweet of, you know, like, I got us when. When. When Bosch is gone and. And demar steps up. So maybe I'm too much of a softy or something. And again, that's taking nothing away from Kawhi. As I said to you about the Vince thing, we're just, We're. We're. We're saying these guys are top five players. But if we're going to argue over positioning. Yeah, I've got Kyle one, Vince two, demar three. Kawhi four. Which then brings Bosch into five. [01:20:35] Speaker B: Bosch number five. [01:20:36] Speaker A: Yeah, and Bosh. Bosh is there because of like man, he was, he's, he, he has a generation. At least the way I broke it down in my book. When you look at that generation, he was the best player for the team and one of the best bigs in the league and a multi time all star. And was it on him that he only made the past two years? Was it on the organization? Was it like multiple factors, but there's no denying his talent and how crushing it was when he ultimately left. And I don't. I'll tell you another thing. This kind of ties into Vince a little bit to some degree. I look at those that go, oh, Vince left, Bosch left. And so, and so dudes put in almost three quarters of a decade. If they're not having success, maybe it's time to move on. Even a guy like T Mac, I can't hate on McGrady for leaving. It was a different CBA in a different era when the league allowed players off rookie deals to be outright free agents with no Bird rights. And you had an 18 year old kid come into the league who could be an outright unrestricted free agent at 21 years old with no impact on whether he goes to Orlando or stays in Toronto. There's no bonus to staying with the Raptors. So what kid at 21 wouldn't take the bigger bag or the same bag in his hometown or home state and go like. So I'm not going to hate on a guy for leaving. So anyways, I'm kind of off topic a little bit there. But that, that I, I jumped ahead. But I gave you, I gave you my, I gave you my three, which gave you my four, which gives you my five. So who do then? [01:22:02] Speaker B: Three is tough because I, I wanna, I wanna put one guy there. But then I also just think about what Dillon Brooks just said and I kind of somewhat agree. But you gave a good point before we started recording that like no one was beating Bron during that. [01:22:20] Speaker A: Nobody beat Bron. [01:22:21] Speaker B: Nobody during that period of time, which is 100%. [01:22:23] Speaker A: It wasn't just Toronto. Go back and look Boston, Indiana, Detroit. [01:22:27] Speaker B: Nobody beat the Cavs 100%. But then I, and I'll say this on air, people that know me, in my personal life, I was the biggest DeRozan fan growing up. He was, I remember his first year betting with somebody just $10, I think this guy's gonna be an All Star. And people laughed at me. I just saw something in him I remember going out to, like, some of his meet and greets when I was a kid too. Like. But I also don't think that even if Bron wasn't in the way that he leads his team to a championship, that's kind of like what I. I just don't think he had that qualities as a number one guy to lead this team, get them over the hump. Which makes me kind of look at who accomplished more as a Raptor and whose story did I love? [01:23:17] Speaker A: Okay. [01:23:18] Speaker B: And I might like this. Might. [01:23:19] Speaker A: I'm. [01:23:19] Speaker B: People are going to come at me and be like, you're crazy for this. So what was my. I got Kyle number one. [01:23:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:26] Speaker B: Kawhi number two. Pascal Siako at number three. [01:23:30] Speaker A: Okay. [01:23:30] Speaker B: Cameroonian legend. [01:23:34] Speaker A: I just. [01:23:34] Speaker B: I resonate with the story so much. [01:23:36] Speaker A: So you're bumping. So that means that I value championships. That's fine. [01:23:40] Speaker B: But I value. [01:23:40] Speaker A: So you're either bumping Bosch, Vince, or DeRozan from the top of the five. Wow. [01:23:46] Speaker B: So I think. [01:23:46] Speaker A: Or maybe two of them. We'll see. [01:23:47] Speaker B: And I do hate how Pascal Siakam's story kind of ended. But just thinking about it, he was what, most improved? Yeah. Made All NBA, I think, at 1.2 All Star. [01:23:58] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:24:00] Speaker B: Champion. Number two. Like, that championship doesn't happen without Pascal. [01:24:04] Speaker A: Yep. [01:24:06] Speaker B: And I just. I just love his story. 27th pick in the draft. You don't think a guy from Cameroon that went to what New Mexico State would end up being a second. Like, and I think it's so hard to, like, quantify, like, what. What he did for that team and how huge he was for the Raptors. But I'm going to get hate for this. We're going to post our list on IG and people and be like, you are insane for putting Pascal siakam at number three. But number four. [01:24:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:24:32] Speaker B: I have Demar DeRozan. [01:24:34] Speaker A: Okay. [01:24:34] Speaker B: Demar DeRozan at number four. [01:24:38] Speaker A: So I already know who your five is then. Because you said he's on your list. [01:24:40] Speaker B: He's on my list. [01:24:41] Speaker A: So you're bumping Bosch. So Vince is your bopping Bosch. Okay. [01:24:44] Speaker B: And I enjoyed Bosch, but I also still think that for Bosh, too. I have to stop his jersey. They sell number four, you know, like, but I just. To me, he could, like, I don't blame him for going to Miami. I would have. I would have done the same thing. Start. But I also feel like. And I also think management didn't support him at all with. With the trades that they made and the signings that they had, but I just always wanted more from Bosh. And I just don't feel like when I think about the five on this that I have on my list, I feel like they gave me more in terms of maybe you can, because I wasn't around covering that team or like, covering basketball during that time. But I felt like there was maybe some a little bit of a distance from, like, what Bosh was as a star. And I felt like there was no question when free agency came up that he was gone. Like, I didn't think it was a debate at that point. [01:25:34] Speaker A: Well, I think, I think that also played into where the Raptors were as a team. Raptors. If we were talking about a team that had been to the playoffs two, three, four, five years in a row, maybe it's a different story. But considering they had struggled for multiple years as the free agencies coming up, I think that factored in as much as, as anything else. It was kind of time to move on, time to try something new. And then obviously, the opportunity that was presented to, you know, join LeBron and Dwyane Wade and together, like, I mean, hell, if that had happened in Toronto or if that had happened in Cleveland, either way, whatever the fact that the, for the three of them to come together, it kind of made sense. Like, I understood it. This is the problem that I have with, with lists like this, though. [01:26:14] Speaker B: And it's so tough because I honestly, DeRose and Vince are probably like, like you asked me an hour later, I. [01:26:20] Speaker A: Might say, Vince's for, and, and listen from, for me. And this is what I, I, I'm saying it for the second or third time now, is that it's really just arguing over numbers because neither one of us has taken anything away from a player like Pascal Siakam. I don't have him third on my list. He's probably number six for me. Could he knock out a Chris Bosch or something? Sure. You know, I would, I would argue that. And again, this is not, I don't want anybody mistaking this as criticism to Pascal because it's not at all. I like him as a player, but I also like him as a person. The human element of his story, it was incredible how quickly he rose from where he came from to where he went to school to then all of a sudden being in the NBA. I remember standing with Pascal at the NBA store in New York City when he first made the All Star team. And I, and I'm paraphrasing the question, but I pretty much asked him almost word for word what do you. What do you think your dad would be saying right now? His dad, who obviously had passed and that was a major and still is a major part of his life, let alone his career, his relationship with his father? And I said, what do you think your dad would be saying right now if he was looking down at his son, an NBA all Star, and seeing kids not just in Toronto and in Canada, but kids across the globe from all different walks of life, all different skin colors, wearing the Siakam name on their back? And he started crying. Like, he started crying and he's like. And he pretty much just said, like, he goes, I know my dad would be so proud. And da, da, da. And like, to think he'd only been playing basketball, forget about in the NBA, playing basketball for less than a decade at that point. That's unbelievable. Like, his story, his career is 1000% a movie. It should be made one day. Like, absolutely. So I'm taking zero away from him. But I. You could probably say this about Norm Powell or Marc Gasol or Serge Ibaka or Fred Van Vliet or. Or. Or. Pascal was one piece of. And a hell of a piece and a very important one of a very good team that won the championship. I don't know that he was ever the lead dog trying to carry the team on his own through a season or multiple seasons or a generation. And that's where I give, I guess, on my list for what that matters a little bit more, credence or cred to a Kyle or Demar or a Vince or a Bosch. And yeah, it was only for one year, but how do you not include a Kawhi as well? So that's where. If I'm looking at the intangible factors, it's taking zero away from. From Pascal, because again, I think I said it in the first three minutes of the show. Pascal, Fred, Scotty, maybe already, like, if we were extending this to 10T. Mac was only here for three years and really only played for a year and a half. Damon wasn't even here for. For three full seasons. There's some people that would give a. A great, great argument to Jonas Valanchunas. Like, they're like. And that's the wild thing. And that kind of goes back to the book. And I don't mean to bring it back to the book, but that's where. When you think about 30. Well, it could have been 30 others. Could have been 30 others on top of that, because there's so many different people that have contributed in so many different ways, whether they're top 5, top 10, top 20, top 50, or they're not even top 100, but yet they made an impact in some way. [01:29:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm going to adjust my list. Okay. I'm going to make a small tweak. [01:29:41] Speaker A: Okay. [01:29:41] Speaker B: I'm putting Vince ahead just because, like, you're putting. [01:29:44] Speaker A: What? [01:29:45] Speaker B: Vince had a DeRozan. I want to put Vince at 4 and DeRozan at 5. [01:29:48] Speaker A: Okay. Just because, like, Pascal stays at 3. [01:29:51] Speaker B: Pascal stays at 3. He's staying at 3. [01:29:53] Speaker A: To me, that's cool. That's cool. [01:29:54] Speaker B: I just feel like I. I'm coming at it now. I'm looking at it more of a. Like a logical. I feel like this list is not logical. It's kind of like my personal feelings, but I feel like I'm putting it. Vince at 5 is kind of doing an injustice to what he did for the game in Toronto, putting basketball on a map here and all that kind of stuff. So I can't put him at five. Even though I do think there's still some. Still some. Not resentment, but I feel some type of way. [01:30:23] Speaker A: You know, I'll ask you this, too. Do you think that. So 15's already hanging. So, like, to me, again, you won't put him at five. You want to. Not even in your top five. So maybe there's some people like that, but the dude's number hangs in the rafters. He's. He's got to be in the top five, and he should be high up, in my opinion. But when you look at the rest of the top five, how many of those guys are going to get their jerseys retired as well? [01:30:48] Speaker B: I think all. I would say all of them. [01:30:50] Speaker A: I don't know. [01:30:51] Speaker B: You don't think Pascal gets this? [01:30:52] Speaker A: I don't know, really. I'm not saying he shouldn't. I'm just saying I don't know that he will. I don't know that Kawhi will. [01:30:57] Speaker B: I think all of them do. I think Bosch does. [01:30:59] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know that Bosch does. [01:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:31:03] Speaker A: And again, I'm not saying they shouldn't. I'm just going based on right now, to me, the lock is Kyle, and I'm pretty sure that Demar is a. [01:31:12] Speaker B: Lock unless Drake has a say, you know? But he shouldn't. [01:31:16] Speaker A: He shouldn't. But. [01:31:17] Speaker B: But I'll say this, everyone. And again, Grandmothers are not 43 up. [01:31:21] Speaker A: I'd be more than fine with that. Put 23 up. Put 4 up. [01:31:24] Speaker B: Put 2 up. [01:31:25] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:31:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:31:26] Speaker A: I'M not taking anything away from them. I'm just thinking about you know would they do that for? I don't know. [01:31:31] Speaker B: I, I just think how long it. [01:31:32] Speaker A: Took just to put the one up. [01:31:33] Speaker B: I, I but I think that was a lot of like politics behind the scenes you probably know more than me but I'm, I'm saying too I do think now everyone in the grandmother's game the jersey retired. That's why I kind of think those guys are like I don't know who was the most recent guy that I, that I saw Derek go, I think deserves his jersey retired. I'm trying to think of other guys that there's one on. I'm thinking forgetting the name but guys that weren't start players are still getting the jerseys retired. That's why I would think maybe down the line Pascal Siakam especially he continues to do what he's saying his thing just the story itself. It was cool to when he first came back to play the Raptors all the jerseys in one section, cool as hell. But it's an interesting discussion like who, who actually gets their jersey retired and who makes that decision. And behind the scenes if beside I thought process he probably retires for Van Lee's jersey too. Well, you know. [01:32:22] Speaker A: But Fred's awesome, right? So Fred's awesome. [01:32:24] Speaker B: That's our five. We'll post it on ignore. Don't get me hate Eric's. Eric's list is I feel like really good. So I want to see people's thoughts though. I got Vince at 4, put him for DeRosen at 5. Dillon Brooks is going to. I don't know if he's going to love that list or hate it but we'll see what he says. But let's move on to Canadians. [01:32:42] Speaker A: Canadians. [01:32:42] Speaker B: I know I've kept you for so long. Let's just get to it quick. I thought about top five Canadian basketball players. [01:32:51] Speaker A: Go in reverse order. Go in reverse order. [01:32:52] Speaker B: Let's go. So who's number five for you? [01:32:55] Speaker A: So due respect to you, I don't think you, I don't even know how old you are. But I, I, I guess this will predate you a little bit but I'm gonna go with Rick Fox at number five. [01:33:07] Speaker B: Rick Fox. Okay. [01:33:08] Speaker A: Rick Fox is my number five. Why is Rick Fox, I think you know, multi time champion. Hell of a, hell of a. I mean I'll tell you what again I'm bringing this back to the book and I don't mean to. I even had to be schooled on or taught that the term or the description role player is not meant in any negative way. Role players can be all Stars. To me, Rick Fox was. And the reason I bring that up is I think some people hear role player and they just think like, oh, bench guy, second unit. Nothing wrong with that. That's why there's a sixth man of the year award. Like, role players are very valuable. Every team needs multiple role players, not just stars. I think Rick Fox was the ultimate role player, One of the ultimate role players and one of the true kind of trailblazers to a wave of. Of, you know, Canadian basketball back at a time where it looked like it was maybe going to start to take off and whatnot. So. So I got Rick Fox at number five. [01:34:06] Speaker B: And this list, I think in the next five years changes completely because, like, this top five is kind of like what they've done, I'm guessing, in the league and accomplishments. So, like, you'll probably have three of. [01:34:17] Speaker A: My next four are still in the league. [01:34:18] Speaker B: Still in the league. I think for me, everyone on my list, except for one, has won a championship. And this might be a controversial one. I don't think people like him, but I'm going with Tristan Thompson. [01:34:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:34:32] Speaker B: At number five top four pick in 2011. I'm just. He's probably the greatest big man in Canadian basketball history. Probably, you think? Was a standout high school player, and I think he paved the way. Obviously, the. The stuff outside of basketball, who cares really? But what he did, I think he averaged like a double double at one point. Like, I'll put Tristan Thompson at number five. And I just think he's an NBA champion, got paid X amount of money, shout out to Bron if he helped out at all. But I'm just thinking about. He was on that team when they won, came back against the Warriors. Um, yeah, I think Tristan Thompson just his career. You might not like him as a person, but you have to respect that this guy would get every single rebound killed the Raptors for how many years? Just on the glass and everything like that. And he talked a lot of trash. I think he talked trash recently. I like Darko. Like, see, I like that type of. And I think he's very misunderstood. And I might be biased because, like, you talk. We talked about it too. Just like the professionalism. Like when I speak to that guy post game or like at a. In the locker room, I think he's one of the best interviews just having a conversation. Great dude. But this perception online is kind of different. But Tristan Thompson, to me, he's got. [01:35:44] Speaker A: No problem with that. I've got no problem. [01:35:45] Speaker B: He is number five on this list. [01:35:46] Speaker A: I'll tell you this. I could show you my phone afterwards. The people listening just gonna have to, you know, trust me and take honorable mentions. But I. So this is the only question that. That Lee man gave to me before we went on there. He said, I'm going to ask you about your top five Canadian. So I thought about it and I actually texted Jonesy Paul Jones and I said, I got this list. I'm going on the show. What do you think? And. And Jonesy not trying to throw him under the bus here or date him too much. He's even older than me. And he wrote back, he's like, great list. And I said, change anything? He said, no. So I got the endorsement of Jonesy on this too. And what I should have said off the bat because you never want to offend anybody or whatever. I think I even wrote it in my text. Shout out to Tristan Thompson. Shout out to Jamal McGlore and Corey Joseph. And I mean, I could give other even guys that didn't play in the NBA international ball, whether it be a Jay Triano or a Leo Routens or, you know, even the. The father son combo obviously didn't play together, but Greg Wilcher, Kai Wilcher, Phil Dixon. Dixon. [01:36:44] Speaker B: We just had him on Phil Dixon. [01:36:45] Speaker A: I actually saw the. The one of the pictures, whatever Phil Dixon is in my text that I said to Jonesy, there's so many guys. So many guys. So when you give these lists, like, even going back to the rap, it's not meant as any disrespect. Anybody you're not trying to touch to, you know, forget about anyone or not pay. Pay proper attention. Even right now the current crop, like, where is a Dylan Brooks in another couple years, where is a Benedict Mather? Where's the shade and sharp? It could change. So going back now, my three, four. And I wrote this to Jonesy is like literally a coin flip. I don't care if you put them four. I don't care if you put them three. But what gives me the edge of going, this guy at 4 versus the other guy at 3 is the other guy at 3 has won a championship. So I'm gonna say I got Rick Fox at five, I got Andrew Wiggins at four. I got Jamal Murray at three. [01:37:34] Speaker B: Yeah, okay, okay, I have. I got the same thing. Wiggins at four. [01:37:38] Speaker A: Yep. [01:37:39] Speaker B: Jamal Murray, both champions. I'm thinking two. Just like Wiggins on that Golden State team. And I didn't think he would win. [01:37:49] Speaker A: You're right. Both champions. I'm not trying to say that Andrew Wiggins, but I'm saying. [01:37:53] Speaker B: And again, more of a role. [01:37:54] Speaker A: Correct. [01:37:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:37:55] Speaker A: And again, that's not to take away from what. [01:37:57] Speaker B: Kendra, we can't. [01:37:57] Speaker A: No, no. But. [01:37:58] Speaker B: But then also, like, we think about Wiggins and there was so much hype right the next. And I hate doing that, especially like following the next wave of talent in Canada. I hate the pressures that people put on these kids. You know, it's so tough too. Cause like, you don't live. You can't live up to that. When has anybody lived up to, like, I'm the next LeBron James, like, there's not. No one can. It's not possible, you know. But I think Wiggins carved out a great career. He was a 20 plus core at one point and I think was very key in that Golden State series to lock it up. Did a great job. [01:38:26] Speaker A: And I'm also factoring into, you know, representing your country, which Andrew did. And I mean, I was there in Mexico City in 2015. That was like one of the low lights of my career. Watching that thing unfold at the FIBA Americas and whatnot. That was just painful. What went down in 2015 in Mexico City. The Canadians were running through the entire tournament and then just boom. And all came falling apart. And Andrew was there for that. And kudos to him for repping that team. But the amount of times from such a young age that, that Jamal Murray was there wearing the maple leaf as well, and to this day, still doing so. And I. Yeah, it's a. It's a slight edge, but that's my four. Three. And I guess we're both the same. And then clearly there's two left. And I'm sure we're both in the same spot, the same two. And you might think. I'm going to say one thing. I don't know. [01:39:12] Speaker B: I love this. Let's hear it. [01:39:13] Speaker A: But Nash is two and Shay is one. [01:39:15] Speaker B: Okay. I was going to ask this because. [01:39:17] Speaker A: Like, you're thinking I'm older, so I'm old. [01:39:21] Speaker B: But I do think there is a sentiment from the older crowd that, like Steve Nash isn't as appreciated. And I'll be honest, I probably don't appreciate him as much because I didn't watch him that closely. I didn't cover him like you did. But tell me, just about when did Shea pass Steve for you last? Last year. [01:39:39] Speaker A: Last spring. Really? Last early summer. [01:39:40] Speaker B: Okay. [01:39:41] Speaker A: If Shay doesn't win the title, Nash is Still number one. [01:39:43] Speaker B: Really? [01:39:44] Speaker A: Because. Because as amazing as Shay is, and to your point, if we're having this conversation in a year or two or three, then in all likelihood Shea was gonna pass Nash anyways. [01:39:56] Speaker B: But. [01:39:59] Speaker A: If you don't have the MVP and a title and you're still, to me, not really a veteran even yet, you're still young in your career. I'm not giving you the number one title ahead of a two time MVP and multi time all star and one of the greatest point guards and one of the greatest CIS men. I'm not giving you a title. But when you go out and win the ring and win the MVP and have a historic statistical season, greatest, and you're already being talked about with Nash in that conversation now is one of the greatest point guards in NBA history and the leadership qualities that you've shown for your squad. And I factor in the age and the fact that you could still go up and you've repped the country and, and, and Shay gets the number one now. So Nash is number two. And I think Nash is almost acknowledged. [01:40:53] Speaker B: I was gonna say, I think Steve. [01:40:54] Speaker A: Himself has pretty much said, yeah, like he's the man. [01:40:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And I shout Steve Nash because I love Kobe, but also it's kind of cool he took, you know, we will talk about Those, those, those two MVPs, you know, that Kobe should have won her. Yeah. [01:41:10] Speaker A: So Steve Nash, man. [01:41:10] Speaker B: Yeah, Steve Nash, man. Canadian, first to do it. [01:41:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:41:14] Speaker B: Interesting list. Any other honorable mentions? We kind of went through it a bit. [01:41:18] Speaker A: I don't like, for me not. [01:41:20] Speaker B: It's quite clear. [01:41:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:41:21] Speaker B: And you can, I don't know, you said Rick Fox, Tristan Thompson. I didn't watch Rick Fox. [01:41:26] Speaker A: I'll show you the text. Prove I'm not, I'm not lying. Like Tom's on my list. Yeah, he was on my list for sure. But I think that might be just a, like I say, a generational thing because you know, you, there are, there are many older than me. And again, I'm not trying to say this in a negative way. Even a guy like a Jonesy might tell you, like, yeah, you have to give a lot of credit to a Leo Rotens, a Jay Tran or Phil Dixon, a Greg Wilcher, guys that played overseas, that had amazing careers, that repped Canada way back in the day. But whether it was politics, whether it was opportunity, whether it was expansion, whether it was the spotlight or lack thereof, like all these X factors that came into it, why didn't these guys get their chance at the NBA? Would it be different in today's day? Would it be different with expanded rosters or with more teams in the league or with. With the coverage? Like, would it have been different? And could these have guys. Could these guys have excelled at this level? The answer seems to be overwhelmingly yes for so many of those players. But even I'm not old enough to. To truly speak to that generation. So I'm kind of starting, like, late 80s, early 90s onwards. Even more like early to mid 90s onwards. And that's why a guy like a Rick Fox cracks my lineup. But your argument, or not even your argument, your case for Tristan Thompson is absolutely valid. [01:42:44] Speaker B: Yeah, shout out to. Shout out to the Canadians, man. [01:42:46] Speaker A: Just. [01:42:47] Speaker B: It's crazy to see just the. The rise in talent, man. So much players coming up that I'm really excited for Canadian basketball. The Olympics, 2028. We got to get a battle. We got to get a battle. [01:42:57] Speaker A: You're at that point. Yep. You're at that point where I thought it was coming in the last Olympic Games. [01:43:03] Speaker B: FEMA's always tough, but, you know, but. [01:43:06] Speaker A: I think, yeah, I think you're at the point now where you can't just keep talking about being among the best of the best. You got to go out and do it. And I know, like, Jonesy's on the board for. For Canada basketball and he says it all the time, and I think it's legit that you can't convince me that there's any reason why you shouldn't be able to be talking about Canada with the talent that we have and, you know, current talent, like even, you know, whether you talk about, I already said, like a Mathurin and Shaden Sharp and, you know, RJ Barrett. And the list goes on of all these great players that are in the game, Canadian players. You can't just keep saying it, though. You got to prove it. And look at the number of Canadians in the NBA. Second only to the United States and obviously, yeah, distant second, but that's obvious. But why can't you be at least as good as Spain, at least as good as Austria, at least as good as Lithuania, at least as good as boom, boom, boom. Go down the list. And then at least as good as usa. Why not? Why not? [01:43:58] Speaker B: Especially with Shay now just leading the charge, I'm expecting big things. So shout out to Shay, shout out to historic season. That's our top five list for greatest Raptors, greatest Canadian basketball players. Let us know. I'll post these on IG's and we'll get some. Get some people's thoughts. I'm gonna have to mute it after a while if you guys come at me, but leave comments, leave your thoughts. Who's in your top five of your greatest Raptors, Your greatest Canadian basketball players of all time? Eric Smith, we the Raptors. Go get your copies. Best selling author. Like, what are we doing? Appreciate it. [01:44:29] Speaker A: Thank you, man. Thanks for having me. [01:44:30] Speaker B: This has been the King Basketball show, your go to spot for the latest news, stories and analysis on K Basketball with my guy, Eric Smith. And we out.