Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Welcome to the Canadian Basketball show, your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. I'm your host, Lee Ben Osman. I'm really excited to be joined by a real legend.
Might be the greatest basketball player ever come out of the city of Toronto. He's a Canadian basketball legend, Mr.
Phil Dixon. How you doing? How you enjoying this weather? I know you're from Jamaica originally.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Are you wishing over that you were there right now? I wish I was because outside is so cold, right? Yeah, but I'm. But I'm doing fine things, you know, like on. Under the circumstances, I'm doing okay.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I wanted to have you on because I feel like everyone that I speak to in the basketball space consider you a pioneer in a way. You know, you're many that I talked to called you like you're the Andrew Wiggins before Andrew Wiggins. You know, the way basketball is in Canada, I feel like a person like you deserves their flowers for showing the world, like Canadians got talent, you know, and there's players like you and especially like the border next to us, people weren't really knowing about Canadian hoopers until you kind of popped up in the scene. What was that like? Take me through it. During the 80s, when you're coming out in Canada, did you realize at the time you were making history as a basketball player?
[00:01:29] Speaker A: No, to be honest with. With you at that age, I mean, my, my passion as a youngster was soccer, you know, like that. That was my main thing. Right. You know, and then when I got to like 13 and 14, I grew like 6 inches. So I just shot up.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: To what?
[00:01:46] Speaker A: To like, I went from like five, seven to like six, two. Damn. You know, in like one summer. Right? And that was going to my first year at Bathurst. And that was actually three years removed from coming from Jamaica because I came from Jamaica August 12, 1980. That's actually my 11th birthday.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: What was that, like, was a culture shock coming to Canada?
[00:02:08] Speaker A: Well, it wasn't so much of a culture shock initially. It was, you know, and what really got me was the winter because I've never really seen snow before. Right. And I came in the summertime.
So by, you know, October, I think it snowed in October of that year. And I was like, what the hell is this?
It's like white rain coming down, right. And. And it was just, was. It was a major adjustment for me. Right.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: How did you get into basketball?
[00:02:35] Speaker A: The kids. And we'd be playing a lot outside and I'm like, it looks like netball, because in Jamaica, it was similar, but we had a thing called net netball where there was no backboard. Right. And I played that in Jamaica a little bit, but not to the level as I did in Canada.
So, you know, I'd go in the summertime, I would see kids, you know, at the court playing basketball and you know, I had a couple of friends that I'd play soccer with. So we used to go and started playing a little bit. Right.
But, you know, I really, you know, took to it and you know, once I, you know, I developed that passion, I just put that time in and just started training and, and then once I Met Bob in 19, I think it was 83, 84 when I, when I met Bob my first year of high school, that was it. Yeah.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Bob Madele obviously passed away recently. One of the greatest high school coaches ever in Canadian basketball. Me and you obviously spoke for a first story I did in Toronto Star recently, just about him.
Um, we'll obviously talk about Bob.
When did you realize I want to take this serious. Did you have like, were you watching the game? Did you have favorite players and did you realize I'm different?
[00:03:45] Speaker A: You know what I, because of my neighborhood, we used to play every night, right? So it was competitive, right? And then there was a couple older guys, you know, like, there's a couple guys in particular. Like one guy name is Eric Grizzle, you know, passed away, God rest his soul.
Like, you know, I really like, I, I idolize him a lot, you know, and there's another guy named P. Funk and you know, Jim Clark, you know, so these guys were a couple years older than me, but they were the top players, right. You know, so I used to just be motivated, you know, to play with them and to play against them and, and, and those guys in the neighborhood, those guys really pushed me, you know, so that's where everything start is right in the neighborhood. You know, just the competitive edge, that toughness, you know, and. Yeah, and that's just, that's, that's just where it started.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: What was it like growing up?
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Lawrence Heist Jungle oh, man, listen, it was, it wasn't easy, man, I tell you, it wasn't easy at all.
Number one, you know, my home life was really the greatest, right?
So as a result, you know, I had, you know, I was sleeping in different friends, homes and stuff. And sometimes you get caught up with the wrong people and you know, it gets you in trouble, you know what I mean? And it happened to me one night, you know, I was sleeping at my teammates home, you know, Thinking that, you know, these people are my friends or family or whatever you want to call it, right? I was 15, right? And you know, I'm sleeping at 3:30 in the morning now, man. All of a sudden I just hear, don't move or something to blow your head off, man. I thought I was dreaming, right? So all of a sudden I look up, man. All I saw was guns in my face, man.
And I'm at somebody else's home at 3:30 in the morning, sleeping, got school the following morning, not knowing what the hell is going on, right? So these guys come in there, they said, oh, you're under arrest for five counts of armed robbery. I'm like, what? Like, who did I rob? What? And then all of a sudden I hear this lady in the background yelling and screaming, oh my God, I can't believe it. I've been harboring a criminal in my house.
All of a sudden they just turn on me, right?
Then I look, I looked at my friend at the time, my teammate, and this guy's looking at me like I'm a ghost. Like he doesn't even know me, right? So these guys arrested me and I'm like, yo, if I'm committing all of these crimes, you don't think he's committing it? I'm with this guy every day.
We don't, I play ball. I'm not a robber. I don't steal nothing.
So they took me away, took me to jail. I was there for like about three months, man, and Bob Mado, man, and Jeannie Hooper. It's not just Bob, but Jeannie Hooper and Bob Madele at the time were my coaches.
And these people they put together, man, and they hired the best lawyer in the city, man, a gentleman named Alan Gold.
And then, you know, they started having meetings and stuff, right? And then, you know, they said, you know what, Phil? It looks like it was set up and like there was a whole bunch of robberies that was taking place in the neighborhood, right?
But it just happened that there was two cops in the neighborhood. One cop was a black cop, his name was Pepper. And the white cop, we call him Salt.
So what happened was that. And at the time I didn't know this, right? But at the time, my so called friend, his mom and this Pepper guy, they were, you know, collaborating, right? And she would feed him stuff. But I mean, it's one thing to feed him stuff, but don't feed him crap to sabotage my life, right?
So everything was coming through them, you know, so we, we go to court now, man.
My Stuff got thrown out before I could even present a defense.
They just threw it because there was no evidence there, right? But they just had me locked up for three months. Brought embarrassment to my family. Was trying to, you know, it messed with my basketball stuff a little bit, too. Right? But, you know, this is where Bob. Bob didn't even second guess or hesitate, you know, I told him, I said, bob, you know what? I don't rob nobody. I've never had a gun in my life.
All I want to know is always the next basketball court, you know? That's it. I'm just. I'm just a ball player. That's. That's. That's my circle, you know what I mean? And he believed me, right, and went and got me the lawyer. Him and Mrs. Hooper and the rest is history, you know?
[00:07:56] Speaker B: Yeah. What was it like? You get to jail, obviously, for something you didn't commit.
[00:08:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: What's going through your mind, obviously, at the time, rising as a player, and then what's going through your mind when you're there? And it's like, is, this is my life ruined?
[00:08:08] Speaker A: I was. Yeah, I. I was panicking. And. And then my dad at the time lived in London, right?
So every weekend he'd come up and visit me, right? And he would just, you know, he would. He tried to keep me grounded, you know, and then Bob would visit me as well, you know what I mean? So I had people in my corner as well, you know, that would come and visit me, you know what I mean? And, you know, and so that was the stuff I kind of look forward to, right? You know, was those positive stuff. But when they left and they were gone, and then I'm there by myself, you know, couple of the guards, them started opening the gym for me in the jail. Oh, in the jail. And then I started training, and then my game even got better. I was spending. They would give me like two, three hours a day for myself.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: You said you get everybody to work, huh?
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Oh, yes, I was just. Yeah, I was just working on my game like crazy, man. And it just so happens that the day I came out of jail, I went straight to a tournament, and all the guards in the jail came to the tournament to watch me play, man. We won the tournament. I won the mvp. And they were all there just celebrating for me, man. So that part of it, it turned out kind of in a positive way, you know, Even though I went through a whole bunch of crap, you know, in the end, you know, it turned out, you know, it turned out in a positive way.
And I mean it's all, you know, with the help of Bob and Mrs. Hooper and if I didn't have those people in my life, man, my, my life could have gone so many different ways, you know, I could have been in jail or I could have been dead, you know, who knows, right?
[00:09:32] Speaker B: How did you meet Bob? Tell me about that first time.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: My first time meeting Bob was grade 9 Bathurst Secondary High School.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: First impressions of him?
[00:09:43] Speaker A: First impression. Well, I didn't know him, you know what I mean? But when I first met him, seemed like a really nice man. What I miss miss Hooper. She was really nice and, and both of them were co coaches, right. So Ms. Hooker was more of a disciplinarian. Right. Strict, you know, fair, you know, but very structured. Okay. Bob was the same way, but just a bit more lenient. You know, With Bob you could kind of compromise and you know, but with Ms. Hooper, you have to have a great excuse for her to even bend if not she. You know what I'm saying? So like both of them have impacted my life in so many ways, you know, and it's all, it's all in a positive way, right? So I was lucky to have them, you know.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: What made Bob so special as a coach? We talk about it because so much outpour, right, since his passing. What made Bob Mao such one of the greatest coaches in Canadian basketball history?
[00:10:38] Speaker A: Just, he's, he's. He's a man of integrity, he's honest, you know, he speaks the truth, you know, he's caring, he's loving, you know, and he's an extremely hard worker. And just talk about just loyalty, you know what I mean?
If Bob is your friend, you've got a great friend because he's somebody that would do anything for you. It doesn't matter, doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter what color you are, it doesn't matter where you come from.
If you need help, he's going to be there for you. And that's just who he is. Like I've never ever met a person like Barbado. Never. Never.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: How'd you find out about his passing? And obviously it's been a tough.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: My son because Bob was actually the coach of my grandson Julius.
And you know what's so crazy, man? Because I just about to call Bob, you know, because do my annual stuff, you know, Happy New Year stuff, right the morning and then Jordan called me, my son, Jordan called me and he's like dad. I was like, yeah, what's up?
He's like, man, I got some bad news to tell you.
And I was like, man, I. I can't deal with no bad news right now, man. And he's like, no, pops, man, it's Bob. I was like, what?
And then when he says. I said, what happened to Bob? And then when he told me, man, oh my God, man, I feel like someone just stabbed in my heart, man.
Man, that crushed me, bro.
I dropped the phone. I just couldn't believe it.
Every time I think about it, man, it just. It just, it shatters my heart, man.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: What's it been like seeing so many people talk about stories. You talked about how he saved you. You know, what's that been like? Seeing so many people talk about how he impacted so many lives within Canadian basketball. A lot of people talked about they would have been locked up, saved them.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: Nobody knows Bob like me. I lived with Bob for so many years, for many years.
Even in university, I still live with Bob.
Even when I was in Utah, I come home in the summertime, I would go stay with Bob.
I got custody of my son Jordan when I was 19.
And when I was away in school, when I was away playing professional basketball, my son is with Bob, you know what I'm saying?
So I know this man like the back of my hand.
And when I tell you there's nobody like him, there's nobody like him.
Nobody like. You know, he has a twin sister, Paulette.
She has a beautiful soul. She's sick right now.
Very similar to Bob. But Bob still stands alone. Jim is a really nice man. His older brother, he's very nice, you know, he's. He's a nice guy as well. But Bob is still alone. Bob is still stand on his own.
[00:13:36] Speaker B: Yeah, man, I remember you telling me stories too. How he'd opened up the gym early in the morning. Tell me about those sessions. What were they like? And how did that made you the player that you are?
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I mean, we would. Six o' clock in the morning, we would go to the gym and first we'd. First we'd go to the swimming pool and then we'd thread for like 45 minutes. Let's do the conditioning. And then we'd go in the gym and then we just go for like an hour. And this is before basketball season even started, you know what I mean? And we would do this for the whole year, you know, and even after basketball season's done, in the summertime, in the morning time, because he'd have access to the gym, right? So we just take advantage of that and we Would just go and work out and I'd bring my son with me, right.
And then after a while, other kids would join us, you know, and even when I left and I'm off doing my thing, he's doing the same thing for other kids, you know what I mean? So it's just who the kind of person Bob is. It's just like Bob made. It was. He was like a gift.
It's like God just said, you know what?
You guys are going to have him for 75 years, but then. Then I'm taking him back, so enjoy him while he's. While he's there.
But we're gonna take him, you know, and that's what happened with Bob, man.
[00:14:53] Speaker B: What do you think his legacy is in the Canadian basketball team? I'm guessing a lot of people have reached out to you in the past few weeks and talked to you, and I'm guessing you shared stories with a lot of people. What do you think his legacy is?
[00:15:04] Speaker A: Oh, his. Man, his legacy will live on. He has a great legacy.
Here's a guy who could have gone to the States.
He had opportunity to coach, you know, high school in the States, university in the States.
But he says, no, my calling is here. My calling is to stay locally and to work with the kids. I'm here and impact their lives. And that's what he did, you know, and. Yeah, so his legacy will live on through all of us, through me, through all of his players, through everybody who has. Who he has impacted, you know, and. Yeah, it's. Man, I. I stuff I do now is because of Bob, you know what I mean? I. I created a basketball club because of Bob, you know? Yeah. I run my basketball camps because of Bob, you know, so, yeah, he is.
He has done so much for me. Where I used to always ask him, you know, how can I ever repay you?
And he always just tells me, do something nice for somebody else. Make a difference in somebody else's life, you know, impact their life in a positive way.
And. And that's, you know, it's rewarding for. For me. Right.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Yeah. How cool was it your grandson was playing for him just recently, too?
[00:16:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: What was that full circle moment? Kind of like seeing them win the Humber Classic?
[00:16:25] Speaker A: I was there watching that.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: What was that like?
[00:16:27] Speaker A: That was amazing, man. That was so surreal. It was just.
It was. Oh, man, it was. It was a beautiful feeling.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: You want it?
[00:16:34] Speaker A: No.
[00:16:34] Speaker B: You won that, too.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: You won the tournament. And I just reflect back to when I played in that tournament, and I won it as a Player.
And I think my son even played in that tournament and won it, too. Right.
So it was kind of neat, you know, that all three of us were able to experience that generations. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? And it just reflects back to Bob. Bob called me about three months ago and he said to me, philip, you know, you got to come by the house and pick up, you know, your scrapbooks and stuff and some of your videos and stuff. And. And I was like, yeah, I'll come by soon. Bob, you know, work and stuff. You know, he be like, you better come by soon, man, because, you know, because when I die, they're just going to burn that stuff. And I was like, die?
I was like, what? I was like, man, you're going to be coaching my great grandson, you know, so now I'm reflecting back, you know, like three months ago, is as if he was telling me something, you know what I mean?
Yeah, man. And it's just.
I think about a conversation all the time. Yeah.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: How competitive were those Bathurst teams? Tell me about it. Were y' all the best team during that time under Mato, you as a star? What was that like? And what was the basketball scene?
[00:17:45] Speaker A: Oh, no, we had. We had a handful of teams out that was really good back in those days, like Running Meat, Oakwood, George Harvey, Eastern Commerce, like a lot of the teams in the city was very competitive. Once you. If you're able to beat the teams in the city and get outside the city, then everything else is fairly easy. Right. Because only one or two teams are able to leave from the city and go to officer. And even St. Mike's had a good team back then.
[00:18:11] Speaker B: Mike's. Yeah.
[00:18:12] Speaker A: Yeah, they had a pretty good team then. So it was very competitive. Yeah.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: Obviously officer was the biggest thing. How many officer titles did you win?
[00:18:19] Speaker A: I won. I believe I won three.
[00:18:21] Speaker B: Three?
[00:18:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Couple of them was like Double A. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: It's crazy, too, because you think about it now, there's officer's still a thing, but it's not as competitive. It's not like everyone is now at a prep school.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: It's outside the city. What are your thoughts on that? Someone that grew up in the city played basketball in, like, these competitive rivalries. Right. There were so many good teams. I'm thinking about the Eastern Commerce, two of the worlds, you know.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I mean, the game has evolved so much. Right. Like, back when I played, we didn't. We didn't have the Toronto Raptors. Right. So now they got the Raptors, and, you know, kids are getting paid in college. When I went to college, you know, you're getting paid, but it's like under the table or around the corner, you know, two boosters. So it's a lot different now. You're getting paid as if you're millions, as if you're pro athlete. Right.
So the dynamics have changed, man.
So, you know, kids, them right now, like, they look at it as a business, you know, even the parents, right. So they're trying to get their kids, you know, the best trainers, you know, get them to the best prep school to get the best exposure, to get to the ultimate package, which is to get. Is to make that money. Right? Yeah.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: Have you gone to a prep school game? Have you seen like, what that landscape kind of are you like, I. I stay away from it. I enjoy what, you know, what's pure.
[00:19:37] Speaker A: You know, I used to coach at a prep school as a med. Oh, yeah. I coach at a prep. I used to coach at mentor prep for a number of years, and then I had a few kids that came through the prep school system and went on. Right. Because you kind of got to adapt to what's around you as well. Right. Because that's what the kids are more. Right. And it was like a stepping stone for them to get to college. Right. And it was a private school, you know, where, you know, they were able to get a free education, you know, if they come there, you know, they perform one on the court, their tuition is free, and by that they can get some exposure and then go on to play in the U.S. right. So with. And they had like a prep league as well in Toronto and then a prep league in the U.S. right. So it, you know, so it was just more. It was more basketball for the kids to play in.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Yeah, obviously. Better opportunities.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: Better opportunities, yeah.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: People that have, like, listened to this podcast, they've heard me complain about the lack of culture. I'm like a broken record. The lack of culture in Toronto's basketball scene. You know, there's so many schools out outside the gta, that kind of stuff.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: We need to work together more, I think.
Yeah. And we're not doing that. We rather. We rather just take our team and go to the US and work with somebody in the US Opposed to put together and build a dynasty here.
Because if you look in the NBA, like every year, we're getting two or three top Toronto players going into the draft. Right.
And that's going to happening. That's going to keep happening over and over.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: How, like when you're coming up.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: What was that like, being the guy out of the city?
So many. How many college offers did you have coming out?
[00:21:07] Speaker A: What was your recruitment? I had well over 100.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: 100?
[00:21:10] Speaker A: Well over 100.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: What was that like when you're dealing with all those schools pulling you, you know? Did you go out many visits?
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Like I said, oh, yeah. I went in about seven, bro. I was taking. Thank. Like I said, this is Bob Mao again.
Like, Bob was just.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: He handled it.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, man. It was just so much, man. It was just a lot of pressure, right?
And. And the one time I didn't listen to Bob, I regretted it. And because Bob initially didn't want me to go to UConn, he was like, man, that guy's slimy, man. There was an assistant coach. He was just promising me the moon and giving me. And like I said, Bob is a man of integrity.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Doesn't work that way.
[00:21:46] Speaker A: Bob is like, Philip.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: He hide it.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: He saw it. He's like, philip, don't take it. Philip. Nope, nope. Philip. Nope, nope. I'm against that. Philip. So you know what I mean? And I still, you know what I mean? You know me. I'm a young kid, you know, impressionable, thinking that this stuff is on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Bob is like, hell, no.
So I went against him, and I, you know, get caught up in that crap, end up didn't. Didn't work out.
So now I end up falling back into the pool now. So all of a sudden, all these schools just start calling like crazy.
And I just made a promise to myself. I said, bob, you look at all these schools. Whichever school you think I need to go, you let me know, and I'm going there. And that's it.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: I learned my lesson.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: That's it.
And that's it. And it's all these different schools kept calling, right? And then he fell in love with Rick Magieris. And then he's like, you know what, Philip? I think Utah is a school for you. And I said, okay, that's it. I'm going to Utah.
[00:22:44] Speaker B: How did you handle all the pressures? Because I look back now.
[00:22:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: Like, when I was doing the story on Bob, I was searching up so much Bathurst Heights, like, Weester. It's crazy now, at least at my. At my. Where I work at the Toronto Star. So many. There's so much coverage of high school basketball back then. Now there's none. Like, there's no. Like, I do some stories covering the next wave of talent, but there's not many. Like, newspapers don't cover it as Heavily, you know, anymore.
[00:23:09] Speaker A: I saw that.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: But during your time, you were in the paper, like, every week. What was that like, getting.
[00:23:15] Speaker A: It was crazy. Everyone reaching out to you and the sun. It was crazy. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Because back then, we didn't have no social media. Right. So. Oh, yeah. And the high school basketball coverage was a big deal. The gyms were packed, the games were packed.
So back then, it was just so much more intense. Right. It was so much more passion. You know, people were coming from all over to watch you play. It's like you had, like, a following.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: You know, people would leave from other high schools to come and watch you guys play.
So it was, man, it was fun, man. It was.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: How would you think you would deal with the social media aspect?
[00:23:48] Speaker A: Say. Say. Oh, my God.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Say if that was added to now how you're dealing with things, how would you have dealt with that?
[00:23:54] Speaker A: Oh, who knows? I'd be in serious trouble, bro.
It'll be crazy. Let's just say that. Yeah.
[00:24:00] Speaker B: Because I think about it now, there's so much pressures on kids now.
They get.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: There's cameras everywhere, everywhere after games.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: You probably see it in two. Like, everyone's lined up at the bass lines, ready to record.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: You got to be in your P's and Q's, man. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it's. It's. It's a different time now, Right? It's a different time.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: So when you're deciding on a school, like, you talked about going on those visits, Was there a school that you wanted to visit? You're like, damn, this is crazy. When you're looking at the college life, what was that like during that time?
[00:24:27] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, it was lovely. Especially the one like, Florida State.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: What was that like?
[00:24:32] Speaker A: Oh, no weather. That was just amazing. And those guys, they wine and dine you, right?
[00:24:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: You know, so, yeah, man. And the campus was beautiful. The whole setup was beautiful.
You know, and you go to watch a football game and just that energy alone, you know, it's 100,000 fans watching the game. Right. And you're like, oh, my God. And, yeah, it's just. It's just.
It's a different environment. It's a different lifestyle, Right.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Were many guys getting D1 offers during that time? What was that?
[00:25:01] Speaker A: It was more of a handful of guys. It wasn't like. It wasn't like, how it is now. Yeah.
[00:25:05] Speaker B: So what was it like when you're going through that understanding how to move and, like, deal with now? I feel like everyone.
There's A. Because, like, you're. I kind of look at you kind of like as a guinea pig in a way.
[00:25:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: You're going through it. You talk about 100 plus offers and you're learning as.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: As you go now.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: It's like everyone has somebody, they. There's a blueprint, you know, to everything.
[00:25:25] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:25:26] Speaker B: What's that like, what was it like going through it? Was there stuff that you're like, I wish I knew. I wish I knew about this. I wish I knew about that. That was like, it's tough. But also like, that's why we consider you a pioneer. You. You did it so no one else has to do it now.
[00:25:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, like I said, it was a learning experience, right. And like I said, Bob was like a buffer, you know what I mean? Any issues or questions I have, I'd be on the phone with him, I'd be talking to him and concerns and, you know what I mean? There's even a couple times where, you know, I'd be like, man, I got to get out of here, man. This coach is, you know, he's calling me all kinds of names, he's swearing and he's like, you know, not every coach is going to be like me. Right. You know, that's just his personality. That's who he is. Right. And that was my initial thought. Then all of a sudden, he's doing this to all the other players. Right. So it's like you're learning different people, you're adjusting and you're evolving. Right.
So for the first year was a learning curve, big time. But then afterwards was smooth.
[00:26:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
Was there a moment where you realized I'm the top guy? Where it's like, everyone is.
I know you played some competition in the states. What was that like during that time? Was there much where you travel or like, you like?
[00:26:33] Speaker A: But before I got hurt, the first. My first six game, I averaged like 20, 21 points points a game. And then I got hurt. So one thing about me, like, I've always been a confident player like that, that never wavered at all. You know what I mean? Because I know. And I just always had confident in my game because I know the time I put in, I know what's going to happen. I know. You know, I used to put in three, four hours a day, man. So confidence was never an issue or a concern. Right.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
You get to Utah, what's your first impressions of the school? Because now I hear a lot of stories about Utah as being, you know what it's like over there, what was it like for you? Going, I'm guessing completely different from the city of Toronto.
[00:27:14] Speaker A: It was definitely a culture shock for sure, because I've never been around so many white people in my life. Right.
So initially that was. But. Yeah, but some of them was, man, they were nice, man. And they. And you being an athlete, right.
Obviously they're going to treat you a little bit different, right?
But. Yeah, but some of my best friends today still lives in Utah till this day. You know what I mean? I go back every so often. Right.
We had a reunion in 2017.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: What was that like?
[00:27:42] Speaker A: It was fun. A lot of people, a lot of us, it's age. Right. Coach passed away in 2012, so he wasn't there, but the assistant coaches was all there.
Yeah, it was, it was fun. You know, it was fun to see all teammates and stuff.
But my initial thought of Utah was Salt Lake City is a beautiful city. The mountains. Oh my God, it's beautiful.
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:28:04] Speaker B: Tell me you played, I think just six games freshman year.
[00:28:08] Speaker A: Yeah, my first year before I got hurt. Yeah.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: Tell me about the injury that happened because how did it happen? Let's talk about that. What was.
Cause everyone talk. That changed the trajectory of your career, right?
[00:28:18] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, my life totally actually on that day.
We had a game that same day against a Canadian team team out in Vancouver and Jay Tranon was the coach.
[00:28:30] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:28:30] Speaker A: Yeah. What was the team? There's a team out in Victoria.
[00:28:33] Speaker B: Sfu.
[00:28:33] Speaker A: Sfu. Simon Fraser. That's it. That's it. Simon Fraser. So coaches scheduled an exhibition game and they were going to be our last game before we start league play. Right. And so we had the student union, like the players. Right. And we were just eight and then at the time we were live on the campus, like in the dorms.
So it's a little bit of walking from the union to the, to the dorms, but from the union to the dorm, you walk like through a little hallway and there's stuff that, you know, people advertising, selling. There's a store where they're selling hats and socks and stuff.
And there's a store where they're selling like computers, you know, typewriters, different stuff like that.
So a buddy of mine is my point guard. He was kind of my best friend at the time. And he and I, we like to horse play a lot. You know, these short kids.
[00:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:29] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. But this guy, like, he's short. Oh, yeah. He's like. Van is like 6:1, but he's stocky. Right.
[00:29:35] Speaker B: How tall are you.
[00:29:35] Speaker A: This boy. I'm 6, 5, 2, 15.
So he's always, you know, we're always tussling, right? So me and him is the. So he comes and he attacks me, right? So, boom, boom. So I turn him on, and I, you know, and I. I body him up, right? So he. And I started tussling, hustling. So he. He turned me.
So when he turned me, I came over on my right shoulder.
No, I think. No, I came over on my left shoulder, and then I brought up my left leg, and then there was a showcase. It's like a computer with it. And the window itself, it's tempered glass. So tempered glass is that you need to have a sledgehammer to break that bad boy. Okay. So my leg comes up and. Honest to God, man. And it hit the thing and shattered it to men's. Yo.
[00:30:26] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:30:27] Speaker A: In the morning time when I was at the hospital, and when I wake up, the doctor said to me, what's inside your leg?
I said, man, I have no idea, but honest to God, I don't know how the hell my leg shattered a tempered glass window. So that's what happened. And I could show you. I could show you the incision.
[00:30:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, wow.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: Showing to me.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: So that's crazy. Yeah, man. So I cut 80% of my superficial perineal nerve. Wow.
And it took me about, you know, eight to 10 months to kind of rehab that and, you know, get some strength back into it.
[00:30:59] Speaker B: Was the pain, like, right away?
[00:31:00] Speaker A: Were you.
[00:31:01] Speaker B: Were you, like.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: You know what? At first, there was no pain.
[00:31:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:05] Speaker A: It was just. And then. But the minute I go to take a step, to walk, I just.
I just fell, bro.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And then just call the ambulance one time and. Yeah.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: What was. The doctors, they. They see it. They obviously told you, like, this is insane.
[00:31:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:19] Speaker B: What were they telling you about, like.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: In injury in the morning?
Basically, they were just trying to save my leg.
That. That was the initial thought they will do because the nerve was so badly damaged. Right.
And they did. I was in operation for, like, six hours, you know, and I'm in bed. And then who called? Bob. Bob calls it a four, right? In the morning. Soon. As soon as I wake up, it's Bob on the phone.
So, like, this guy, he's been there every step of the way, man.
[00:31:48] Speaker B: What was going through your mind when that injury happens? And, like, I'm guessing you're probably thinking like this because you had, what, you had NBA buzz during that time, right?
[00:31:56] Speaker A: Oh, for sure.
[00:31:57] Speaker B: What was that like? Like, people were Calling you the once in a generation player.
[00:32:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: Crying for like a great career potential, like long NBA career.
[00:32:06] Speaker A: It was.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: What was that like?
[00:32:07] Speaker A: It was, it was a horrible feeling with. Disappointed. It was hard, you know. It was. Yeah. It wasn't a nice feeling at all, man, to just.
And I just, you know, it was just a lot of mixed feelings, a lot of mixed emotions, you know, saying, why me? Why is this happening to me? Like, you know, freaky. How is this. Yeah. How is this possible?
You know, this window was tempered. How was my leg? You know, like, like I had strong legs, but come on, my leg ain't no sledgehammer. Right. So it's just a lot of stuff that didn't make sense to me. Right. Yeah.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: What did rehab look like? Walk me through that.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: Oh, man, it was, it was every day, man. It was every day. I rehabbed like non stop, you know, didn't stop. It was, it was, it was rigorous and it was tough, you know, but I, I went through it.
[00:32:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And when did you end up coming back?
[00:32:54] Speaker A: I came back next. The next year.
[00:32:57] Speaker B: Next year.
[00:32:58] Speaker A: The next year I came.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: Did you feel the same? Like, what was different just about your game?
[00:33:01] Speaker A: Oh, my athleticism wasn't quite the same. You know what I mean? Like, I, I lost a bit of my elevation and, you know, and my lateral quickness wasn't the same, you know, because usually I was a pretty good defender as well. Right. So at the time I lost some quickness laterally and I lost a bit of my takeoff. Right?
[00:33:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Four years wrapped up in Utah. What was that like? Wrapped it up over there. End up going professionally after that. How did. Tell me how that even that option happens. And then when you're weighing it, I want to go play here, I want to go play there.
[00:33:34] Speaker A: Well, when you're there, right, you know, your last year of school and all of a sudden, you know, all these couple agents, guys calling you different agents, you know, sending you email or contacting you, telling that they could get you jobs here and there. And this is, this is their fee, right? So there was a guy named Raymond, this and Spanish guy, he was from Spain. He's like, yeah, you know, I've got some contacts over, you know, in Hong Kong, I've got contacts in South America, you know, but. But my fee is 30%.
[00:34:04] Speaker B: Damn.
[00:34:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what he said. Like a black, A black market guy, right. It's like a hustler guy, right?
So I was like, nah, man. No, I'm. I'm good. Right. And then I just, I got a call from this Israeli guy and then he just started getting me all kinds of contracts from different places. And he was like, you know, like 5, 6%, right?
[00:34:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:24] Speaker A: So he was a little bit better.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I think the standard is kind of like five.
You played what in Colombia?
[00:34:29] Speaker A: In Colombia and Hong Kong.
[00:34:30] Speaker B: Hong Kong. What was the best spot between those two?
[00:34:33] Speaker A: Actually, I played, I played two years in Venezuela. The best basketball, I think, was in Venezuela.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: Why Venezuela?
[00:34:39] Speaker A: It was so competitive.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:41] Speaker A: Oh, it was so competitive. And there was lots of. There's lots of Americans that was playing over there that was naturalized that end up living over there, marrying the Venezuelan girls. So they play as a local. So it was competitive basketball.
[00:34:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Played six years.
[00:34:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:56] Speaker B: What was that like? And, and what made you decide to. Okay, I'm gonna retire now?
[00:35:01] Speaker A: Well, you know, because of my knee. Right. I couldn't, you know, the knee just, you know, just kept hurting. I just couldn't.
Like. I remember when I was in Hong Kong, the court there was concrete, so. And as an import, they expect you to play a lot, you know, and it was 12 minute quarters, so they expect you to play at least, you know, the bulk of the bulk of the minute. Right. So I used to play like 40 to 45 minute a game. Right. And there used to be times where I couldn't even walk up the stairs, you know, so it just became too painful after a while. Yeah.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: So you, you retire or. But you're still playing, I'm guessing.
[00:35:35] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I didn't start playing pickup.
[00:35:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:37] Speaker A: But I just stopped playing on that level because professionally, man, they, they expect you to practice a lot. They expect you to play the bulk of the game and they expect you to produce. Yeah. You know what I mean? So at my, my body was starting to break down a little bit. Right.
[00:35:52] Speaker B: What was next for you after that?
[00:35:53] Speaker A: I basically, I did some teaching with Bob. Bob. Bob got me into the school where I did some emergency teaching.
Supply teacher. I did it for like three years.
And then I, I opened up my basketball club called the Wolverines.
[00:36:07] Speaker B: Yeah, you're just telling me too, you had some NBA guys now that ended up that played for that team.
[00:36:13] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I had a couple of guys who came to my program, you know, whether it's through summer camp or through my rep teams and stuff.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, Some of the names. Walk me through those guys.
[00:36:22] Speaker A: Like A.J. lawson was one. You know, he's been coming since he was a youngster.
Nikhil Alexander Walker, when he was young, he came through the program Program.
And. And we coach against a lot of guys. You know, we coach against guys like Andrew Nemhardt, not Dylan Brooks, but the kid for the Denver Nuggets, Jamal Murray. Yeah, we coach against him. Yeah. When he played for Bounds.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Did you see the potential when you're seeing aj when you're seeing Nikhil, you're like, these guys are. And they're all doing their thing now.
[00:36:54] Speaker A: Did you see that with. With Nikhil? I definitely seen it. And with. With aj, he was always athletic, so with AJ, for me, it was whether he was going to go or not. And then I knew once he get past six. Five, six, six. Yeah, because he's. He's a. He's a hell of an athlete.
And then he's. And he's a hard worker. Right. So I think for sure, going back.
[00:37:15] Speaker B: A bit, I know you played for Canada basketball.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: How many years was that in total?
[00:37:19] Speaker A: I think I played about seven years.
[00:37:20] Speaker B: What was that like during that time?
The 90s.
[00:37:25] Speaker A: Right.
[00:37:25] Speaker B: And playing during that time, I think Steve Nas was just also popping up in the scene, too. What was the roster?
[00:37:30] Speaker A: Were you.
[00:37:31] Speaker B: Were you guys that competitive? Like, what was. What was it like?
[00:37:33] Speaker A: We were competitive, but not as competitive as these guys. And for me, it was okay. My first couple years was really good, but then afterwards, after I got hurt, for me, it wasn't the same because I wasn't the same player.
So it was just hard for me to really come compete and to be able to show my skill set when your leg and your body is not really allowing you to. Right.
So for me, that part of it was very frustrating.
[00:38:00] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a lot of sentiment, too, during that time. Like, there's a lot of gatekeeping with the national team during that time. You know, like racism. There's the book out. Oren Weissfeld, my guy, came on the show, we talked about it, and there's a lot of sentiment from players during that time that Toronto players would have beat guys on the national team.
Is that something you believed in, seeing the talent in Toronto, that they could have gone up against guys on the national team?
[00:38:26] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, because I've been on some teams, you know, like, I was on the World Unit University team and that team was okay, but we had guys in Toronto that was much better than some of my teammates, for sure. There's no question about that.
[00:38:38] Speaker B: Why do you think that was during that time? And, like, it's also still, like, I won't say still, but there was resentment too, where, like, guys would be like, I'm not getting a call up and I'm this good.
[00:38:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And some of them guys wouldn't even want to go play because they felt that they were disrespected in the past. So all of a sudden, no, I'm not going to go. Right. I mean, at the time. Right. Those coaches then, they're not from Toronto, they're from out west, they're from out East. So, number one, they're not really familiar with the local players in Toronto. Right. And. And to be honest, you know, for them, they're not. They're not used to coaching inner city kids.
So, you know, so it's, you know, it's a disconnect there. Right. They're more comfortable coaching kids, you know, in, you know, in the suburbs and kids who they could relate to. Right.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Steve Nash was coming up during that time.
[00:39:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: What was it like watching him sort of kind of blossom into the scene?
Did you play with him on the national team?
[00:39:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, a few times. I mean, you could just see his talent. Right. You could just see his skill set. Like, everything about him was just so sharp and tight and solid and his fundamentals. And he had an extremely good work ethic, you know what I mean? So I knew Steve was a pro.
I could just tell from day one. And there was another guy named Wayne Yearwood who I thought was a pro for sure. He's like six, eight, six, nine, Just do everything. Had it all handle, shoot. Just. You know what I mean? So those two guys that played with those two guys really stood out to me. That I thought was definite pros.
[00:40:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
For you, during that time, I was asking who's the toughest guys you've competed against? Whether it's like guys that ended up playing in the league that you were like. People don't realize that, like, you battle against some of the greats.
[00:40:23] Speaker A: Oh, oh, I'd say Steve Smith. Yeah. From Michigan State. I play against him a lot. I played against him in the Detroit League in St. Sicilia in the summertime. Yeah. So he's one of my. Yeah, I used to compete against him a lot. Yeah? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
[00:40:38] Speaker B: I hear so many stories about you dropping X amount of points. What was the most?
Like, who did you give the most buckets to? What was that?
[00:40:46] Speaker A: Could you. We played this team from New York called Riverside Church, and it was in Montreal, and they had a really good team. You know, they had a point guard named Kenny Anderson. He played in the NBA for like, I think like 14 years. They had Conrad McCray, God, rest his soul. He passed away a few years ago. Brian Reese. So that they had. On their squad, they had at least seven all All American. Right.
And it was a SUNY tournament in Montreal, and man, I was hyped for that tournament. Yeah. So. Yeah, so that game, I think I had like 65 or 61 against those guys. Yeah.
[00:41:20] Speaker B: Just straight.
[00:41:20] Speaker A: That was it.
[00:41:21] Speaker B: You're giving them everything.
[00:41:22] Speaker A: Was it everything, man? Threes, dunks, everything. I was. It was on display, you know.
[00:41:27] Speaker B: What was the reaction afterwards?
[00:41:28] Speaker A: Oh, man, it was. The gym went crazy. And even the other. The other coach, that it was a Christian man, he recruited me. He wanted me to come and play with them in a couple of tournaments and consider. Or is it a mutual respect thing? I mean, he was willing to pay for all of that stuff, but at the time, man, I was so busy with basketball in Canada. Right.
[00:41:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:47] Speaker A: That, you know, it just didn't really interest me at the time. Yeah.
[00:41:50] Speaker B: Because I don't think a lot of people realize, I think that one of those. That game, probably a lot of people open their eyes to Toronto guys.
[00:41:56] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Because he told a lot of coaches about me and about Bob. Right. And then I know he got a St. John's culture called a few times because he was a New York guy. Right.
[00:42:08] Speaker B: When I think about today's game, there's a lot of guys from the city that end up playing college, but there's not many, like, guys from like.
Like where you're from, you know, like Toronto, inner city. Delano Banton is probably one of the one. One of the main guys I'm thinking about, but, like, guys that are from, like, you know, I'm talking about inner city Toronto that make it to the league. Is there a reason you think we're seeing more like the.
The outer regions where it's more, you know, like. Because that's what. When I talk about the culture in basketball in Toronto, it's like it's not the same. And I think that might have to do with that kind of stuff. Why do you think there's like another you that comes out of, like, Lawrence Heights, you know?
[00:42:47] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, there was a Wayne Smith. Because after me, there was Wayne Smith and there was denim, brown.
[00:42:52] Speaker B: Brown.
[00:42:52] Speaker A: So Michael Bongo. Yeah, Michael Bongo. Yeah. So they just keep it producing talent. Right.
[00:42:57] Speaker B: But there hasn't been much.
[00:42:58] Speaker A: That's why I'm like, yeah, well, what happens that most of those guys, they go to. They go to the U.S. right. Yeah. Because, you know, look at, like, I know Rowan's son, he went to the U.S. right? Yep, yep. Nikhil, I think, went to the U.S. after a while, right?
[00:43:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:12] Speaker A: And they finished their last year of high school in the U.S. right? So that way they get more exposure, better opportunity. Right.
So we never done that. You know, for me, I just took to high school in Canada. Right. And I got all my scholarship in Canada. And then that's where we left and go. Right.
[00:43:27] Speaker B: I'm guessing, like, I'm guessing, obviously, you're tapped into the basketball scene. Is that something you think is needed, guys going to the States? Because at the time, like, when Mike came on this podcast, we talked about it, he seen, like, Junior Cadugan go through it, and it was like it was needed, you know, during that time, those guys go in. But now it's like this talent level here. I'm guessing you've seen it too. You think it's needed.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think we need to develop our programs here more because Toronto is on the map. I mean, we've got the Raptors, we've got the women's team now everybody knows about, and they love the city. And we have so many kids in the NBA that's from Toronto. So I think that we need to do a better job developing our program locally where it's. People will just come directly here and take kids and bring them over, Right? Yeah.
[00:44:14] Speaker B: Because when I talk to most people, it's like they complain about having to come to Pearson Airport, you know, going to the border.
[00:44:19] Speaker A: Like, the headaches, the customs. Yeah. The custom stuff. Yeah.
[00:44:25] Speaker B: So that's kind of like the issue when it's like, you go to States, everyone's there, that kind of stuff.
How do you see, like, the Canadian basketball landscape now compared to when you're playing? Is it night and day?
[00:44:36] Speaker A: Oh, night and day, man. Yeah. Right now there's way more funding. I mean, back then, we didn't get any funding. Hardly any funding. Right. We probably went in a couple trips for the summer.
Our training wasn't as long because there was no funding. Now there's funding coming from all over the place, so. And these guys are winning, right? I guess when you're winning, it bring in more sponsorship. Right.
So it's like night and day. Like, now it's much better. There's much more support now.
There's much better players now, and they're winning more. I think these guys, they have a legit chance of winning a medal in. In 2028.
[00:45:14] Speaker B: Yeah. No excuses. 2028.
[00:45:16] Speaker A: Yeah. I tell.
[00:45:17] Speaker B: I tell, like, we're gonna cover that in depth, too. It's gonna be. I think this is the pivotal time. You got shade, who's arguably 12 best player in the league.
[00:45:24] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: And now everyone at Dylan Brooks is doing this thing. You got Nikhil doing his thing. You surround the right pieces. They just got to figure out the big man situation, which I've harped on a lot. They don't have. There's not bigs, you know, like, that are like.
[00:45:36] Speaker A: They got Zach Eddie. Right? Zach. Yes.
You could build around him, you know?
[00:45:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:41] Speaker A: And don't listen. That kid Sharp is pretty nice.
[00:45:44] Speaker B: Shane Sharp?
[00:45:44] Speaker A: Yeah, he's. Man, he's a hell of a player.
[00:45:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:47] Speaker A: He needs to be on. He needs to be on. Be on the team.
[00:45:49] Speaker B: Yeah. I did a short list of guys that I want to see. I think Shane Sharp was on my list.
[00:45:52] Speaker A: Oh, Shane Sharp. Oh, man, he's a hell of a player. Him and Nemhard n hard.
[00:45:56] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:45:56] Speaker A: You know, Dylan Matherin mah math should be in the team.
[00:46:01] Speaker B: You know, if you're playing today, what do you feel like your game will look like?
How. What would you thrive in? What would you adapt right now?
[00:46:10] Speaker A: I think I'd probably be a point guard right now in today's game. Yeah. Because I like to pass and I could shoot in my hand, you know, I mean, athleticism.
So, yeah, that's. I'd be a point, I think, for you.
[00:46:22] Speaker B: What keeps you connected to the game? I know your grandson's playing. Is he the next best thing? Is this someone I need to watch out for?
[00:46:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't want to. I don't want to put too much pressure on him. Right. See, for him, it's all about his work ethic. Right. Like, he's 16. He's 6. 6. But. But he's a pretty boy. Right?
So you know what I'm saying?
[00:46:39] Speaker B: That's the next generation.
[00:46:40] Speaker A: Oh, man. So he just drives me crazy, man. When. When I was his age, I tell him I said my girlfriend was basketball, but this guy. Me and him will make plans to go hoop. All of a sudden, I'm waiting for this guy.
Oh. Dropping off his girlfriend here. You know what I mean? So he's. Yeah, he loves to play, but he's. He's. He's. He's got options now.
[00:47:02] Speaker B: Yeah, he sounds like me in high school. You know, he's a ladies man. You know?
What's your message when you're talking to young guys, when guys hear about your legacy, what you've done?
What. What's one message you leave to players.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: That, you know, if you're gonna get into the game, if you're gonna give it a hundred percent, you know, don't, don't half ass it, right, because you have to give yourself a legitimate shot, you know, and you got to put that effort in, you know, no shortcuts. And it's, it's all about the hard work, right? I used to take a thousand shots a day, you know, I used to say, I'm not leaving until I make 500 threes, right? So you have to set goals and try to attain it, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:47:53] Speaker B: What are you most proud about when you think about your basketball journey?
[00:47:57] Speaker A: You know, man, there's so many things.
Well, you know, for one, I was happy that I was able to see a lot of countries, you know, as far as visiting and, you know, meeting. I've got friends in so many different countries, you know what I mean?
I've got a good group of network people I can network with, you know, I could get up and go to different countries and, and do different things, you know, So I just, I love what basketball has provided me with, you know, people who have met through basketball, my connection, the way, the way my life is now is because of basketball, you know, so it has done a lot for, for me. It has also saved me, you know.
[00:48:39] Speaker B: How do you feel when people like me say you're a pioneer, that, you know, there wouldn't be the next wave of talent without Phil Dixon?
[00:48:49] Speaker A: You know, I, I'm very humbled by that. You know, I've heard it from a few different people, and I'm humbled by that.
And, you know, and I, I don't just take it casually, you know, I take it, you know, and I, I personalize that, you know what I mean? And I'm just going to run with it, right? And let's try to make life easier for other people when it comes to basketball. Whatever I could do to help him become a better player, I'm all about it.
Because I still do training now. I still train kids on the side, right? Because I could never stop, right? That's something I enjoy doing. I still train my grandson, you know.
[00:49:22] Speaker B: What, what's you talk about training? What do you think's missing when you're, when you're training guys? Canadians, Is there something they lack? Because they talk about Canadians being late bloomers. I hear about the shot is always like, canadians can't shoot the ball that well right away. What are your thoughts?
[00:49:36] Speaker A: What I find with a lot of these Kids is the work ethic.
It's like they don't understand how hard they have to work to really get it. You know what I mean? They think that they could get it if they just go casual, they just go mediocre, just go average.
But they got to go beyond, you know what I mean? They got to go to the point where they're uncomfortable.
Right? And some of them are not built that way, you know, so they got to come into their comfort zone and they're not wired in that way.
A lot of kids in the US because of their environment, they have no choice. Right? That's just, that's, that's the only way, right?
[00:50:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I had Kev on, who's the commissioner of the npa, he talked about this lack of competitiveness in Ontario. Do you see that? Is that, Is that something.
[00:50:19] Speaker A: I see a lot of that too, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I think those are, those are all character flows, right? These individual. Right. They just, you know that they lack that passion, right. You know, you know, you have to have a type of hunger to, to be good, to really excel, to really put that time in.
[00:50:40] Speaker B: And nobody's like watching games I feel like anymore, right? Where it's like, I think back then it's like now it's.
[00:50:46] Speaker A: Everything is social media.
[00:50:48] Speaker B: You got no social media.
[00:50:49] Speaker A: I mean, one of my daughters, man, they put me on some tick tock stuff.
So other than that, you know, to be. Yeah, man.
[00:50:59] Speaker B: Yeah. It's funny too because like now I think about social media during, during this time age. It's insane. We talked about it too.
Now you have five kids. What's that like, seeing them grow?
What's that like for you?
[00:51:13] Speaker A: Just as Pops, man, life just, just keeps evolving, man. You know what I mean? It's. It's a, it's a blessing, right? You know, I got three grandkids. You know what I mean? The grandkids for me is a trip, right? You know, and see my grandson, he's taller than me, you know, it's just.
[00:51:30] Speaker B: Who wins, who wins the ones.
[00:51:32] Speaker A: You know what? The last time we played, I beat him, but I haven't played him in like a year and I won't be playing him for a while. And I think the game was like up to three.
Okay, so that was it. Yeah. So I just, I enjoy watching him whooped his dad's butt.
So he beats Jordan all the time. So I enjoy watching that.
[00:51:52] Speaker B: Oh, that's crazy.
Last question. I just want to end off with you. How do you want to be remembered. Like, when I think about you as a. As a player for the next generation, for people in the basketball space, what does Phil Dixon want to be remembered as when we're thinking about as a basketball player, as a pioneer, as just like, a legend in this space?
[00:52:15] Speaker A: Like, basketball was my life. Like, it literally saved my life. You know what I mean? Like, you know, at five years old, you know, I lost the only mom I knew, you know, and then went to live with my grandma, which was blind in two eyes.
And then all of a sudden, she says, you know, I'm gonna get you a new mom. You know, I'm gonna get you a new mom. And then at the age of 11, all of a sudden, I have this new mom now and just very, very, very, very abusive, you know what I mean? Like, my life was hell, so basketball just was like an escape, you know what I mean? Like, that's all I would focus on, was basketball. So my life is basketball, bro. Like, that's it. This is it. It just. It was an outlet. It just. It was everything, you know? It just. It's. It kept me away from so many things, you know?
[00:53:04] Speaker B: Have you ever considered writing a book? I feel like you'd.
[00:53:07] Speaker A: People would read it. Oh, yeah, for sure.
[00:53:08] Speaker B: I'll read it. I'd pick it up. Bestseller.
[00:53:10] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I'm thinking about it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There's a few different people who approach me about it. Oh, yeah, Talk.
[00:53:15] Speaker B: We'll talk more in depth probably after this, man, because I think people, like, they need to know the history, and they need to know just like you talk about it. Just basketball is your life. I feel we don't see that much, right?
[00:53:25] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:53:26] Speaker B: Phil Dixon, one of the greatest Canadian basketball players to ever touch a basketball.
I need to come watch your grandson hoop. We going to set that up.
[00:53:34] Speaker A: Julius, baby.
[00:53:35] Speaker B: Julius, appreciate you for taking the time joining us in studio.
[00:53:39] Speaker A: It's my pleasure, brother. My pleasure.
[00:53:41] Speaker B: And yeah, man, Phil Dixon, man. So hard to reach, so hard to get in contact with the amount of people I have to go through just to get in touch with Phil Dixon.
[00:53:47] Speaker A: But I'm here. He's here live.
[00:53:50] Speaker B: Live in person, my guy.
[00:53:52] Speaker A: Yes, sir.
[00:53:52] Speaker B: Appreciate you, brother.
[00:53:53] Speaker A: You're welcome, brother. Pleasure. Pleasure.
[00:53:54] Speaker B: Always.
