Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Welcome to the Canadian basketball show, your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. I'm your host, Lee Ban Osmond. Got a lot of good feedback on the mailback episode we did, and I appreciate y' all for the questions, the fun conversation. I think I might do one every month now. Just sit down, talk to y'. All. We'll see. Hit me up on IG at the Canadian basketball show. Get ahead, send us some questions, and we'll get to it.
But to end off the year, I want to talk more about the Canadian basketball prep school scene. What is going right, what is going wrong?
What is the state of prep school basketball in Canada right now? And I wanted to have someone that has been consumed in all of it, heavily involved. He helped build for Erie international Academy to one of the top programs in Canada and North America and is now the commissioner of the national preparatory association.
My guy, Kev. How you doing, brother?
[00:01:05] Speaker A: Good, man. How you doing? I appreciate you having me on today, my guy.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: I'm good, man. Appreciate you coming downtown. Like I just said, commission of the npa. How did that role come about and what made you interested? Because you're just at Fort Erie building the program up, you know, for a few years over there, grind session.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: Made it to the.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: To the finals. Final four, I believe, or the finals.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Was the finals.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Yeah, finals. Like first men's team to do it. But now you go out to mpa. Tell me about that. That role and how did that come about?
[00:01:32] Speaker A: Yeah, so that role, it's very interesting how it came about. So, you know, obviously us being one of the members in the MPA and, you know, since the league started post Covid, they haven't had a commissioner. The last commissioner was Jason Tom, who's now the director of operations for the cubl.
So I've always had conversations with Tarek being a stakeholder in the league, saying, like, man, we need this role. And I've recommended for this role as well.
So when the time came and I left Fort Erie, T& I kind of got on the phone, we chopped it up, and the idea came up of me kind of taking the position over.
And it was an opportunity that was interesting because it's a completely different chair to be sitting in compared to where I was before, you know, being a stakeholder to now dealing with all the stakeholders.
So it was honestly just a natural conversation that came up with T because of the relationship that we had.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: What does your role look like since the start of the season? Prep season. What does that look like in terms of just running. Running things over at npa.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So a lot of it for me, coming into this role right now has been opening up my network to all the stakeholders, so all the different teams. You know, obviously being at Fort Erie, we have a wealth of, like, phone numbers from college coaches from all levels.
So being able to provide that to the different schools, call these different NCAA schools about our guys that are in the league that they might have no idea about, and honestly, just giving these programs more of an exposure, but also giving them some tools to become more, you know, stable programs within the country so that there's a continuous infrastructure to continue helping the Next Wave kids.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: I see what you guys did at Fort Erie, man, the talent at the Battle of Fort tournament. I don't think I've seen that many NCAA coaches in Canada in a minute. Obviously, like, right next to the Buffalo border, inviting them out there, all of them getting to watch you guys play your talent.
But for people that who know your name, but they don't know your origin story in terms of the prep school scene, how did you first get involved and what originally, like, pulled you to the prep scene?
[00:03:38] Speaker A: Yeah, so it's actually a pretty interesting story with a lot of luck.
So I got to know Dwayne Washington back in 2020, just during that Covid time.
So I was a part of uplay for a little bit.
You know, that first summer after you play, you know, he kind of took on Royal Crown, so I jumped on board at Royal Crown with him for about a year.
Then we left Royal Crown, Charles and I.
Charles found Fort Erie, and then he kind of gave me a ring and was ring was like, yo, do you want to come with? And I was like, sure.
So I've been at Fort Erie now for. I did four years there.
So long story short, that's kind of how that story came about. A lot of luck. A lot of meeting the right people at the right time.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: How has your, like, perspective changed, like, since joining in, maybe the prep school scene, seeing how it's kind of, like, evolved over the years and now, like, taking on this important role?
[00:04:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's. It's changed a lot. I think, you know, the biggest misconception that people have is winning is what's most important for a prep program.
I think, like, the thing that we kept rooted at Fort Erie was that development was always number one. That's how we were able to always recruit the top kids. We were able to get guys who are never on radars to certain Levels just because of the fact that we push development more than anything. And there's a lot of programs that push winning over everything.
And then you can see a lot of those programs also don't push kids out at the same level. You know, they might be stacking the championships and winning these, you know, circuits here and there, wherever. But at the end of the day, the foundation of a program should be how much are we changing the lives of the kids that we have with us? Right.
So we were able to kind of keep that foundation with us. And I think that's kind of what changed for me going into it. I thought it was always about winning and, you know, getting your name out of there. But the real thing is develop guys. You get them to the right level, your name gets out there for sure.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: Talking about guys like Ishan Sharma just watched. I'm watching him at St. Louis. We had him on the podcast, shout out to. You had him on a podcast. He's killing at St. Louis. Doing his thing now.
Yeah, it's cool to see what you guys have done.
But what's been like.
Like when we're talking about the prep school scene now, like on this episode, I kind of want to talk about, like, what's the state? What's going right? What's going wrong? How would you describe, like, the state of prep school basketball right now? Are we in a good place? Because I don't know, man.
[00:06:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think we're in a good spot in terms of the accessibility that kids have to play at that level that they want to play at now. What might be a driving factor for people to say, like, it's going wrong is like, you know, the fact that we're overselling certain things. Right. The reality needs to hit in terms of there's only certain level of scholarships out there if you want to go play down south.
And I think that's what's being misconstrued by a lot of people is that they think it's endless because they see it on social media and just assume that it's an endless, like the NCAA, the average age is 21 years old. Like, we got to be realistic here. Like, a lot of our kids aren't going to get that opportunity coming out of high school. So what's going to be that next stage? And I think that's what's important, that a lot of schools just need to preach about getting an opportunity to play post secondary basketball. That doesn't matter what level it is. But I think we're in a Good state. Just because, yeah, the amount of prep schools we have, it seems like a lot. And, yeah, there are people that are doing it in a different way, but there are a lot of people that are doing it in the right way, too.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: What are your thoughts on that? So many programs. I can't count. I've lost count.
I'll see some, like, makeship programs, mom and pop shop type programs. Like, are you. Like, what are your thoughts on, like, are there too many prep school programs in Canada?
[00:07:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, honestly, like, you have to have a. A good sense as, like, a student athlete or a parent that's driving your kid into a program. Right? Like, where did this program start? How did it start? Who's running it? Like, these are questions that you should be asking rather than, I just want my kid out of prep school. Like, that. That doesn't do anything for anyone, you know, like, there's a lot of prep schools that pop up because there's unhappy parents, you know, my kids sitting on the bench. So you know what? I'm gonna start one, too.
Like, this is the state that we're in. And those are the things I mean is, like, it's not good for basketball because at the end of the day, those aren't driving factors to help these kids past what we're trying to do, right?
But there are a lot of schools that, like I said, do it right, that have a solid foundation, have the right people in the right places that are carrying it on. Right? So those are the teams that we have a part of, the mpa, that show us that there's a. A solid foundation, a solid infrastructure to help these kids past, you know, past the four lines, basically.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Yeah. NPA started what, like, six, seven years ago? I consider it, like, I think you guys might be the Premier League. You're probably sitting out as a commissioner, you know, like, what makes it stand out in your eyes? The npa.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, honestly, man, like, for me, the biggest thing is, and, you know, you can. You can fact check this, is that when we were at Fort Area, we took a stance to, you know, leave one league and join just the npa. And that was because of the value that we've seen in the npa, which is, in my opinion, three things. One, the marketing component of it, how they market the athletes.
The second piece is the scouting component of it, which. That's who they are traditionally. They are a scouting platform. And the third is the league, which allows these players a platform to be on. So I think from that standpoint, we Hit a lot of programs with three different factors on it. So us leaving for like Fort Erie, leaving initially and joining the MPA was because that was something that we believed in. Right. It wasn't just a league. It wasn't just a place for us to play home games and away games. And that's it. Like, it gives our kids, it gives our program more visibility, and that helps both parties, including the country.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: How much did it help your guys, your players? Just in terms of like, whether it's recruitment, talent, coaches coming out to games. You talking about the marketing, you guys killing on ig, I'll give you that too. It's like the IG marketing, man. I'm like the, the graphics, the top five scores, top five assists, you know, like, it's. I've never seen that type of. I don't know. But I'm also like questioning like, how many leagues are there really in. In Canada, right. Where it's like. But you guys are like unprecedented what you guys are doing.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: Yeah, there's quite a few leagues, don't get me wrong. That's where, you know, you know, the mom and pop. Yeah. The prep schools are in.
But like I said, the, the standard that we have through the team, that's at mpa.
That's what gives it the difference. Right. Like when I was at Fort Erie, the value I seen was the ability to pick up the phone and call Joe and be like, yo, I need so and so's number. Can you get it from me? Because I know they're, they're looking for a big. You know, when we were in NPA finals two years ago, Tarek's personal relationship with Kansas State is what brought Jerome Tang into the gym. Like, we're talking about a, a Big 12 head coach walking in to a school in St. Catharines like Ridley College.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: Never thought I'd see that.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: Never thought you'd ever see that. Right. So the, the reach that they have because of how long they've existed is unprecedented in this country. And that's where people need to understand the value that the so called league brings to the table is that it's more than just a league.
[00:10:55] Speaker B: Yeah, you talk about it's been long, but it hasn't really been long too. Right. Six, seven years. Being able to have those connections is kind of crazy.
But do you feel like prep school basketball, like in Canada is getting respect in terms of just like, maybe not just in Canada, but just down south, like when you guys are playing against competition, it's like, okay, we can't sleep on this Canadian team that's coming out. We'll talk about what you guys did at Fourier in a bit. But, like, do you feel like there's more respect, legitimacy when it comes to prep school in Canada?
[00:11:22] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I mean, like, you know, my time at Fort Erie, like, being in the grind session, for instance, like, you know, when we'd walk into gyms, when World Crown would walk into gyms, like, there's a level of respect that the American teams have because they know, like, these kids are coached. You know what I mean? Like, these aren't just athletes that are walking in and we're just gonna blow them out. Like, these kids are coached. They're gonna play fundamental basketball with us. They're gonna run plays. They're gonna run and gun. They're gonna show us everything across blend of European and American basketball together. And I think that's what. That's the level of respect we get now. You know, you do walk into odd venues where people don't know who you are, and that's normal. But I think, like, as far as America, I think Canadian schools, for the most part, have established themselves as to, like, there's not going to be a walk in the park. Like, there's going to be a competition. Yeah.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: For yourself, obviously. Join Charles at Fort Erie. Walk me through the process in terms of, like, building a program that becomes, like, respectable across North America.
Traveling, getting these. Getting into the grind session. These main competitions where you're going up against guys that are in the league right now. You know, guys are right now considered. Might be two, three, going number one in the next this draft. Class A Darren Pearson. Like, those guys, right. Like, competing. And y' all beat AJ Last year. Talk about that in a bit.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Twice.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Not once. Twice.
You have to fact check me on that 100%.
But walk me through the idea comes to build for Erie, right? Charles hits you up.
What does the ground work look like to even get a start? And, like, not like you talk about there's so many mom and pop shops, but to build it to a program where it's like, you know, you're getting Len Miller to come. You're getting tons of NCAA guys that are going there, you know, like, guys that have potential. Like, you're recruiting. Everyone's like, I want to go play at either. I think the schools that people want to play at. Let's be real. It's either for Erie, R Crown, or it's.
I don't know what. Crest was also a school that's coming up that's kind of like. That's been in the mix.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: Prep is not getting up there, too.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: Edge Prep, Alberta, shout out to them. They have a lot of talent.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: RNS is pushing all D1 guys now.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Yeah. So, like, there's a lot of. But you guys were kind of like the one school. I feel like there's a lot of talent coming out of. Tell me about that. Just, like, what was the process in getting it started?
[00:13:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, Charles kind of C definitely hit the hardest part, which is finding the school that had, you know, residents on site.
Now, the school itself put in a lot of money, too, to do all the investments for us. You know, renovating the gym, travel costs, our salaries, all that kind of stuff. Outside of that, man, like, when it comes to the kids coming to us, I think that's all personal relationships. Like, what a lot of people don't understand is, like, our first year, like, 13 out of the 14 kids we had were personal relationships. You know what I mean? So Charles coached, like, Elijah, Eman, Leonard. So there's an existing relationship. Family tree. It's a family tree. You know, we had Isaac, Jack, who we coached, you know, during the summer with Uplay. So we have good relationships with Uplay, and we have great relationships with Brookwood. So they feel comfortable in terms of sending kids to us because they know, okay, Charles is a great guy. He's going to coach, he's going to develop these guys. Cav's a great guy. He's going to make sure he takes care of them off the court and everything. So putting that together, they know this is a place where I can trust for my kids to go. They're going to blossom, and I get them back in the summer. We're going to. It's going to be like a full circle to help them get recruited. Right.
And that's where I think it all. It all took a change for us is that first year is like, every single kid came to us because it was us, right? Like, if you looked at the state of the gym when these guys got dropped off, like, you'd laugh. Like, if you were a parent, you tell your kid, pack your stuff up. Like, we're going home. There's no way you're staying here.
But I think that trust factor that these people had in us is what led us to become a great program. And then from there, it was just building on top of that. Right. Like using those relationships to bring more kids in. Now, you know, you get guys like Braden, Ish, Oliver, Diego, These guys who have been flying under the radar for their middle school career, grade nine, grade 10, they come to us now. They're popping off on the national team. They're going on AAU circus. They're killing us. Other kids are like, yo, like, this is a kid we didn't even hear about two years ago. Like, where is this guy coming from? Right. I think the biggest thing is that we had that core group for about three, four years, right? Look at guys like Jaden Clayton, who was down south.
I've known Jaden since he was, like, grade nine, I think grade ten. Charles known Jaden since he was in grade eight. So for us, it was a matter of, like, picking up the phone. We get on the phone with Junior. This is what we have to offer. We're looking for a point guard. Like, we need this right now. He comes and watches the game. When we were playing United Scholastic down in Durham, and he's like, yeah, you know what? We're going to transfer him and he's going to come. And that's a kid that's bouncing back from one of the top schools in the States, Dream City Christian, and coming back to us, right? So it just honestly depends on the platform, the relationships, and then what we're able to do for the kid. Ultimately.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: What do you think it meant for you guys?
Like you said, not beat AJ DeBono once, twice, Utah Prep in the grind session. What did it mean maybe for Canada?
[00:16:29] Speaker A: I mean, I. I think it's a great thing for Canada. I think the first one, obviously, you know, it was, you know, they played in Canada, so, you know, the Canadian refs helped them out, the crowd was on their side, blah, blah. And it was a tight game, man. Listen, like, our guys played like dogs that year, right?
But then it's completely different to go down now to Utah and playing them basically in their own state and beating them. And I think that's what was the difference maker is like, okay, yeah, we did it on our soil, but we're also doing it on your soil, too. And kudos to AJ Man. Like, this. This kid is unbelievable. Like, he has.
He guards the best guy on the team. He doesn't even care. Like, I remember plays where I sat back and I'm just like, this is, like, unbelievable what this kid is able to do in a span of 32 minutes or 40 minutes.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: Yeah, you talked about it, too. Obviously, going down to the States.
Is there something you feel like maybe Canadians still lag in terms of, like, what the US Is providing in terms of like their basketball scene. Is there something that kind of still misses?
[00:17:31] Speaker A: Honestly, I think it's the competitiveness. I think like the way some of these coaches are coaching these kids, the way some of these programs are handling these kids, like we're not holding them accountable for them to face what they're going to face in the US and that's the mistake we make. And that's like, we're not less talented. Like, there's no way we're less talented. Like I said to you before, like, we have the second most amount of players in the NBA as a nation. So it's not a matter of talent. It's a matter of like competitiveness. Like, these kids assume that it's easy to go D1, it's assume that it's easy to play U sports. Like, these are hard, hard things. Like, if you look at the usport landscape right now and see like how many prep players are in it, man, I, it has to be under like 25 or 30 in Ontario.
Right. And that's, that's what I'm trying to explain to all these people is like, it's hard, it's hard playing at that next level. And it's not talent. It's, it's how hard are you willing to work? How hard are you willing to compete?
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I just had Dave Deverion, TMU coach, he had a lot of thoughts on youth sports.
A lot of thoughts in terms of like, it's lagging. In terms of like, I like the league is not where it should be considering like, I don't know, maybe like six, seven years ago or maybe eight years ago, they had a lot of guys that would go pro and now it's not the same. In terms of the competitiveness, what are your thoughts on that? Maybe seeing it and you mentioned the if prep school players that are playing at a high level in Canada are struggling to get in the league, why isn't the league so competitive?
[00:19:07] Speaker A: Well, I, I, I think a lot of kids are still deciding to go down south and still pursue that dream. And this is where as a stakeholder in this, in this country, in the basketball space and as well as someone that cares for kids, like you should ask some of these kids, I'm pretty brutally honest with them. Like when I know a kid is like a, for sure, you sports guy can be an all Canadian, whatever. Like, why spend two years at juco, right? And then if you're going to bounce back and play Canadian basketball anyways, you're losing two years of education.
The Pipeline has changed now where like U Sports is becoming a breeding ground for Division 1 basketball players. So you can come to U.S. sports. Kill it. If you're a killer, come kill it. And that's what's going to make the league better. And I think we're going to see that trend in the next two to five years where like, it's what Dave is saying, like, it's going to go back to it being competitive where like gyms are going to be back in the day. Like, I don't know. Ryerson Carlton, ubc.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: I go to games now, it's not that packed, which is kind of sad. You know, I think about like the days where I'm watching like the Scrub Brothers Scrubs doing their thing, you know, like, but it's different. Like, and I don't know too. Just like I would go to games and like I'm watching. I was complaining about this on a mailbag episode. I just did, like just watching Canada versus the Bahamas and World cup qualifiers and the Madam Athletics. Not that packed. Like, I don't know what's wrong with our basketball culture where it's like esports used to be packed.
I would assume some of these other Canada games used to be more packed. But also I would think that like, if you go to a Halifax, they're selling out. If you go to like a Alberta, Edmonton, like Calgary, those areas. Right, they'll sell out. But what's like, is there something wrong with like the Toronto basketball culture? You know what?
I have a theory. I might just, I might throw this out to you. You know, I blame, I don't blame you specifically, but you know, like the prep schools that are all going outside the city, that has ruined the basketball culture in Toronto. Outside of the Raptors. The Raptors still, you know, they still get crowds even though I don't think they're that great this year. But like, you know what I'm saying? Like, do you think that could be a factor to. Whereas like now there's so many prep schools outside of Toronto that like the basketball culture in the city isn't the same. What are your thoughts on that?
[00:21:23] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I mean, like, let's be honest, like when you and I are growing up, inner city basketball is a huge thing.
Where is inner city basketball today exist?
[00:21:32] Speaker B: There's like one prep school maybe in the city that's Uchenna.
I can't even figure out where the address is to that. Shout out to Russell though. But like, you know, like, like it's. It's hard to, you know, I think it's in Dupont. Somewhere in Dupont. But, like, you know, I'm saying, like, it. And it's not, you know, like, it's not talked about, which is sad.
[00:21:51] Speaker A: I think it's a level of, like, the community outreach as well. Right. Like, what are programs doing to get it out there? What are programs doing? Like, we live in the era of social media. Like, you know, you gotta engage your community, and if you're not on that platform promoting your games, whatever, like, it's tough. It's tough. Like when. When Fort Erie used to come out to Toronto, man, I would call everyone that I know in the city be like, yo, this is our schedule. We're coming out to Vaughan. We're coming out to here, we're coming there. We're coming to Crestwood or coming to Royal Crown. Gyms would be rammed. But what are programs doing now to continue that message? Like, people are coming to watch me. By coming to watch me. They're coming to watch Ish. They're coming to watch Leonard, they're coming to watch jc they're coming to watch Diego. Like, everyone. You know what I mean? So there's a sense of community around that. We used to have people, like, when we played Crestwood, the crowd would be split blue and red.
Like, where is that?
[00:22:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I still think when. When you guys. When Fort E would play Crown like that, that's. That's the greatest basketball high school environment I would ever see like that. You know, like, everyone and their mom is pulling up to that game, you know, for sure. Like, but out, like, I'm just worried about the. The basketball team in Toronto.
It's interesting just to think about it, too. I'm also just looking at the stat, too. Obviously, there's. We're talking about. There's a lot of talent in Canada. Right. But FIBA came out with the world rankings. I don't know if you saw this. I want to get your thoughts on this. USA is number one. Spain's number two.
Italy's number three.
Four is number Friends. If you're listening to this, Canada's not coming anytime soon. Just wait for it.
Serbia is number five. Lithuania is number six.
[00:23:21] Speaker A: Turkey.
Turkey.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: Istanbul. I want to go there one day. I might need to work on my lineup, you know, Turkey's number seven.
Australia is number eight. Germany, I feel like, should be higher. They are number nine, and then Canada is number 10. What are your thoughts on this ranking in terms of boys basketball? Fiba, obviously, this is more of, like, a Canada basketball ranking. Right. But what are your thoughts?
[00:23:52] Speaker A: I made that ranking.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: No, this is FIBA Feeba basketball ranking. But do you think this. This ranking is.
Does it.
Does it represent the talent in Canada at the age group level? So what are your thoughts?
[00:24:04] Speaker A: Definitely not. I mean, we're definitely not getting our best kids to play. That's first and foremost. You're gonna get me a lot of trouble with this question right here. But, you know, the views are my own. Not with any association that I'm with.
You know, the best kids are definitely not playing.
Those reasons can be for various things, you know, coaching availability, etc. I think the biggest thing for these kids is, like, they're playing way too many games. You know, I'm saying, like, man, I mean, you know what? We OD'd when we were in 40 or 82. Like, we had one season where we played almost 60 games in a season.
[00:24:35] Speaker B: Wow. And type of.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: And then these guys are going to play AAU right after. And then during aau, they're going out to play for the national team as well.
So, you know, that turns a lot of kids away as well. Right. Like, they prioritize AAU to get a scholarship over the national team.
So there are some kids that, you know, are at that level that possibly when they get to the U18, U19 level, might not be available to get out there. So, you know, it really depends on what age group this ranking is for. But I think ultimately, like, we as a country, you know, Canada basketball as an organization, we got to get together in terms of making sure that the best kids are available and we're not, you know, trying to get into any other involvements.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I think this might be under 19.
December 13th is when they release this. I just forgot about this, But I was like, I just searched it up and I found it. And I was like, this is interesting just because I'm like, I don't think, like you mentioned, it kind of has the second most NBA. NBA guys in the league. Even though this is an age group ranking for the boys, I would assume. I think the girls shout to the girls. I think they're like, third, I believe. Or, like, during that top range. Um, but like, you mentioned, too, like, some people prioritize AAU over playing for the national team. Like, do you think, like, that's been a. A culture, I feel like, for years it's not just, like, the most recent years, like, people are deciding to do that. Why do you think that culture has kind of stuck in terms of, like, okay, I want to rather do this because like, also, like, I'll talk to guys and it's like my key is like. And also these AAU coaches, like they're proud. Like, like what they're thinking is I have to get my guy a scholarship, you know, but also would argue sometimes like, you could get a scholarship playing for Canada basketball, you know, like some coaches still go out to there. What are your thoughts on that? Just like on a you. But also like that all the coaches are out there too. Right, right. They're all sitting in the front court.
[00:26:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, so I'll go back a little. So when it comes to the U18, U19 level, it's a little bit different because the, the FIBA stuff directly interferes with au. Like it happens literally at the same time. Like for, let's say the Nike circuit, for instance, from personal experience, like there's like a two day gap from when these guys land in Augusta to when their games start for Peace Jam. You know, now you're coming back from playing whatever six games in five days or whatever it is, and then time change travel, and then you're expected to play two games a day going into AAU for the next nine days. Like, no kid. I mean, if I had a kid, I'm not signing him up for that.
When it comes to the AAU over national team in terms of recruitment, I would kind of have to disagree. Just because there's what, 364 Division 1 programs. A lot of these schools don't have budgets to fly out to Munich and Zurich and all these places, like wherever these national programs, their venues are. So you're only getting high major schools to come out and really and truly, like how many high major kids are we pushing out as a country now with the portal and everything? Maybe one a year, maybe two.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: How's the portal impacted things from your, from your point of view?
[00:27:37] Speaker A: Man, the average age in the NCAA is 21 years old right now. It's crazy. Like, as a freshman, you're walking into certain environments and this is where I give kids the personal advice. You think you're a high major guy, go mid major, Think you're a mid major guy, go low major. Like drop a level. Because walking in to a program as an 18 year old at Kansas, you're not playing like there's no way. Right. Like, and by the time these schools are seeing Canadians in a lot of these programs that necessarily aren't providing a lot of exposure, like you're going onto the roster as the 11th, 12th, 13th guy.
So. And I Told you before the podcast started, like, like these coaches are watching rosters right now. Like, if I'm a mid major program, I'm looking at a high major program and going, who's the last four guys that don't touch the court that I think can come here and play at least 10 minutes for me, like, that's where it's at right now. And they're calling me, they're calling Joe, they're calling west. Like all these scouts, you know, Michael Torres, all these guys and just being like, so who do you think is going to go in the portal next year? What, what you sports guys should we be looking at? Like, these are the questions. And then it's like, oh, like what? High school guys are flying under the radar, Right? So this is where it comes back to programs prioritizing development and exposure and the right type of exposure. You don't go to like every single event. Like, go to the, the right ones that are going to provide the right opportunity for these kids and you know, ultimately they'll get something.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Yeah, you're talking about high school players going on the radar. I got a name for you, but we'll discuss about it afterwards. But talk. When you're having conversations with, with guys, you're telling me, hey, if you think you're a high major, go mid major. If you're mid major, if you think you are, go low mage. What is their thoughts on that? Because like, they're also probably thinking like, no, like, I want to play at the highest level. I want to play for the name brand school, you know, I want to play for the Kansas someone, you know? You know what I'm saying? Like, but they don't realize that like, you go there, you're likely rotting on the bench.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:34] Speaker B: What's the message? What's the perception? Are kids now seeing the landscape and being like, wow, you know what, is there more of an understanding compared to maybe it was a few years back or is it still like, they're kids at the end of the day?
[00:29:47] Speaker A: Right. They're kids. Social media makes everything look easy again. Like, you know, you're looking at guys and you're like, oh, I could do that too. It's not that easy. Like it's going to be a reality check for a lot of these guys.
I'll give you a personal example. Like, like, ish, like, that's my guy. This is a kid that committed to a high major school and you know, at the time it was the right school for him. Like he had the right coach. That wanted him. There was an unfortunate change that happened as soon as he got down there. It is what it is. He doesn't play that much.
He, quote unquote drops a level to a mid major program, solid conference, great coach, and now he's playing 25 minutes a game across the line, right? He's, he's doing what he's great at, shooting the ball. He's doing what he's great at, rebounding. Like, he's thriving in that environment and that's what it should be. At the end of the day. Like, man, do I want to go to a high major program and sit on the bench miserably? But it's going to be a reality check for a lot of these kids because, you know, sir, so and so coach from high major program is recruiting him, so they think, oh, I'm going to go be the star. But he's actually recruiting you for the 12th spot to be on the scout team.
And then reality hits. You're like, oh man, I went from playing 40 minutes a game in high school to not even like getting out of my warmup.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Is that like one of the worst calls you get from a kid being like, gav, you're probably right about this situation? Or like, what's that like when a kid calls you up and it's like, I'm not playing. This is, this is not like, I'm not, it's not what I imagined.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: What's that feeling like, knowing that, like, I don't know, maybe you try to warn them, maybe you try to tell them, like, this is the reality of things. Like what are those conversations look like? And obviously you feel for the kid, right?
[00:31:21] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's definitely one of those moments you want to tell, you tell them I told you so. But, but it's also like, you know, you're, you're, you're someone that the kid is calling when he's down, right?
So, like we have a situation right now with one of our kids personally, you know, he's going like facing this and it's like, okay, well like, what are you doing that you can actually control? Right? Like, okay, like you're a Division 1 player. Everyone knows that. Are you going to go down to a different program afterwards? Most likely, if you decide to leave, you are going to go to a different program. But while you are not playing, what are you doing to stay ready? What are you doing to show your coaches? Like, maybe we can throw this kid 5 minutes. Or are you just going to be miserable there and they're going to be like, all right, we're writing this kid off, he's not playing a second, we don't even want him in practice, etc. Yeah.
[00:32:05] Speaker B: In terms of US NCAA programs, are they recruiting Canada heavy? Like, what's that look like? You talked about the portal affecting things now.
Is recruitment as what it was maybe pre Covid when now we're seeing a lot of talent come out, a lot of guys going lottery, that kind of stuff. Right now I feel like I can't. Watching college basketball, I can't see like there's a clear cut guy going to get drafted this year for the first time in like four years. Which is kind of crazy to me. I think Covid, like this might be the COVID kind of like era of guys affected by it. But there's still like I'm looking at the high school talent. I'm seeing like the class of 2028. I'm like, there's a lot of guys that I think have MBA potential in that class. You know, even 2027, 2026, I'm looking at these classes. Right, but what's the level, what's the conversations like when you're talking to schools now? Are they recruiting Canada heavy? Do they want schools? Is there a Shea effect or is there not? No effect.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean they're still ringing the phones down. Don't get me wrong on that. Like they want to know who's on the radar, who's not on the radar, who should we look out for in future classes? And you know, it's three things now, right? Like those are three questions that they're asking us. And it's on multiple different levels. So they want to write names down. Either if they're going to recruit him this year, is he going to go juco so we could follow him? Is he going to go use sports so we can follow? They want to know that pipeline so they can have this kid's name circled and be like, okay, this is where he is. They're going to continuously follow him. They're going to reach out to him during their high school season as well because they want to build a relationship. So if they call them in two years from now, they'll be like, oh yeah, yeah, this is the coach from, you know, X school that called me. So that's always going to be there.
I think the Shea effect, I think that's great for a like a fan base level, like to understand like, oh yeah, there's a lot of kids playing now because you Know, we're seeing Shay doing so well, etc. When it comes to a prep school level, like, yeah, it's getting a lot of attention from a Division 1 school to be like, oh, like there's a market up here that, that we could recruit kids from. That's under tapped. Yeah, for sure, A thousand percent. But are they like, yeah, we're jumping into Canada because Shay is a Canadian. He's actually producing N. I don't think that's a thing.
[00:34:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Are schools like a lot of schools you see coming? Like, when are the periods when NCAA programs come to Canada? What does that look like? Because, like, I'm always wondering, like, was it, I think end of September, October, you guys had the battle on the four usually that was like a lot of schools will come down during that. What periods would you say like, NCAA programs are like, let me prioritize. Can let me come out and go check out the time.
[00:34:39] Speaker A: It's definitely preseason and then March.
[00:34:41] Speaker B: That's it.
[00:34:42] Speaker A: That's pretty much it. Because once in season they'll still pop in here and there. But it's so hard because our, our game schedules have to not conflict with their game schedules. And you know, they're traveling everywhere now. It's preseason, they're, you know, flying over the country, playing by games all, etc and then once league play starts, like conference play starts, it's a wrap. Like, you're not seeing anyone unless like they want this kid for sure.
They're not coming to see a kid just to come see him. They're going to be like, send me film on them. We'll watch him and then we'll come down there when we're free. And that's typically when they don't make the tournament.
[00:35:12] Speaker B: So what do you say to kids that might get left behind during this process where it's like, you don't have a coach that's maybe advocating for you or doesn't have the connections to these schools and that kind of stuff, what does that look like? Like for a kid that's kind of like lost in the shuffle. Very talented, but lost in the shuffle.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: Keep your options open, man. I think like when you walk into it, just be like, I want to play D1 basketball.
Like that's how you're going to get left behind. But if you walk into it like, I want to play post secondary basketball and understand where the landscape is shifting in terms of making the adjustment, being able to pivot to say, I'm going to go youth sports, develop there, dominate, then maybe I'LL balance out and go whatever. I think the biggest thing, honestly, is that youth sports got to start giving them free scholarships.
[00:35:54] Speaker B: Let's talk about that.
[00:35:55] Speaker A: I don't know if that's something Dave.
[00:35:56] Speaker B: Talked about, but he's like, it's insane that nothing has changed. He's like. He's even like, reached out to his own school. I think in his talk to, like, what can we do to just like. But there's no money. You know, there's no money. I also, like, I think I said on the podcast too, I don't think esports has money like that. You know, I did some stories for them in the past.
[00:36:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:15] Speaker B: I just don't think they have money.
[00:36:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:36:18] Speaker B: For an organization that's like, running and has all these schools. You saw McGill 2 shut down, like, a bunch of, like, their athletic programs, all that kind of stuff.
It's sad when you think about it. Right.
But yeah. Is there something you change about you sports?
[00:36:36] Speaker A: I mean, honest, to be honest, I don't know the landscape that much. Like, I. I just like after I left Fort Erie's, when I was kind of open to it, and this is kind of weird for me to say because my brother is actually a head coach in you sports. Yeah. That I don't watch youth sports, basketball. But, you know, I think, like, now that I'm actually in it, I go to his home games, I watch these games. I'm sitting back and I'm like, this is competitive right now.
It's only gonna get more competitive as time goes. But you also gotta give these kids a reason to stay back and not explore a juco. Not explore NAIA D2, D3. Like, we're fighting as a country against like, six different entities in the US that are providing these scholarships. What do these schools in the US like, these small jucos have that, like a University of Toronto doesn't have that Ontario Tech doesn't have that does. A McGill doesn't have. Like, these are prominent schools that have been around. Ontario Tech has only been around for like 20 years, but McGill's been around for 100, 100 plus years. Like, why are you, like, cutting down programs? So as far as Dave goes, I mean, I haven't heard the podcast. He obviously hasn't come out yet, but I would probably agree with him in terms of, like, they got to step it up in order for us to compete as a country and better ourselves overall.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. It's kind of just a tricky situation because it's like, you look at that and it's like people look view sports as like the last option at times, right?
[00:37:53] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:37:54] Speaker B: Is that the sentiment you get from kids? Like when, when you tell you might be a youth sports guy, what do kids feel when you tell them? Because I'll be. I have conversations with kids and it's like you mentioned esports to them, they'll laugh at you. But I covered esports. I know the talent that comes out of there. I've seen the pros that end up playing for the Canadian national team, senior level, you know, that have traveled, that are playing high level minutes, you know, just play the World cup qualifiers. I just watched Aaron Best do his thing. You know, there's talent in esports.
[00:38:22] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:38:22] Speaker B: But I feel like sometimes kids these days, I don't know where your conversations, like, what does that look like? Because I, when I talk to kids, it's a slap in the face. When I mentioned esports. What are your thoughts?
[00:38:31] Speaker A: I mean, I'll be honest with you, when I was at 40, I was a slap in my face too. So it's not like the kids are far off either. But I think from that scape, like that scope, like, it goes back to like just being able to provide ultimately, like us as a program, as prep schools, our job is to get this kid a free education or to get damn near close to it. So if a school is willing to offer something close where the kid's only coming out of his pocket, like two, three grand, like that's something different. But like if you're telling the kid, like in Ontario, here's a $5,000 athletic scholarship and you gotta figure out the rest, like the kid's definitely gonna go to juco, you know what I mean? And a lot of these kids, I think it's an education piece that programs need to educate them on just playing basketball post secondary and worrying about life when the ball stops dribbling, basically. And that's what we're lacking overall.
[00:39:22] Speaker B: Yeah. You mentioned obviously no money in esports.
Shout out to the, like the podcast I did with Dave, we talked about some schools, like they'll provide housing in the east BC or whatever it is. Some schools over there, Calgary, they might pay for your education. Like there's some stuff. Ontario, there's nothing, sadly. How much has though, like nil changed because now like, I don't know how many OUA guys have like left to go play in the ncaa. There's one guy in Laurentian, I think he's playing some minutes on Kansas's roster. And I joke with Dave, I was Like, I'd become best friends with Darren Peterson, you know, like, you know, but how much has like the nil changed the prep school basketball landscape? Do kids think, like, I'm about to go make a bag?
And how has like that adapted things to where it's like, do kids really get paid? Like, what does that look like?
[00:40:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it changes a lot.
You know, I think like, kids now are transactional when they come to a lot of these prep schools. Like, what can you do for me? Because they understand, or not even understand, they hear these amounts that these guys potentially might be making, and they're not looking at their bank statement, they're just looking like, I could walk up to him. I'm making like 5,000, $500,000 at this school. And what you're gonna be like, oh, yeah. I mean, if you, if you, if you're at Kansas, you're probably making 500k. But in reality, like, he's probably getting like $5,000. Right. I think a lot of these schools don't have money and a lot of them have too much money. So it's, it's a wide range, right? Like, some of these guys are making six figures, but coming outta high school, man. Like, there's guys that are making five grand and there's guys that are probably making 500 grand. And I mean, we've seen reports of like AJ Debance on what he's making potentially off, like, you know, like, we're talking about like millions and millions of dollars, right? And then there's also kids that are probably making a thousand dollars and there's also kids that are just getting a free ride.
[00:41:09] Speaker B: What's that like too? Because some schools will like offer a kid. Like, what do you weigh in terms of, like, you could go play esports, average 20 or whatever it is.
And Dave mentioned this too. He had Aaron rooms. He could go to a NCAA school, potentially be like the 9th, 10th guy on that roster and make money.
How do you weigh that conversation with? Maybe a kid is like, hey, financially, I might need the money. I might just go sit on the bench. Like, do you have those conversations with guys where it's like, you know what, you might not play, but you can make money. Like, this is how much you can make.
[00:41:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So we've been in those situations, like obviously at Fort Erie. I think the one thing that we've always maintained is we don't get involved in the money part. We don't talk about it with coaches. Like our job as a coach 1 getting you a scholarship, 2. Talking to you about minutes in terms of long term basketball play. The financial decision at the end of the day is the families. You know, I mean, I think when we start talking about finances and we start putting numbers in our head as a coach, as a leader in the program, as a stakeholder in this industry, like we're not putting the kids best intentions forward in terms of a long term play, but we're starting to get involved in the financial conversations. And I don't know what a lot of these parents and family's financial situations are like. I know mine and that's it. Right. So I think as far as Nil stuff, man, it's a, that's a hard conversation to have with a lot of kids and families.
[00:42:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And a lot of kids not getting agents. What are your thoughts on that? Because now I see, I'll be honest, everybody wants to be an agent nowadays. Yeah, I think it's, it's sweet. Um, I've had whoever had on the pod, I had Mike George on, I had Mike Simonette on. And like they talked about, it's like you don't really see that much money until X amount of years into this business.
How, how has that changed things too now? Prep school players getting agents or like people reaching out to your guys and it's like trying to handle or like make sure like I, my, my conversations with guys that are in it. Like I have relationships, a lot of these agents.
I truly think these guys have the best interest of the kid. They want to help them. But also like, what's that like to. To for you? Obviously you say you stay away from it and they probably reach out to the families. But what's that like when you're seeing a kid now? Just like.
Because when the agent gets evolved, that's when I think the priority one is like, oh, I can make a bag. You know, that's when the shift in mindset things. Right.
What are your thoughts on that whole thing where it's like now agents getting involved at a very young age.
[00:43:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:37] Speaker B: Because that's the game too because like Nil opened it up to where it's like guys would usually wait until your potential NBA draft. That's when they contact you or whatever. It's like you're going through college, I see potential. But now middle school, they're watching you. They're like, this guy has a future. I'm trying to make sure I represent him. Like what are your thoughts on. Is that, is that helping? Is that ruining things in Canada?
[00:44:01] Speaker A: I wouldn't say helping or ruining. I would describe it as the same thing as the preps lean. There's established places and there's mom and pops, right? So there's a reason why guys like Mike, George, Simonetta, all these guys are able to do what they do is because they have a solid infrastructure and they don't go out there and they're not trying to grab every kid. They try to grab the kids and, you know, convince these kids that, hey, like, I have a backing that can support where I think you can go.
And those are better prospects than me walking on the street and being like, I'm gonna sign 10 high school guys today because of whatever reason.
[00:44:36] Speaker B: So I hope one that sticks, you know, and.
[00:44:39] Speaker A: But the thing is, like really and truly, like, what are you really helping the kid do? Like, the school is gonna offer him whatever money they think he's worth. Like, you're not gonna negotiate like 2, 300 thousand dollar extra for him. Like, there's no, there's no way, if anything, schools might get deterred from dealing with kids that have agents that aren't associated with a big agency or have a doctor, et cetera. Right. Like, there are a lot of schools be like, oh, like who's in a circle? And you'll be like, oh, like there's this guy, like, oh, what's his relation? Like, oh, it's this guy. And they're like, we're not really interested. Like, we did that at Fort Erie and we're a prep school, you know. I mean like we'd hear be like, oh, like, who do we have to call the parents Uncle? Like, what is it? Oh, no, he has like this guy like, who's is like his brother.
No, no, we're good. Like, we don't want to deal with brothers. Like, like brothers, you know what I mean? So I think like. Yeah. Has it changed it?
Yes, for sure, a thousand percent.
But a lot of the top talent guys that the bigger, you know, quote unquote fish are getting, like, those are guys that are going to make it and make good money. Like you said, like two, three, four years down the road.
[00:45:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
In terms of like talent in Canada, I'm like looking at the prep school scene.
Alberta's having a wave, a talent coming out.
[00:45:51] Speaker A: Crazy.
[00:45:51] Speaker B: What are your thoughts on that, Alberta? Just coming up out of nowhere, shout out to immigration. I feel like there's a lot of South Sudanese players. You know, those are my Africans. I love it. You know, like, what are your thoughts on the talent? That's a hidden Spot. I didn't expect Alberta to be punching out talent, but like, what are your thoughts on that? And then I want to, I want to get you sort of give me your ranking of like some of the top provinces. But what are your thoughts on the rise of Alberta?
[00:46:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it goes back to like the national ranking itself. Right. Like when you look at all these international countries that are ranked and then you look at within Canada, like, Ontario is probably like third, to be honest with you.
[00:46:26] Speaker B: Really?
[00:46:27] Speaker A: I think so. But it goes back to what I said. There's not a lot of competitiveness. The problem with provinces like, let's say Quebec. Quebec has for the last five, ten years always been in the shadow. So these guys are just dogs when they come to us. And when you play Quebec teams, Ontario teams go to, you better be expected to get picked up full court for the whole game, like, and they're just subbing guys in and out, just full court and they're just about defense. Like, the competitiveness is there. And I think Alberta is the same way. It's competitive, competitiveness over skill. Whereas Ontario's like, ah, we got 12 NBA guys coming out of this province alone. Five of them alone are from GTA. Like, we could do this. So, like, we're just going to come dribble, dribble, cross, cross, buddy. It's not going to work. And we've seen it in nationals this year. Like, it's tough out there, man. And I'm from Ontario. I coach Team Ontario. Like, I, I seen the talent out there. Like when we're losing to provinces like Alberta that necessarily don't have as much resources as us. Like, we're in the hub of Toronto, Canada. Basketball's here. A lot of the programs like junior academy, et cetera, run out of here. Like, why are we getting run out of gyms as a province? Like, it's because we're just not competitive. Yeah.
[00:47:38] Speaker B: Where would you rank it? So you said Ontario is third for sure. So give me your. Let's have. I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the top four would probably be Alberta, bc, Quebec, Ontario. Am I correct with that? Am I missing something? Alberta, bc, Quebec and Ontario fourth.
I'm thinking those, I'm just saying those are top four. But what would be your ranking in those four? I still think Ontario is number one, to be honest with you, because I'm looking at the talent and like most of the guys I would say are playing and we'll get into this conversation probably next guys are playing south of the border that are not playing for Ontario sometimes. Right.
So I kind of give it a, you know, like I feel like Alberta's more prideful, like they're gonna, they're every Alberta guy's playing for the NAT for that, for that, for that province, you know. So what would you rank? Give me your ranking of those four that I mentioned. Alberta, bc, Quebec and Ontario.
[00:48:26] Speaker A: I love Quebec, to be honest with you. So like if it was, if it wasn't for the results last year, I would have Quebec number one.
[00:48:32] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: Just because of how dog they are.
But I think the other problem with Ontario, to be honest with you, is that a lot of the Ontario kids play for the national team. Like if you look at the, like the makeup of the rosters, like it's probably like seven or eight guys that are actually in Ontario. So those same guys aren't going to come and play provincials as well because again now you're playing like a 90 game season more than the NBA? Way more than the NBA. So I would have to go Alberta, Quebec, Ontario and then bc.
[00:48:58] Speaker B: That's crazy. I would probably go.
That's interesting. I'll probably go Ontario, Alberta's probably next for me.
Quebec and then I'll go bc.bc to me still, still hidden. There's still some talent there, but I still think it's probably.
[00:49:14] Speaker A: So are you going based on the talent or are you going based off of like nationals, who's actually competing and playing?
[00:49:19] Speaker B: I'm going both. I'm going both, to be honest with you. But I'm also just like, I think BC 4th for me because what NBA talent have they produced in the last how many years?
Like can we think of a guy? I think there's a nice. Who played, you play. He has potential. He's going to California. Really good player. I think he's Bakari, I think his last name. He's really good. Outside of him, I'm like, I don't really see any like. And then there's some good college guys that, that play for a few years.
Alberta.
[00:49:46] Speaker A: To me, the real problem with BC is they need a prep infrastructure.
[00:49:50] Speaker B: So what does that look like in bc? Have you ever seen like what goes on over there?
[00:49:54] Speaker A: And they just want. So there's two things. One, the problem with BC real problem is that all these kids play for their traditional high schools. So when they play for their traditional high schools, they're in a public school system. They're probably only practicing two, three times a week maybe. And then they're playing within like Their board, basically. So it's like this is like AFSA and that's what the max is. So there's only a certain level these kids are going to get to. The other thing is BC is that they still haven't gone to the model of actually traveling out into Ontario for prep schools until their postgrad year. But at that point, man, as a postgrad coming into Ontario, like you're going to get a rude awakening because these guys have been playing prep basketball for so long. But Alberta has kind of adapted in terms of like obviously there's Edge, there's WCPA that have these programs between Albert, Calgary and Edmonton where guys can stay home and get that prep experience. But BC doesn't have that.
[00:50:44] Speaker B: Does BC want it?
[00:50:47] Speaker A: But there are people in bc. There are people in BC that want it. Yeah. But the problem is that they can't get the kids out of their high school system.
[00:50:54] Speaker B: Why is that? Is just the kids are like, I want to play for my high school. They love it too much.
[00:50:58] Speaker A: I think it's that it's kind of like how like here in Toronto we have the rule like if a kid plays prep basketball, like they can't play in like their board league, they can't play in offset if they do decide to come back, like they're banned for like a year or something.
[00:51:11] Speaker B: That's crazy.
[00:51:13] Speaker A: So I think that's the problem with BC is like those coaches that are in these programs are just not really giving the real to these kids in terms of like. Yeah, as a talent there for sure, like 1,000%. You guys see like guys like Jacob Holt and all these guys that are coming out of bc. Isaac, Jack. But again there's no infrastructure there. Right.
[00:51:31] Speaker B: You mentioned obviously you have Alberta and Quebec one two you recruited heavily. I feel like yeah, those two talents. One guy, NPA has ranked number one in 2027 class.
[00:51:42] Speaker A: Dang.
[00:51:42] Speaker B: And Gore.
I remember you mentioned it to him a few years back to me I remember being in the gym like you gotta watch this kid. Yeah, I didn't realize. I didn't realize. Shout out to you.
Why was that an emphasis for you? Just like to and promised Nalandu obviously one of the top point guys in his class.
Why did you see that as potential? What were you hearing about what's going on in Alberta and. And getting the talent there and wanted Mario Texas Tech.
[00:52:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:10] Speaker B: Or another guy, you know, from. From Alberta. Like what did you see there? And like what made you drawn to.
[00:52:18] Speaker A: A real shout out for Dang is actually Steve Houston Okay. Steve actually seen dang's mixtape on Twitter.
[00:52:24] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:52:24] Speaker A: And when Steve was done, because at the time we had two teams at fort Erie. When Steve was done recruiting for his team and he couldn't take dang, he was like, yo, I think you should look at this guy. It was one, one video called Charles. And we're like, yo, we gotta get this kid for sure. Got on the phone with his dad. Easy recruitment in terms of bringing him over.
But that, that was Steve for sure. Promise. I think like, Wes had him on his radar for a long time. And I went out to nationals in wherever bishop's universities, I don't even know, small town Quebec. So we went up there and this is a kid that's playing in nationals, like, and he's torching the place. I'm talking like five feet out from the FIBA three point line, like his kids chucking shots. He's got a great dribble. We bring him onto campus the year that we played prolific at home. So it was a crazy environment for him to see.
And then Mariel, obviously, you know, I mean, he was like 6:10 sitting on the bench for uplay when he was in like U15. Right. So great prospect there. So I think our biggest thing has always been like grabbing these guys that we don't have to fight with people and just understanding what their potential is. And obviously going back to like, our root is development.
So we know we have the coaches, we have the infrastructure to do everything properly. So these guys that we have, can we identify them? Can we get them on campus? Can we show them where we've taken guys that were similar to them and then now prove it with them.
[00:53:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting. I might do a whole podcast just on Alberta. Just like the wave of talent coming out.
[00:53:54] Speaker A: Crazy, man.
[00:53:54] Speaker B: Man, it's crazy. Obviously a lot of what you do is like, you recruit guys to a middle of nowhere at the time for Erie, you know, still middle of nowhere, you know, but a lot of talent went there. I'm guessing too at times.
Maybe some u. S. Schools, prep schools, will see the town and be like, come to the states. Come play over there. I was shocked just how much loyalty, you know, like, guys would just stay.
[00:54:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:20] Speaker B: Because, you know, but sometimes, you know, you'd probably have a conversation with guys like, what's the best fit for you? Should you stay in Canada? Should you stay to the states? What's your thoughts on that? Like, do you think it's needed to go to the states? And there's obviously other prep schools A lot of Canadians doing their things, doing their thing in the States. A lot more exposure at times too.
[00:54:39] Speaker A: Right.
[00:54:40] Speaker B: What are your thoughts on that? Should Canadians like that are dying to go to the States? Is it as glamorous and what are your conversations look like with kids that are, that want to.
[00:54:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's necessary in today's world. And I think the only reason it existed before is because like the OSBA started in 2013 for instance. You know what I mean? MPA started in 2016 or 2017. So when you, when you look at it from that scope, like, yeah, okay, like in 2012, 2011, like guys had to go to the US if they wanted to play and get exposure. I think we're in an environment now where with the portal, with all these different factors, it's not about necessarily getting in front of the coaches and you know, the coach actually laying eyes on you. It's about the coach knowing who you are, seeing video of you, seeing if you could be on their roster. And that's what we have the infrastructure now in Canada for. Like the NPA broadcasts every single game.
They have a network of 300 coaches that they can call at the NCAA, NCAA level. They got every youth sport coach that they can send an email out to about players. Like the exposure is provided in Canada now for sure. So if I was an athlete, it honestly depends on situation. Like if I'm getting a call from whatever school, I have to really weigh like what is this school gonna do for me more than an edge 40 royal crown, what's being offered, like if I could stay in my backyard and play and have my parents see me, etc, like what's the need? And we've seen kids bounce back.
[00:56:09] Speaker B: Yeah. What are your thoughts though? If you say you're the number one prospect, you know, and you feel like you've played or you feel like you've reached your max in Canada, like you mentioned before, that like the Corey Joseph's, Tristan Thompson's, they needed to go to Canada. But then Tristan Thompson was considered like probably the best big in his class at that time. Right. Goes what, fourth overall. The NBA draft for guys that are that talented, that are like a Will Riley, you know, he ends up going to Phelps school.
[00:56:36] Speaker A: Right.
[00:56:36] Speaker B: That are top of the top potential, like number one prospect in their class.
Jamal Mary might be like the rare occasion, Leonard might be like the rare occasion too. But I feel like Leonard got his buzz like playing in Canada, you know, obviously playing in the States for a few years. But like, for guys that are like that highly touted, do you feel like it's necessary for them to go to Canada to play the competition on a consistent basis? And like, some people want to be like, ESPN is not going to rank you. That's the biggest thing. Right. You're not going to be ranked by ESPN until you go to the states.
[00:57:10] Speaker A: Right. I mean, listen, I used to think like that for sure. I think Leonard Miller changed my perspective on it 1000%. And before that it was Josh Primo. Like, we had Josh at Royal Crown and we had Alabama at Royal Crown. Literally, like every other week recruiting him. You know, we had Leonard brought out Calipari to our gym. Like, these are unheard of. Like, if the talent exists, these coaches are going to come out. Look at Isaiah Hamilton. Like, they're coming at 7am to watch him practice. Like University of Missouri is coming to watch him at 7am like, we're sitting in the gym with the coach watching Isaiah practice. Like, they will come. If the talent is here again, it goes back to a level exposure and what it is that a program could actually offer you.
[00:57:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:57:53] Speaker A: Like, are you gonna go to so and so Prep in Southern Missouri and then live in an attic and play like the public schools around, or do you want to play in the MPA against the top Canadian talent? Against some of the US Schools that are being brought up now. Like, on the girls side, there's faith, you know, faith, family, etc.
And on the boys side, there will be that too soon too.
But I don't think it's a need for this talent to go down south. Like, the coaches will come to you.
[00:58:20] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to end off the podcast asking you a few questions. Kind of like fill in the bank blank type of questions, just about prep school.
Let me ask you this. The biggest lie families are told about prep school basketball is we're going to.
[00:58:37] Speaker A: Get you a D1 scholarship.
[00:58:38] Speaker B: Is that. How often is that in the pitch?
[00:58:41] Speaker A: Everyone's pitches that everyone's pitching that the real pitch should be, we're going to get you a scholarship.
That's what the pitch should be.
[00:58:49] Speaker B: What do people not see behind the scenes about the ongoings of prep school basketball?
[00:58:57] Speaker A: I think it's the politics that we gotta deal with. You know, I think we get calls from parents, we get calls from AAU guys, we get calls from agents, and anyone really that has anything to do with the kid, we're gonna get a call about. Right. And in that, in that time span, kids are also getting recruited by other schools. Like, you don't know who's reaching out to them on the DM and they're transferring mid year, etc. Like, we faced that our first year in Fort Erie.
But I think that's what people don't see is the amount of phone calls that are happening outside the practices, etc.
[00:59:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that to me too. Like, the politics in the US There's a lot of politics. I don't want to make it seem like just a can, but like, in Canada, everyone knows each other, which is a sad thing. So, like, you know, like, you'll hear so much conversations about the politics that goes on, and it's like, yeah, it's kind of sad. Like sometimes it's. It's. You know, it impacts. Like this impacts just, I feel like the growth of certain things, you know, in this game.
Last thing I'm gonna ask you to fill in the blank for the hardest truth about prep school basketball in Canada.
[00:59:58] Speaker A: Is it's not easy. It's not easy out there. You know what I mean? So I think, like, our biggest thing is we don't understand how hard it is to play at that next level. And again, go. I mean, I've been preaching it from the beginning, I think is like, that lack of competitiveness for these kids and programs to understand what it takes, like, even for a program to be like, oh, esports is your last option. This kid might not get recruited for you, like, to play on a esports team. Like, I watch Ontario Tech play now. Like, literally, there's two kids on that roster that I seen play prep basketball last year. Like, that's crazy to me. You know what I mean? Like, these kids are playing at the highest level of Canadian basketball and they're just cracking a U sports roster, right? So I think, like, kids gotta get familiar with what that landscape is and understand the reality of it. And coaches and programs, people also feel.
[01:00:47] Speaker B: Like the Canadian model, the aau, the US Model falls so closely. I've heard talks from people be like, why don't we adopt this European style where it's like, you play for.
You don't play all the games. Like you mentioned, some guys are playing 60 plus games, right, where they don't play that many games, but instead they practice five times a week and then they play a game maybe once a week type of thing, or like once every, like two weeks or something like that, you know? And then maybe now with the cbl, maybe you funnel your talent into playing for a club team like that, you know, where it's kind of like, you know, like the way Luca Nich and those guys came up.
[01:01:24] Speaker A: Right.
[01:01:26] Speaker B: Sort of like that model. You think Canada would ever get to, that would ever consider. Are we too closely, like, intertwined with the US that and the preps scene over there and the AAU basketball culture. That would never happen. What are your thoughts?
[01:01:37] Speaker A: I think we have to change with times. Like, the portal has changed my mind in terms of how I think basketball is going to be in the next five to 10 years. I think from the standpoint of where it's going to go, I think you're right. It needs to go to that playing once. But that also goes to teams have to realize I don't have to go to the states to play U.S. teams to get exposure.
We have teams in Canada that don't play in the US and their kids are getting recruited by Division 1 schools. How is that?
Like, that's a European model. Like, they stay within their little town or whatever, and they do what they do. Like, even Mont Verde. Look at Montverd. Like, they play within their state league, which is probably like 10, 15 games. And then they play in the EYBL, which is probably like another 15 games. So they're playing 30 games for the year. But as a Canadian team, I'm playing 18 games here in the NPA. Then I'm playing 18 games in the OSPA. Then I'm playing 18 games with the grind session. Then I'm also going to four independent tournaments outside. Like, this is almost too much exposure for the kids, when in reality, like, you don't need that much. You just need a platform for these kids to play on.
[01:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah. What are you most excited about? NPA season?
Halfway Mark. What does that look like for the end of the year?
Obviously, college coaches come near the end when the finals are. What are you most excited about? What's been the most enjoyable part for this job for you?
[01:03:01] Speaker A: I think the most enjoyable job is honestly, like, dealing with everyone now. You know what I mean? It's not like a hate thing anymore. Like, I could get on the phone with Mike and Chris from Royal Crown and we can have a normal conversation. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like, you know, the rivalry's gone, right? So. But I think overall the biggest thing for me is, like, going into March. Like, I think it's the most exciting time. There's a lot of teams that are strong on paper. There's a lot of teams that necessarily might not be strong on paper because those guys are flying under the radar, but I think the NPA is literally wide open this year in terms of who can potentially win it in March. And we have. We're yet to see Edge play other than one game when they played Royal Crown in October.
[01:03:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I got a MVP candidate for you. Yusuf Ahmed, my guy, he's leading all categories in that, man. Shout out to him. Downtown legend, man.
I'll be honest, if he doesn't win mvp, I'm gonna have a long talk with you. Long conversation with you.
[01:03:54] Speaker A: Joe, too.
[01:03:55] Speaker B: I'm gonna hit up Joe and be like, well, what is going on with you, bro? But a lot of talent. Npa, like, even if he doesn't win world crown, obviously, I think they've been dominating what they've been doing. So.
Yeah, I'm excited just to watch. Are you on All Canadian community? What does that look like?
[01:04:09] Speaker A: I'm not. No, no, no.
[01:04:11] Speaker B: I didn't get a call.
I don't scout. Scout talent.
I don't look at these games. But like, excited just to see what you guys have been building your new role and just can't thank you enough for. For coming on a podcast talking about what the status in prep school basketball. And I feel like it's much needed conversation for parents, for players, people that are in the scene that I feel like some of this information they know, but some of the hidden gems, the conversations, the politics that we talk about doesn't really get talked about on a platform like this. So I think this is like a much needed conversation. So can't thank you enough, Cash.
[01:04:46] Speaker A: Appreciate it, man. Thank you.
[01:04:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And yeah, excited to. To watch this season and follow the NPA and what you guys got cooking on.
[01:04:53] Speaker A: Definitely, man. No, it's definitely going to be interesting. So I appreciate you having me on.
[01:04:55] Speaker B: Yeah. This has been the Canadian basketball show. Your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball with my guy Kev. And we out.
