Life as an NBA agent with Klutch Sports' Mike George

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:04] Speaker B: Welcome to the Canadian Basketball show, your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. I'm your host Lee Ben Osman. We got a big guest in studio somebody. When I was creating this podcast and I was coming up with a list of people that I wanted on this podcast, he was near the top. He's not your ordinary guest. He's a juggernaut, he's a pioneer. I would say one of the most influential people not just in Canadian basketball, but sports world. Malton's own NBA agent, Mike George. How you doing? [00:00:34] Speaker A: Doing well, man. Can you redo that whole thing again? It made me feel so good. Stop the kidnapp. I appreciate that. [00:00:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Welcome to the show though. What's the offseason been like for you? I know you kind of things winding down, busy, slow. [00:00:45] Speaker A: It's winding down a little bit but I don't think you ever really have an off season. But I would say it's been good, you know, done with the free agency stuff and obviously summer league happened and this year's kind of busy too and my son was playing the Peach Jam and stuff like that, so. But definitely winding down but just gonna pick right back up in a month. [00:01:02] Speaker B: So you mentioned free agency. Just want to ask you, what are your thoughts? Do you feel like free agency's dead? Like as an agent people are like, it's more so like deals are kind of done beforehand. What's your take on that? As a guy that deals? [00:01:13] Speaker A: I wouldn't know that you're not allowed to do this beforehand. Oh yeah, no, I think it still exists. I mean, I think, I think the times have changed in regards to that. You know, you're not going to have as many max players and the middle of the road guys are kind of like gone in a way. So it's either you're either making this or that. And I think the discrepancy in the gap in between has become pretty huge. And you see guys that normally are mid level guys that are signing for minimum contracts, that are really talented dudes like Tyus Jones or different guys. So times have changed. [00:01:46] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to obviously go through your, your entire journey becoming an agent, talk some Canadian basketball, but also like get an insight to like what's it like to an agent? I think you manage over what like 30 plus clients? Like how many clients? [00:01:58] Speaker A: Like 20 plus. [00:01:59] Speaker B: 20 plus? [00:01:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:00] Speaker B: What's the day to day? Like, like say like a regular during the season. [00:02:07] Speaker A: Honestly, anything. I think it's just a random. I think when you get up Anything can be expected in a way. Right. But I think a lot of it is, you know, just kind of talking with your guys and. And, you know, everyone's different. You know, some players like to talk all the time. Others are like, you know, like a Dwight Powell, like, just whenever you need something to see him type of thing. Right. But, you know, Dylan Brooks probably wants to talk every day. Just kidding. But everyone's different, and I think the need base is different depending on what's happening during the season and if there's a need going on or some situations come up or someone's not playing or, you know, you got to talk to the gm, the coaches or whatever in regards to, you know, what's going on and get guys information. I think the key thing for us as Asian is information and providing the guys with the information and the parents. [00:02:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I've read, like, you never, like, dreamed up about becoming an agent, right? Kind of, like, I would say stumbled, but, like, the opportunity presented itself, and it was like, it seemed like you were the right guy, kind of filling a need that was needed in Canadian basketball. Can you just walk me through, like, when that became a need and you were like, you know what? Like, I'm guessing people are approaching you. Be like, mike, why don't you do this? [00:03:12] Speaker A: Yeah. I think obviously, organically happened as a teacher and educator for 13 years. Love being in the classroom, love helping kids. And obviously we started CIA Bounce, and that program took off, and one of the guys got an opportunity to kind of go through this process. And as we're going through, it just wasn't an agent or agency that was comfortable with. And then obviously the thought was like, would I do it? And, you know, initially I didn't want to do it. And as time went along, you know, I felt comfortable with one particular agency. I was like, you know what? Maybe I'll do this, but I'm not going to do it on my own because I got to learn this thing and understand it. So I did take a leap of faith. And, you know, being an educator is pretty good job in Canada. A lot of stability, security, and to kind of go on an unknown was a little different. But I definitely. It was a risk, you know, but it's something. I feel like what you just said was a void that was in Canada and they needed to be filled. [00:04:05] Speaker B: Was there anyone doing it before you? [00:04:08] Speaker A: I'm sure there's guys. Like, I think Bernie Lee was doing it. Matt Slan, kind of like, on a European level. [00:04:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:16] Speaker A: And kudos to him for you know, sticking with it for as long as he did. And I think he's still doing it, but, you know, because it was not easy, you know, on that side of it. But as far as the NBA, I don't think outside of Bernie Lee, anyone was doing at that time. I think later on, Gary Durant and some other guys went along those paths to do it. [00:04:35] Speaker B: Yeah. How hard was it to leave, like, coaching, teaching, to go into this full time? Obviously you're picking up like a whole different career that you're kind of like new to, Right. And I'm guessing, like, you're established. You. You had everything going and then making a complete jump. Obviously now obviously more successful and not obviously more successful, but like, you know, you know, I'm talking about, like, it's more a complete shift. Like, what was that like? Was it hard? [00:05:02] Speaker A: Extremely hard. But I think I had a lot of support, you know, a lot of people behind me, obviously the family at that time. And. And I had an amazing friend, principal that was at the school that I was at. And, you know, even as I was transitioning, I was still able to, you know, teach and do it at the same time in a way for a couple years. And just having his support and being able to do it, I think it was, you know, any transition, you was always hard and challenging. And people look at it and they're like, you know, the problem is when you're doing it, there's people that are supporting you and there's people that want you to fail. And I think in order to be where you're at, you can't. You gotta have thick skin and you can't worry about what other people think. [00:05:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Growing up in Malton, what was that. [00:05:41] Speaker A: Like, Malt in the ma. Yeah, it's different, you know, I think to be from Malton and understand what Malton is, you have to kind of be from there. And the guys that are there, they know, like. And shout out to Jerome and Sherman, Hamilton and Swiss, my dog. Like, it's just. There's a certain way we carry ourselves, right. And there's certain, you know, when we played other teams or even for basketball, whether it's Bathurst, Oakwood, Eastern, you know, we had our own. [00:06:07] Speaker B: Little. [00:06:08] Speaker A: Malton was Malton. And when we played in the summertime, you knew you were going to get. We didn't have the tallest guys, but you're going to get some dogs. So Malton's just always been a place of overcoming, defying all odds and just being really successful in life. And even Jay Martin and other guys like that too. And tricks. I think Trix is killing it right now with the comedy stuff. So shout out to Maltin. For sure. [00:06:29] Speaker B: Yeah. I asked this a few times to people. What neighborhood produces the best talent in your opinion? [00:06:34] Speaker A: 100% N. I mean, I feel like Scarborough, man. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Scarborough got some guys. [00:06:40] Speaker A: Ain't no chance. Scarborough knows that too. I said what I want to do. [00:06:43] Speaker B: Can they claim Shay, though? Shay. Shay claims Shay. I don't know. But some people in Scarborough, maybe his. [00:06:49] Speaker A: Pops and everybody's out in Scarborough, but he ain't, you know, Shay is Hamilton guy. But I would say, honestly, it's unique because when you think of New York and some of these other places, people think Canada is this huge, gigantic place where basketball is coming from. And it's really like the GTA. Hamilton's an hour this way. It's carbon's about two hours. I can about 30, 40 minutes that way. And it's really all this talent just coming from this one hub, which is quite amazing. So to say where produces the most, I would probably just say it's just the. The coaches and the. The structure we kind of have here helped a lot in regards to producing those. Yes. [00:07:21] Speaker B: I might say downtown got some guys, but it's been a while. I don't know. Tyler Murray, man. Shout out to my guy, Tyler Murray, if you know him. Yeah. Wait, where'd you play it? [00:07:37] Speaker A: Morningstar. Well, actually, I'm a. I'm. And if you talk about malt and I moved everywhere. I moved about 30 times in my life, but high school, I started at Westwood and then I switched over to Morningstar. The big, big. No, no, but I did it. [00:07:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:48] Speaker A: So. But I played at Morningstar the last couple years. [00:07:50] Speaker B: Did you compete with the Eastern Congress? [00:07:52] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, they know that. Shoot. Our junior year we went undefeated. And yeah, honestly, they're lucky I didn't stay at Westwood or Eastern. Commerce would never won that championship, I'll tell you that much. And they know that. [00:08:03] Speaker B: My fact check what it is. So when you get into agency, what was that like, first year? Like. [00:08:12] Speaker A: Like I said, it's new, right. You're literally going into an unknown place and then obviously going to work in the us so there's different challenges I faced, right? You're. First of all, you're a visible minority. And then secondly, you're Canadian going into an American market. And third, you just knew, right? You don't know what's happening. So I think when I first went over there, you know, I'm a Very. To me it's like proof is in the pudding. You know, it's results driven. So I was really determined to kind of show my worth and what it was about. And you know, I would say the first five years I was like, man, I'm gonna be in this green room, I'm gonna recruit, get the best guys, da da da da. And for the first five, six years I was in that green room. But then you realize there's more to being an agent than the green room. And, and I call those guys that care about the green room, they're like draft agents. My whole thing and my philosophy and mindset changed after the first five years of like I'd rather be a career agent and try help guys get to their second, third contract. And then after basketball, what are you doing? So that became more of the focus. [00:09:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it's tough. Cause I know some agencies, I won't say them, I feel like some have like a quota, right? You gotta like have this many first round picks or you know, you get the boot type of, you know, like. [00:09:18] Speaker A: In a way, in a way there's a lot of pressure for that. And I think all the agents are in the room and they're all fighting about like all these dudes. In reality is like you can have the top two, three, four picks but if they don't make it to the next contract, how successful was it? [00:09:31] Speaker B: Yeah, well, how did you go about like building trust with players, like in terms of whether it's with families too and like I don't know if you want to reveal your pitch to, to, to get them to sign with you, but what was that like in terms of like early on? Because I'm obviously it seems like you were the guy, right? Like one and every Canadian is like I said Mike George, you know, everyone kind of knew, you know what I'm saying? So what was that like early on? [00:09:56] Speaker A: I think once you show like first we got a credible agency and then you show your competent and you could do the job, you know about contracts and different things. And I think once you get past that and the question comes down, can you trust the person? You know, will they have your best interest in mind? Are they always going to fight for you? Now, do you make mistakes as you go along in this thing? 100. I mean that's life, right? I think you live and learn by different mistakes that take place. But you also got to know the people that you're working for, working with that they have to trust and belief that you're going to do best by them, you know, because when parents are going to sleep and whatever, like they don't know the business. Like you know it. [00:10:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:29] Speaker A: So they want to know, to make sure that whoever they're with is someone that you can trust. Someone that is going to have the best interest of their kid and their person. It's not just about making money and signing off on a contract and onto the next person. So I would say for me know, that was the biggest thing, is just the trust factor. [00:10:43] Speaker B: Yeah. You mentioned the green room. What was those like? Like the first few ones. What was the first one like? [00:10:48] Speaker A: Cool, man. [00:10:49] Speaker B: It was cool. [00:10:49] Speaker A: I think it's like, you know, it's, it's an experience, Right. I think you're there and everyone's kind of dressed up in their nicest suit. And you know, it's also nerve wracking because you're like, yo, when's the guy going to be called? You know, so, you know, sometimes you see some agents sitting in there for like pick number 28 and the guy's still sitting and you can see them sweating bullets because it's like, did you do your due diligence? Did you know? Because I would be like, don't sit in the green room unless you know for sure your guy's going in the green room. Because if not, he doesn't go in that top 20 or top 23, it becomes a very long night for you. [00:11:19] Speaker B: It's tricky now because I've been to the last three and now they've been giving out 25 invites. [00:11:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:25] Speaker B: So it's like there's a chance, like, you know, like 25 is a guarantee that someone's going to get picked and anything can change. [00:11:31] Speaker A: Like, you know, a team can go in and say like they're expecting, you know, John Smith to be a pick nine and then all of a sudden he falls out or someone takes him. Now they're scrambling and this other guy that was not supposed to be there is going to be there. So another team, you know, takes now you're, you're scrambling and teams, I'll say, if you go back in these last five years and you really go through the draft, it'd be interesting to do a study on. And I looked at it, by the way, is how many of these guys are actually still in the NBA, right? How many guys make it to their second contract? More important, how many of these guys are rotational players? And I would argue to say, especially in the second round, it's probably like in each draft, two to three Guys that still exist for the last five years in the first round is probably seven or eight guys. So it tells you either a, the evaluation is a little bit off or it's darn hard to stay in this league. And the edge you need to kind of compete and stay in there, you got to be on a daily basis. [00:12:26] Speaker B: Yeah, that's why I see like teams training like five second round picks because it's like the chances unless you got a good like front office that's, that knows how to draft unless someone slips too. It's like very hard to, to, to nail it with, with the second round pick nowadays, huh? [00:12:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's. You know, one thing I took pride in is even as with this one particular company initially, which I felt was just very driven about, you know, lottery picks, this and that, I, I took pride in. Join the underdogs like Dylan Brooks, Dwight Powell at one point represented Jordan Clarkson. These are guys that people didn't really talk a lot about and they're guys that are now making 200 million, $300 million still playing in the league. And look at Jokic for grand, he won the second round, three time mvp. So to me it's like extremely important to be able to assess and evaluate talent and just don't base things off of what you read online. [00:13:21] Speaker B: So tell me when you're looking for, for a player or like scouting or maybe some qualities you look for like in terms of like evaluating a talent and maybe finding that hidden gem that people are not looking for. [00:13:34] Speaker A: Should I tell my secret? [00:13:35] Speaker B: Not even secret, but like in terms of like maybe like. Because sometimes people look at the personality of like whether this player, you know, like certain stuff that you can't really teach off the court, on the court maybe. I don't know. [00:13:48] Speaker A: I'll say. The biggest thing to me is finding the guys that have been through things, challenges, right, They've had their ups and downs. And if you go through like high school basketball, if a guy started the whole time, never came off the floor, played all the, every minute, then he went to aau, played all the minutes, never was benched, never had to go through any adversity, then all of a sudden you put this kid into the NBA and the first challenge they're going to see is like, man, you're just, you gotta get to the back of the bus, you know what I mean? Like there's other guys that are in front of you. So now they hit adversity and how do they react to that adversity? Because Every NBA player at some point, you know, majority of them are going to hit some adversity. And the guys you find that get out of the league are the ones that can't handle that adversity. But you take guys like Dylan Brooks, who's been through, you know, different programs, he got cut over here, they're going to cut him off to, you know, CIA bounce and all these different things he went through. He wasn't really highly recruited into college and he gets into Oregon last minute and then he has a successful career, you know, so he went through his ups and downs, so things weren't given to him. So when he goes to the NBA, he understands how to grind, you know. [00:14:54] Speaker B: So is there something you wish you knew before becoming an agent that you're like, damn, this. [00:14:59] Speaker A: This is how crazy people are. I think before coming in agent, some things you just, you live and learn every day, right? I think there's always things you learn on the fly and there's things you learn through experience. And I think, you know, you take Anthony Bennett, right? When he went number one in the draft, from a basketball perspective, I knew it wasn't a good decision. From a company's perspective, which they were pushing, like, oh, it's the number one pick. You gotta do it, you gotta do it. But I'm like, it doesn't make sense basketball wise. And I felt like Cleveland also was on a downward cause. That's when LeBron just left. So they didn't really have a good staff in place and everything. There's a lot of pressure on the guy coming in. Cause everyone's jobs are on the line and he wasn't healthy, you know what I mean? And they put him out there and I go back and I'm like, man, if it was me, I'd have made sure. Like, man, you like in the G League. I don't care what people have the stereotype about the G League at that point, right? I don't care, like, go get yourself in shape now. Go and play. So if there's things I could say if I go back in the past and learn now is you can't worry about what other people think and say what's embarrassing, not embarrassing. Do what's best for the client, whether he or she may not like it. You just gotta tell them what it is. [00:16:08] Speaker B: Any hidden stories from that Anthony Bennett going number one that you like, cherish or moments from, from, from that year? [00:16:14] Speaker A: Of course, it's always special when the first Canadian to be drafted and, and go number one in the draft. So it was. It was. It was exciting. But like I said, I just go back to like, you know, the way it was mishandled from an organization standpoint and. And they apologize to this day, but it's just. And. But he has his. His part to play in it and everybody collectively. But it was definitely a special moment. You know, you can never go back to do it as history and, you know, wish him and his family everything. Always the best. [00:16:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Was he your first client or like, who were your first few clients? [00:16:45] Speaker A: I think it was. So it was Anthony and then Rondy, Hollis, Jefferson, Tyler, Ennis, Thon. A bunch of guys are like kind of the first round guys going through. [00:16:59] Speaker B: Yeah. You've been in. How many years has it been now? I don't know. [00:17:04] Speaker A: I lost track. You know, once you get past like 10 or 12, you're like, I ain't even. [00:17:07] Speaker B: I'm a vet. [00:17:08] Speaker A: No, man. Yeah, it's just whatever. [00:17:10] Speaker B: People talk about it, but you've seen it. You've seen a lot of it, right? What makes a good agent, in your eyes? [00:17:15] Speaker A: I think a good agent is someone that, you know, obviously you care about the client, right? And whether it's someone that's in the G League, whether it's someone in Europe, whether it's someone in the NBA, you treat them all the same. And I'd almost argue to say, like, Jamal Murray's super talented, right? And you know, I love him to death, but he doesn't need your full duh, duh, you know, but you take a guy that's going to Europe or G League and struggling through their career, and you're trying to help them out, I think those guys need your attention more. And I think to make a great agent is you got to care from A to Z or Zed, whatever Americans say, right? But you can hear from A to Zed and treat everybody the same. And I think be. Be willing to fight for guys, and even when they may be wrong, which you hold them accountable, you still gotta fight and advocate for your guys. [00:18:03] Speaker B: And you said you managed over what, 20 plus clients? [00:18:05] Speaker A: How. [00:18:06] Speaker B: How is. I guess it's not just you two. You have a team of people. What's. What's it like managing 20 plus people and guessing on the phone all the time, you know, like, constant, like, answering calls like, what's the latest you've been up, like, or got a call that, like, hey, something's going on right now. [00:18:22] Speaker A: Well, I think managing guys, like, I mean, first of all, there's guys in Europe So there's European agents, they take, you know, a good portion of the guys too. And then you have your collective team that helps the guys. So it's not as like strenuous in that way. But as far as this, you're always on call, man. You know, I can't put my phone on do not disturb. Even though I'd love to do it. Other people around me have it on do not disturb. And I think it's amazing. And I'm like, I can't do that. Because I remember even times, there's times you can get calls and it's not even your client. It was like, like one time at 3:30 in the morning, you know, one of these guys, one of my clients, he's getting arrested. If he shows up at the airport, can you help out? I'm like, send my client. So I'm like, whatever, man. So you get on the phone, you call the pa, you call this call that wake people up, boom, you help the guy out. And I eventually became a client because I'm like, why don't you call your own agent? You know? But I think you just gotta always be on call, always be prepared. And, you know, I mean, I won't be as old as some of these other guys that are doing it for a thousand years. God bless your soul. Um, because it is draining and it takes a lot, but it's definitely rewarding. Because when you're able to tell a family, hey, you're signing a new deal and, and you can see it change someone's life, it's always like, that's the most gratifying. [00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So do you have an exit plan? You talking about, you know, you don't want to do this for, for forever. [00:19:32] Speaker A: Do you have like leaving tomorrow? I think it's like when it's the right time, you know? You know what I mean? But I mean, I'll always be around it and involved and you know, I'm not leaving any anytime soon right now. But, you know, but at some point when you feel like it's become a job, then I'll definitely leave, you know, right now I enjoy it. It's not necessarily a job. I love it. I love helping people, I love helping families. But the moment I feel like it becomes a burden in a job, then it's a time for me to do something different. [00:20:01] Speaker B: I'm the same. I'm like, once this reporting stuff gets kind of like I'm not enjoying the game of basketball, like, I gotta pivot, maybe hit you up, you know, and see what the agency lifestyle is. [00:20:09] Speaker A: But come on, if you take my spot, I'm good with that. [00:20:12] Speaker B: What's the most busiest time off season, the draft? What. What is like for you? Like, obviously it changes every. Every single year, but normally what is the most busiest time of the year for you? [00:20:25] Speaker A: Beginning of the year is busy because you got to travel and see guys in their new markets or the markets that they're in. So I say that's pretty busy because you're getting everyone adjusted, trade deadline and adapted. And then I would say trade deadline. And then I would say end of the season with playoffs, because if your guy's really rolling in there and it's like, you better be at every game, but, man, everybody's playing, so I gotta go here. Like. So sometimes you're like, all right, he didn't make the playoffs. Yes, one less team to go to. But I don't want to use. [00:20:49] Speaker B: I don't want to Utah. [00:20:50] Speaker A: But you know, it's, it's. I would say those are busy times of the playoffs. And then obviously free agency in the draft, I think there's really no. And then summerleep has its own stress. So I would say, honestly, you know, all year, and then, you know, maybe end of July, August, September, you're kind of in a good place and then it starts way back. [00:21:09] Speaker B: What's the trade deadline like for you? Do you like, sit in a quiet space like on trade deadline day when calls are about to be coming? Like, do you sit in your own office? Like, how do you kind of like manage your day for that? [00:21:20] Speaker A: Isolate yourself? I mean, just in case any. And you also want to make sure you're ahead of it because the worst thing to do is have a client find out he's being traded online, like through the television or whatever. Like, hey, so and so has been traded. Like what? And like, you didn't know. I'm like, you know, you don't want to be that person, right? So I think staying ahead of it, communicating with these teams steady now, anything can happen last minute. Like, it could be a guy that they didn't think was going to happen. And all of a sudden someone comes available, your guy gets thrown in. But as long as you stay on top of these GMs, and they respect you, they inform you and educate you, like, hey, this is what might be going down. Like, Dylan got traded this summer, right? Like, I was ahead of it. You know, I heard, you know, maybe a week before it's a possibility. And then obviously things went down and Low key. Was very happy because I'm like, man, you got traded to Phoenix. How terrible. [00:22:01] Speaker B: That's where you're at. [00:22:02] Speaker A: No question. Right. So we're excited about that. I mean, obviously he's done a great job at Houston. It was fun, and I thought he really helped their culture a lot, but I get it. They felt it was the need, the move they needed to make. And I also think, like, Phoenix is getting a gem, and I think we're gonna see our best version of Dillon Brooks in Phoenix. [00:22:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Have you had, like, a crazy trade deadline story or. But you mentioned too, like, of teams, like, how often does that happen where, like, a player might find out online that they betray. Especially with Shabs is like, top tier. Like, he's. I don't know how fast he gets his information, but what's that like in terms of, like, trying to inform your client? Have you ever dealt with like, oh, damn, a reporter might find this out first before and it gets out to social media? What's that like? [00:22:45] Speaker A: Hasn't happened to me. Knock on wood. But I know it's happened to several people. And, you know, like I said, I think it's our job to kind of stay informed, stay abreast, be talking to teams. Such as it's getting closer to trade online. Like, hey, is there any possibility. Heard some rumors about this and whatever the main case may be. And now if those GMs are respectful and they do it the right way, they'll educate you if. Or they'll inform you if they're not, then, you know, becomes a little bit shaky doing business with them again. [00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. For real? Any crazy. Crazy, like trade deadline or free agency stories that you're like, it's crazy. I'm a part of this that you're like, I can't, like, five years down. Like, you'll be like, laughing about this story? [00:23:24] Speaker A: No, I mean, I only laugh about. I mean, he's. Hate to use his name all the time, but Dylan. [00:23:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:28] Speaker A: When people are like, oh, he's going to China and he'll see him in China. Can we. [00:23:33] Speaker B: Can we talk about that? Because when he signed his new deal, you tweeted something I forgot. [00:23:37] Speaker A: What. [00:23:37] Speaker B: Could he tell you exactly what it was? [00:23:39] Speaker A: Well, I mean, they're saying he's going to China, so I just, you know, once you got the deal done is, you know, I just figured I might as well tweet the deal in Mandarin for them, which is Chinese. So I'd be like, I guess this is the only part of China he'll be seeing right now, you know, so it was just a little fun and games with them and just kind of like, you know, people just the general fan and they don't know. Right. So they just hear all these things. And in Memphis, I love Zach, he's a good gm, but I think they handled it poorly. And how they try to throw him under the bus for really, it was an organizational problem and now they fired the coach. Right. Like, so things they tried to pour on and put onto Dylan wasn't Dylan, and they tried to blame him. But I think at the end of the day, still is orientation. They got to do better. And the fans just ran with it, didn't understand it. And now that they come to full Fusion, they realize, man, actually Dylan is a winner and he was a big part of Memphis because they have not been the same since. [00:24:30] Speaker B: Yeah, because I think there's a big, like, gap in like the perception of Dylan from like some of the Fans, like the LeBron fans of the world, like, of obviously because they want to head to head a lot. But then, like, I feel like from a Canadian perspective and like I. From my perspective too, like, I speak to a lot of players coming up and they're like, Dylan is a mentor. Dylan takes his time to help us out. Dylan this, Dylan that. You know, maybe what's the side that Dylan, that you obviously work with him closely and that people don't get to see and that you cherish maybe he's. [00:25:02] Speaker A: A good dude, man. He's just a really big community guy. Donates a lot to kids. I think he's stuff for Henry Carr. He does stuff out in Arizona. He's just a really big give back kind of guy. Even in Houston, he's done a bunch of like turkey drives. He gave away things during Christmas time. He's got one of the biggest hearts as far as giving out to the community. And he's one of those guys, you know, if you're a Hooper, you understand this. When I say this is like he's one of those guys, you hate to play against him, but you love when he's your teammate. He's one of your best veterans. He's always in the, you know, he works hard. He's. His work ethic is unbelievable. He wants to win, doesn't care about his own personal stats. So when you have guys like that, you know, they bring a culture with them. And I think that's what. When you look at Phoenix Suns, I think they're lacking with some toughness. So that's why he's there. Yeah, he should be a wrestler, too. Low key. [00:25:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:48] Speaker A: That's another Dennis Rodman we can see. [00:25:51] Speaker B: Set it up soon, man. Wwe, Jamal Murray. I feel like his rise has been fun to see. What was that like, being part of, like, behind the scenes to him winning a championship and that whole journey? Because you were. You were there from the start. What was it like seeing that man? [00:26:06] Speaker A: I think, you know, just seeing his journey. I mean, when he first, you know, I had the honor and privilege of, like, recruiting him for aau, you know what I mean? [00:26:12] Speaker B: What was that like? Tell me that story. [00:26:14] Speaker A: Well, Roger's dad will deny this, but, you know, first of all, it was a guy, Chris Chun, that told me about Jamahl, and I was kind of coaching in that age group, and he's like, this kid, man, he's amazing. I'm like, man, I ain't see no kid in this age group that's better than the guys we had. He's like, nah, I'm telling you, this plays up. I'm like, all right, bet, bet. So I saw him a second time. He mentioned, hey, man, I'm telling you. What, sorry, let me check this guy out. And he comes in the gym and I'm like, holy crap, this dude is nice still. So I made a little bet with his pops. Like, listen, man, we gonna play some one on one if I beat you, because this point is between us and Grassroots. I beat you, he plays with us. If you beat me, then whatever. So out of respect, I let him beat me because I didn't want to, like, you know, I mean, it's his dad. And then he's gonna go in his feelings and whatever. So I let him win. And he'll argue with that. I let him win. But long story short, it became history where he became part of our team. And then the first tournament we brought him out to. And by the way, I told the guys on our team, like, listen, I know this halfway through the season, but he's starting, you're coming off the bench. But anyway, that's a whole other story. So we go to Jane and Finch tournament, which we just came from now, the Jayna Finch, but it's one of the first tournaments he played in. And, you know, that environment's crazy. Like, there's a lot of, like, different dudes. It's live. And for a guy coming from Kitchener to come into that gym and he just gave buckets. I mean, one dude fell into the crowd. He's going behind his back off the glass. I'm like, man, he's built for this, man. And then to go to the Finns tournament, do that. And Chippy Chippy, who runs the Finnish tournament, we're very proud of this. You have to go to the Finns tournament to make the NBA according to him. So I would argue, say he's probably right with that. But Jamal, it was fun to see his development there. And then to answer your question about the championship and following him, it was amazing, man. I just thought it was like you just knew something special was happening. And, you know, like I told you, when the guys want you to come to the game, we got locked in like every game from the Western Conference finals to the championship, like every single game you're at. And just to watch the, you know, I guess the just how hard it is, you know, because people think it's easy to win a championship, but when you get to game four or five, you're in the finals, guys are mentally drained and they're like, man, you know, as much as I want to win this, I'm tired, man. I just want to check out. So I actually had like Monty Williams and text him because they just went through it the year before with the Phoenix Suns. And I said, monty, send him a text and just kind of encourage him. He goes, man, I don't mind doing that. And Monty was, you know, coach, Monty was very cool and sending a text like, hey man, just keep your mental strong. You're almost there. And obviously having his dad there and his mom and his dad is mentally strong guy. So I think it's just teaching Jamal how to fight through those things and then to watch them win, it was, I mean, again, another moment in history you can never replace. And I look at friggin Lou and Shea. Super cool. [00:28:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's crazy just to see like the guys winning it. Four guys in the finals, all making an impact. For you, what's been like your proudest moment, like as an agent. [00:29:05] Speaker A: Proudest moment as an agent. Honestly, man, I think there's several moments, like I said, I think when you can call a family and call a player and say, hey man, you're about to get one hundred and something million dollars or you're signing for fifty million or twenty million and you know, that's life changing money. I think those are the best calls and the best moments. I mean, the draft is not as. It's cool. Hey, you're getting picked 20. Oh my God. Everyone's excited, but I realize it's like short term, but when you're able to get these guys everlasting long term money or whatever it may be. It's exciting. [00:29:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Because no one really remembers if you want like 20 something, really. But you mentioned the Jaden Finch Classic. You're a guy that, I feel like you always make an emphasis to come back and be part of that tournament. Can you just tell me, tell me why it's so important for you? [00:29:53] Speaker A: I think what gets lost in transition or whatever with all this stuff in basketball and, you know, even guys that make the league and whatever else. And I'm. And I'm in by me, by no means am I that guy, you know what I mean? But I feel it's important to give back to your community. I think you can't just leave. And some of these guys, it's frustrating, I'll be honest with you. And some of these guys in the league that don't come back, give back. Like, I don't have a lot, but I still find time to give back, whether it's your time, whether it's financially and to see guys that are making this ungodly type of money, you know what I mean? And you can't find the time back to give back to this community, to help out, to be present. And I think coming back to the Jane and Finch, and especially with some of these kids that are coming in from Arizona that go to school out there, I think it's important they don't get a chance to play in front of their family and friends. And I think if that's a little bit of bringing them down here to be in front of those little. You know, I was once those little kids that are watching older guys play and they're now having an opportunity to watch a Miles Sadler play. And Miles, you know, lone to death he was during his tournament, he's like, I'm gonna play two games and that's it. So he came the next day. He didn't have his, like, he didn't have his uniform on. Like, what are you doing? He's like, oh, no, I don't want to play. Like, you know, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, bro, we're not doing that. Like, there's little so and so over here. So they came here to watch you play. They don't get a chance to see you play. You have a responsibility. You think I want to be here on my break when I could be chilling out on some beach and cooling out? But no, I'm going to be here these four or five days. Usually it's in a hot Gym. [00:31:23] Speaker B: Yeah, Hot. [00:31:24] Speaker A: Hot with crazy people that, you know. I love the environment, by the way. You know what I mean? Everyone, a little fight here and there, little arguing. I love it. [00:31:30] Speaker B: But that's what makes it special, 100%. [00:31:32] Speaker A: Like, you have a responsibility. Miles and Paul and everyone else that's playing this. Because guys before you played and you used to watch them, so how dare you? And to his credit, he was like, you're right. Went quick to the car, put on his shoes, suited up and bald. You know what I mean? But we have a responsibility. When we make it to a certain point, we need to come back and give back. We're not bigger than what's going on. And remember, we were once there. [00:31:53] Speaker B: Yeah, it's cool, because I saw Jamal Murray's coaching his AAU team, helping support. Dylan Brooks was out there. Lennon Miller was out there getting guys. Eugene, I saw him out there. Like a lot of guys, man, it's so cool just to see, like, it's become like a. Like, the spot for guys to come back. And I think a lot of, like, I hear a lot of stories, like, this was my favorite tournament, you know, So a lot of love watching the next generation of guys. [00:32:14] Speaker A: It's kind of hood, you know? You know what I mean? You get to get up and down, fans are running around, you dunk on the floor. They're like, oh, what the heck? You know, But. And some people are probably a little afraid or intimidated by that. To me, that's what we grew up on. So it's what real hoop in basketball. And I always tell the kids, too, it's an escape from the pressure of, like, AU and the college coach. And, you know, everyone's got to be so robotic. And whatever's a moment where you could be like, yo, do your thing, you know, and you want to talk a little trash. The refs are pretty lenient, you know what I mean? So it's. And people don't ask about why the NBA is boring, because trash talking sucks. You know what I mean? Like, when a guy shoots a three, if he does whatever, they're like, oh, technical foul. Why? Like, this is what made the game entertaining, you know? See, when Dylan was talking crazy LeBron, like, it made more people tune in because that was fun. Now we're going to a place where it's so soft and, you know, in hockey, people can talk and trash talk all they want and fight totally acceptable basketball. They're hooligans and what? You know, don't get me started on this. [00:33:09] Speaker B: No, because it's crazy because in the championship game I was watching, it was like two fights. The guy got ejected. I was like. But also what's so cool about it too is like, you see, like, for those guys, they're probably seeing like Dylan Brooks and probably seeing people they haven't seen in years, right? Because obviously they're busy schedules. But you come back to this tournament, the whole community's coming out and they know they're going to see these guys, you know? [00:33:28] Speaker A: Correct. [00:33:29] Speaker B: But for you just going back into like the life of an age and like the day to day, how much is like your job kind of like negotiating contracts and like just managing players and what's that in between? And do you feel like you're more of like a managing, like, players? [00:33:47] Speaker A: It's like when you're a teacher, right. I think you say you wear a lot of hats, right. You're a counselor, you're a mentor, you're, you know, sometimes you're a parent, you know, you. Whatever it may be. And I think the same thing goes for an agent. I think you're not just an agent dealing with contracts. You're dealing with different personalities. You're dealing with life, you're dealing with mentoring them, you're dealing with educating them. So there's so many hats that you wear. And I think as an, you know, especially as the times go on with this nil space and new times, like, it's just a different time in sports as a whole. So an agent, what it used to be is totally different what it is today. [00:34:17] Speaker B: Yeah. You mentioned nil how has that impacted you and the job? And I'm guessing recruitment starts early now, huh? [00:34:26] Speaker A: I mean, I think you've always been recruiting early. And for me, it's. It's an easy transition because I'm always involved in grassroots basketball. But I would say for a lot of agents, it's different. And agencies now you're looking at ninth graders are being signed to an nil deal. I'm like, really? What does that mean in reality check to all you ninth graders out there? Like, I don't know what deal someone says they're going to get you. It's not true. You know, like, it's. It's the nil to me in the space is about building your brand and building who you are and preparing you. So when you get to that level where deals are coming in, because how are you going to make more money from deals and marketing than someone in the NBA who's not even making a deal? Because only really truly probably 10 or 15% of NBA players actually get real marketing deals. Everyone else is like okay, you're going to sign autographs here, do this and that's a five thousand dollar deal. But real deals, like you're with an airline, you're with a drink company, whatever it may be. It's very, very challenging, I would say. But so I would say this whole nil space has definitely changed a lot. You're recruiting earlier, but I also feel like people need to understand what it is. [00:35:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and I. What are your thoughts like on. I've seen some people say there should be contracts because everyone's getting paid millions of dollars. Some players getting paid like millions to come off the bench. Like what are your thoughts on just like should it be regulated? Like what are your thoughts on this? [00:35:40] Speaker A: And there is, there is contracts. I think there's nil contracts that they sign. Right. And I think if you look at like the, you know, Trump made this whole thing now where the collective and the collective is like the third party that used to now come in and there's no real limitations or governing rules against it. Like just whatever someone to pay someone to pay them. Now with the whole kind of governing of the revenue share which come from the ncaa, you'll see a lot more the money will come down, you know what I mean? And a lot more reasonable things will be done. And said it now I really believe kids need to be paid, but there needs to be some kind of structure, like a balance. [00:36:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that's kind of. When I talk to people I think a more of a balance of structure to. To certain things. And do you feel like that's changed like how guys enter the NBA and like what they expect and the lifestyle or whatever it is obviously still early. [00:36:29] Speaker A: You know, I think the NL changes. Kids wanted to rush off, right. And jump into this NBA world and not understanding like the NBA's come challenging. Right. I think everything's taking an effect. So the NBA has a bunch of guys that are super talented that should be in the NBA, that are not in the NBA anymore. They're starting to go out to Europe. Then you go down. There's guys that should, you know, let's say in college that you know, they go on these transfer portals. So like even the levels in college are going down and like high school kids that used to be valued and being recruited, they're not being recruited anymore unless you're like a top 5,000 kid. It's so hard getting a scholarship. Right. Because they rather say to you and These coach will tell you now we're going to the portal. We'd rather grab a kid that's already played. Let's say it's a high major school, a mid major. I'd rather grab a kid that played low Division 1 average, 20 something, whatever. He's more older, he's ready to go. Then let me go grab a high school kid that's never played college. So everything's created a domino effect in the nil. I think what it does at least is it helps kids to understand I can make probably be taken back. They do like make a lot more money doing this than running off to the NBA and possibly not getting drafted on a two way whatever it may be. [00:37:36] Speaker B: How do you like talk to your, to your guys about like whether they should enter the draft and go back to school. Like what's that balance? And obviously we talked about nil, right? Like now second round picks are. I seen some guys that were projected late first round picks go back to school, you know like because they weren't guaranteed like a promise in the first round. Like what's that balance? Now teams are like the value of a second round pick is not that high because everyone's going back to school. Like what do you, how do you balance that when you're talking to your guys? [00:38:02] Speaker A: Information. I think you gotta as like I said as an agent our job is to get the best information and really you know, know what the kid, you know, hey, you're gonna be drafted here or not get the real information. Not maybe, possibly. And you know I'm benefited being with our agency. We're now with Clutch is like obviously we represent a lot of GMs and coach so you get the real time information. So I think it's very, very important the more information and being accurate with it than a kid can make and a family make an informed decision. So if you know you're going to be a second round pick but I can go back to college and make a million, $2 million. Where are you rushing to? Right? Unless you're older and you realize the following year you may drop. But if you can improve your stock then why not do it while you're getting paid more money than being a two way guy or whatever the case would be. So every case is different, every situation is different. But the biggest thing, all it comes down to is information nature. [00:38:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Thoughts on the transfer portal. A thousand kids in it. Like it's like what are your thoughts on that? Is it there's no, no one's staying. No More. [00:38:56] Speaker A: I mean, compared to the NBA guys that go to the draft and don't get drafted. Right. Like, it's the same as the transfer portal. Guys are going in there, they're jumping in, like, I'm gonna go transfer. Where are you going? [00:39:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:05] Speaker A: Do you know what you're doing? Where you gonna go next? Like, have a plan. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:08] Speaker A: So I think it's very important to have the right information. Have a plan and then execute whatever you're gonna execute. But make sure you're accurate in what you're doing, or you'll be sitting at 1000 plus in the portal or going to division towards you go. [00:39:20] Speaker B: You mentioned you joined forces with Clutch and that was. That was a power move. Tell me about the decision behind that and how it came about. [00:39:27] Speaker A: Well, I've known Rich forever. Even first before Tristan and Corey went in the draft. And actually when I first got in the business, he was one of the first agents I was going to work with him and another guy, Andy Miller, and fast forward, you know, years later, you know, both guys are together and they're like, mike, man, we'd love for you to come in, join forces, work with us. Da, da da. So, you know, I merged in and worked with them and working with them and you know, I would say it's a power move from the standpoint of they have their skill sets, I have my skill sets. And just being able to work together and tap into some of those resources as well. It's been good. [00:40:04] Speaker B: Yeah. How long has it been now? [00:40:07] Speaker A: It's over a year now. [00:40:08] Speaker B: Over a year now. And in terms of I'm seeing guys like Paul Tupald just, I think signed the nil stuff. What's it like to just what your thoughts on like, the next wave of talent, those guys coming up. And I'm guessing you're close to a lot of those guys too, and getting them to just understanding the world of like, and the business of the NBA and all that kind of stuff before they. They get to that point eventually. [00:40:33] Speaker A: I feel like, you know, whether it's Paul and some of these other guys, like, you know, it's going to be a hard track. You know, like I told you, like, college has changed the NBA's change. So your job is to prepare them mentally and then also physically to be ready for these moments. I think the biggest thing basketball take care of itself. But once the mind matches the talent, you know, you're unstoppable. Right? So I think it's just really, again, you hear me harp on the word Information and educating. And the more someone knows and the better they understand, the better prepared they'll be, no matter what's thrown at them. So I think with the talent level coming out of Canada, which you see all these names coming up, you know, from Paul and I guess the kid, Isaiah Hamilton, all these different kids, there's just tons of talent. And I think what killed us a little bit was Covid. Is it like, a class that kind of struggled a little bit? [00:41:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Because I'm wondering now we're back, I'm wondering, like, for this next draft class. Like, I don't know if there's a name that people are looking at for. For this upcoming year, because Nate George. [00:41:28] Speaker A: He's a killer. [00:41:28] Speaker B: Hey. I was talking to him to get on. On the podcast. Eventually I was chatting with him. He's headed to Syracuse. I feel like one of the best pastors college basketball. I think almost every assist. Yeah, the accnss so excited to watch him. [00:41:41] Speaker A: Talented. He must be like his uncle. [00:41:44] Speaker B: So you got the passage from you 100? [00:41:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:46] Speaker B: Okay. [00:41:47] Speaker A: I wanted to pass, though. But, yeah. [00:41:50] Speaker B: For you, like, as an agent, I feel like there's a perception, like, for people that don't know the world of what it's like. What do you think is the biggest, like, misconception, people as an agent? Yeah. Or like, on the outside, people don't. [00:42:01] Speaker A: Oh, man. I would say the biggest misconception is everyone thinks they can be an agent and they don't understand the grind. They don't know the struggle. They think it's easy. I mean, I had a gentleman come the other day, which I was really super cool, by the way. And he's like, man, you're an inspiration, man. And I wrote my test, and, you know, I think I'm one of the youngest guys ever to do this, which is cool, and I'm proud of him. But at the same time, like my brother, it's not no joke, man. You know, if you don't have a pipeline or some kind of relationship, because as smart as someone could be, as great as an agent, you may think you are from a contractual standpoint, you can't write a contract for a player you don't have, you know, So I think if you don't have a pipeline of players or some kind of connection is a very challenging industry to get into. And then the other part is, for all these guys that are coming in and, you know, whether they support or hate on you, whatever it is, they don't understand the grind. And the grind is once you get a player and let's make this up. By the way, let's say player X is in 10th grade, superstar. You got to follow that kid through 10th, 11th, 12th. So three years, right? Things you gotta go to college. Things gotta go well in college. So now you gotta make it in college, right? So you gotta hoop. So now you're an agent, right? And you represent this kid. It's been three years, now you're in college, it might be two years, one year, who knows? But let's be on the side of this is a one and done. So now it's four years, you still haven't made a dime, but you're grinding. Now the guy makes the mba. You don't really charge in the first contract because there's nothing to really charge, right? So you charge, but it's like very minimal, right? So now you're this guy for four more years before he gets to his second guy. So now you're talking about eight years of your life before you really see real money, right? In regards to a guy making a contract, now you charge, whatever. So when I went through that grind and I left teaching and people understand, like I left a lot of money on the table and I sacrificed, I did what I need to do and it wasn't easy. But when you're called to do something and God calls you do it, you may understand at the time, but you do it. And then when you finally get to that point of like, oh, the first, you know, real deal, you know, like I said, like Dwight Powell's like my first real, like, oh, shoot, this is crazy. And it's like, but you got to backdate all the stuff you already spent, you know what I mean? And the sacrifice. But, you know, so I just think the lack of understanding the grind and then when you get there, you know, it's very, you know, to have a Jamal Murray, you know, I was very blessed, you know what I mean? But you're not going to have a lot of Jamal Murray. It's a lot of Shays and different things. So as long as you understand the sacrifice it takes to be an agent and the time it goes in there. So when I see a 45 year old or 40 something year old man saying they want to become an agent, I'm like, good luck with that, good luck with that. Be 60, make a dollar, but go ahead. [00:44:47] Speaker B: How often do people reach out to you and be like, I want to do this. Oh God, what's the sick? [00:44:51] Speaker A: All the time. [00:44:51] Speaker B: All the time, all the time. [00:44:52] Speaker A: Like, I Think I want to be an agent. I'm like. But I'm like, just understand. You try to educate, but you also don't want to be guy to kill someone's dreams. Or you sound like you're hating, or you sound like, I just don't want you to do what I'm doing. And it's like, no, no, I'm trying to save you a journey. And there's so many different paths in this industry of basketball. Like, look what you're doing and you guys are doing here. There's so many different ways to be part of this thing and to benefit, you know, I mean, first you do it for the love or you won't succeed. And if you love it and you do it, and no matter what it is, if you're an analytics guy, if you like to, you know, do the podcast thing or whatever it may be, there's different lanes, but you got to find your strength and what helps you and what you want to do and that you love it. [00:45:32] Speaker B: I think, like, the biggest misconception. You said it took eight years to actually get, like some money. Yeah, like, it's. That's crazy because I think that people don't know. People think, like the first paycheck you're making money off of, you're not really. [00:45:43] Speaker A: Talking money, you know, I mean, you're not like, they may pay you a salary back then, like 75,000, you know, like, whatever it is, right. And you're like, man, I'm making more as a teacher. You know? And then it's like, as you're going through it, you're going through it again. If I was doing it for the money, I would have stopped a long time. I would never gotten into the thing. But as you're doing it, and again, like I said, if your heart's in the right place, you're doing it. Everything works itself out. And, you know, like I said, I don't take it for granted. I've been very blessed. The Lord has blessed me. But in turn, I feel like my blessing, I turned and turned around and bless other people. [00:46:14] Speaker B: Can you just walk through the process to becoming an official agent? And like some people say you gotta go to law school. Like, do you have to go to law school for this? Like, what's. You gotta do a written test and. [00:46:24] Speaker A: But you're. [00:46:24] Speaker B: From what I'm gauging from you, it's like, it's just like the relationship is probably like having relationships and like knowing people being able to, like, network, that kind of stuff is More important than, like, being able to be like, yeah, I can get you a contract. And like this. Because anybody can really do that after you learn it, right? [00:46:39] Speaker A: Yeah. You don't need a law degree. And you gotta have a degree. And then I think, like you said, and you hit the nail on the head, it's more your net work is your net worth. You know, that thing's kind of cliche, but it's the reality. If you don't know anybody, you have no pipeline or connection. You'll die in this business real quick. And I know there's many. Like I said, there's many guys that have tried it even here. And then they hit their harsh reality. They're like, man, this thing is an old. And I'm like, I told you. And they'll walk around optically like they're doing great. They got all these clients. And in reality is like, I know down inside. Like, man, I know you ain't got nothing going on, and I'm not hating on it. It's just like, you didn't understand. And instead of even coming more to get educated, because I'm always open door, man. I mean, I'll talk to anybody who wants to talk about whatever. I may be busy or whatever. You don't mean it, but I'm always willing to share. And I mean, I don't know everything, but I know quite a bit in regards to this industry and just basketball. So I'm always open and willing to. [00:47:37] Speaker B: Share, share the ups and the downs. What was the exam like? People talk about that because it's like open book. So it's not that hard, actually. [00:47:45] Speaker A: Anyone that feels I'm just joking off, it's open book, and I think it's pretty straightforward, you know, I mean, I didn't have to do it when I was coming because I was before that time. But it's open book and. And it's straightforward. I mean, saying, just talking about the cap and different things. You got to know, you know, your job as an agent is to know the information. So you're equipped. So when you're doing and dealing with contracts, you're equipped to handle it. [00:48:02] Speaker B: Yeah. What's like seeing now, like we mentioned, like, guys pop out, like in Canada, a lot of guys not explore and become an agent. What's that like to see and like, I feel like you kind of like sparked a movement, right? In a way. [00:48:13] Speaker A: Like I said, I think it's great because it's inspiring for other people. But know what you're getting into. Don't Just jump in and be like, I'm an agent now and it's been 10 years or five years and you don't have a client, so what's the point of being an agent, you know? So my thing is, don't just say, because you're also devaluing what the industry is. Just make sure you know what you're doing. And there's different aspects of it. What gets me, and maybe I shouldn't tell him this, but I'm gonna tell him this because I'm older now and I just don't care, right? But what gets me is like, everyone's chasing this NBA thing and I'll give a guy credit, you know, who's a smart dude, Matt Slam. And I mentioned his name earlier because Matt Slan's in this European niche. Yeah. And he's killing it, right? He was killing at that point and that time. And it's like if you start doing the math on European guys and you start doing that whole, you know, like that and there's way more European players. 450 MB against, right? There's way more. And they have these two ways, right? But even a two way guy, let's say for example, a two way guy makes 585,000, whatever is right. You can only charge 2%. So you're making $10,000 on a two way guy. You send a guy to China or Europe, whatever, right? Let's say a guy is making a million dollars and let's say you. It's 10% is what it is, right? It's $100,000. But you're spending with a, you know, Chinese age or whatever it may be. So it's $50,000. Like do the math. Like what you're chasing a small thing here when you really should be focused on a bigger thing over you, in my opinion. I could tell them that because Matt's got it right. [00:49:41] Speaker B: You can give us credit. [00:49:44] Speaker A: I'm just kidding. [00:49:44] Speaker B: How do you like measure like success personally in this industry? [00:49:51] Speaker A: Good question. I think for me, success in this industry is earning the respect of your peers. And where people are afraid. When you walk in a room, people are intimidating. When you're recruiting a kid, they're recruiting and that's, you know, that's the best feeling, 100%. And when you look online, you know, all due respect, and you see like, not that I look, people tell me this, right? But someone's like, oh, you know, you're ranked 14th as ages in the world. I'm like, that's pretty cool. You know, but I think once you've earned the respect of people that don't want to respect you, I believe you've done what you need to do. They can't. They can hate, but they can't take away what results show. [00:50:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Have you had a moment where you're like, you knew your player was about to blow up and you're like, everyone's about to find out. [00:50:32] Speaker A: Always, man. That's what I do. That's what I do. I think I told you with the underdogs and whatever else, but even as far as, like, development and whatever else, I feel like that's something that's become part of who I am and what I do. And I think there's no better or greater satisfaction than seeing guys that no one talked about and now they have no other choice but to talk. Because now they're living your story too. Right. You live through them, and they're living your journey as well. [00:50:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So I was gonna ask. What's your favorite part? Just about being an agent. [00:51:06] Speaker A: Favorite part? I used to say, probably, like, it's going to the games, but I hate the games. [00:51:13] Speaker B: The games kind of get, like, if. [00:51:14] Speaker A: They'Re bad teams, playoffs is more exciting. I like watching college better. [00:51:18] Speaker B: I. I'll be honest, I probably watch more college now. Especially the Canadian guys. They're like. I find it more enjoyable because also just tracking the. Watching the development, seeing who's going to be the next guy, that kind of stuff. I enjoy that. Yeah. [00:51:29] Speaker A: I think those are more 10. But I'd say the best part of being an agent, for me, I guess it's just like I said, I think it just goes back to just being able to be that person that's God used to help a family move up in life or change their life. And it could be anything from Europe to whatever, because, you know, Melvin Eldrins made a killing. You know, they had a twist. Kyle Alexander's made a killing. Daishaw Pierce made a killing. They didn't make the NBA, but they're making more money than guys that have made the NBA. You take my word on that. They don't pay for house, they don't pay for car. They don't pay for this. And they take all that money. It's tax free. They bank it, you know, And I look at guys that played the NBA for four years, five years, they say they made all this money. They're more broke than this guy. [00:52:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I was. I saw Melvin yesterday. Man, he looked like stunt man. [00:52:13] Speaker A: Yeah, man, he's still Playing. [00:52:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:15] Speaker A: It's just crazy. I think Melvin playing for. I coached him way back and since seventh grade, and I feel the guy's been playing for 500 years. [00:52:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:21] Speaker A: I won't. I won't age myself, but you get. I'm 21. [00:52:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Melvin, staple can of basketball. I want to talk to you about Canada, basketball in general. Just like a lot of questions I feel like I have. What are your thoughts on just like the state of basketball in Canada right now? Are we in a good place, a bad place? All right. Place. What do you feel like we are in, basketball wise, in this country? [00:52:45] Speaker A: Now you're talking about Canada basketball. Canada basketball. Are you talking about basketball in Canada? [00:52:49] Speaker B: Let's talk about both. [00:52:50] Speaker A: I think basketball in Canada is in a great place. I think we have a lot of talent. I think we have a lot of great coaches. We got a lot of great mentors that are on the ground developing these guys. And I would argue to say, like, Canada is probably one of the best place in the world as far as coaches go and development by far. I think we do an amazing job. Canada basketball. I think we're. There's good moments and then there's bad moments. I think we're underachieving and I'm a hard critic from the standpoint of, like, we should have already been in the Olympics before we lost to Venezuela. Why we lose, how we lose in Venezuela, other than the planning sometimes. Right. And even though you may say things, they don't want to listen to you because you're Mike, you don't know anything. I guess I don't know anything about basketball. Right. And when you recommend to them, like, why are we going two months prior to an event, play here, play there, play there, by the time they get to the event, we're tired, and then we're playing teams that we may potentially play in the finals. Right. So that year we lost to Venezuela in that finals. We played them earlier, we whooped them by 20. But by time they get to know you better. Now you're playing in their home, you know, whatever. You're playing in their home country. It was. And now you play them. Now we lose a game that we should have won, you know, and that should have been our first experience with Andrew Wiggins. And all these guys should have got their first taste of the Olympics that following year. And now we're getting used to it, you know, so then this one that we just lost, we know what to expect. We need to expect. So now even this one here, what. [00:54:23] Speaker B: Are your thoughts yeah, on the Olympics run. Yeah. [00:54:25] Speaker A: Really terrible, terrible, man. I mean, everyone can celebrate all they want. And even when, I mean, even when we won that bronze in the World cup, like historic history. Oh, my God. Yeah. But we should have beat. Who do we lose to? Why we even lose outside of the US who should we really lose to? Right? And we go into this championship and we lose to France. And no disrespect to France, great team, their whole town, but why are we playing France beforehand? [00:54:48] Speaker B: That's a good point. [00:54:49] Speaker A: Why are we playing the home country knowing you're eventually going to run into them at some point now they get familiar with you. I mean, I would actually throw the game. I wouldn't have beat them. By the way, when you played them the first time, throw the game. This is basketball one on one. You don't want to show them what it is. Then when you play them the next time you're geared up, you're amped up to be like, hey, man, these guys beat us. You can motivate your guys, they're inspired. But we play them, we lose. And I think it's a huge disappointment for Canada. We can celebrate all we want, but if you look at our talent pool compared to theirs, we are underachievers. And anyways, don't get me started. [00:55:19] Speaker B: No, I got a lot of questions still. Gordy Herbert, new head coach, what are your thoughts on him? And, and the higher. And just. Yeah, and then Gordy Fernandez also, he departed. I heard obviously mixed stuff about like he wanted to depart, but also was kind of like a mutual. [00:55:34] Speaker A: Yeah, he was a scapegoat. I think Gordy was not Gordy when Handy was more like, know we try to experiment with something and, and what I don't get is when the upper management in Canada basketball is experimenting with our future and things that. And the reason it bothers me is because you're part of the ground when this thing was happening, right? You're in the ground with the Dylan Brooks to Jamal Murray in the gym with like other guys. Whether it's sba, Scarborough Blues, whether it's Branson warriors, whether whoever it is, you're in the ground, you're developing these guys, you're developing these guys and then you're doing AAU with these guys. And remember, we're a little different AU because we're year round, right? And these guys get to a certain point, then Canada basketball jumps in, like, we know everything. Let us not talk to the community anymore. We don't need your advice and input. Biggest mistake you make. Because now these guys go. And you're not listening to our advice we're giving. You're not leaning on what we're telling you. This player is a certain level, or this one could do this and that. And then obviously, we go down and we're not successful where we need to be, right? And I think it's a program or structure problem program or there's a. There's a. There's a. How would you say? There's a. There's an issue with how things. Systemic and how it's run. That's a problem with our basketball Canada right now. [00:56:51] Speaker B: I had Bartlett on the podcast a few weeks back. I'm not sure if you listen to that. She listen to. It's a good listen. And I asked him, I'm like, what are your thoughts? I feel like from what I hear from the grassroots scene, there's a divide, there's a. A gap, or there's like this. I don't know. Like, there's a. The grassroots feel kind of disconnected from Canada basketball in a way. And he was saying, obviously, I'll give him credit, because he was saying, we want. We want to, like, bring that more together and hear people out. Why do you think there's a disconnect? [00:57:17] Speaker A: Sorry, I meant to go back to my point about Gordy and these guys is like, we had Jay Triano. He's a community guy. He knew the guys. He had a connection with them. We gave up on too early. He should have been our coach. Then you have other guys like Rory Rana, who's had a successful run, whether it's the youth side of it, but we're going outside to grab a guy from Spain. No disrespect to him, but he doesn't know our guys, right? He doesn't know Jamal Murray. He doesn't know how to get Jamal because Jamal did not play the way Jamal could have played. He was injured, banged up. But the way you also try to implement him back in, you didn't do a great job with it. So I think if you had a guy like Jay Triano, Roy Rana, we would have gotten a better version of Jamal during that time. And what they didn't understand is they almost tried to hurt the kid's career, because now people are like, oh, it's Jamal. The same Jamal, you know, when he started the NBA. And you go back and the guy kills back. Oh, never mind. Jamal's still here. And it's like, we do a poor job. And now Gordy, I like him because he's been around us. He knows a lot of our Canadian guys, and he's actually a really good coach. So I don't mind that hire, but I also feel like Roy, Rana, Jaytriano, these are guys that should have been in place from time to. [00:58:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I was. After the Olympic run, I was kind of, like, afraid in a way that I'm like, for Jamal, because obviously he was in a contract year. You can obviously speak to this more, but I was like, this, like, situation, this playing like, this could have damaged. Like, obviously it didn't end up right. He makes up max contract. We don't have to worry about that. But were you afraid of that? Like, of that potentially, like, impacting, like, his earnings? And, like, what happened? Like, obviously you said people looking like, is this the same Jamal? But then a few months later, it's like, people are like, what were you talking about? [00:58:52] Speaker A: Of course, Good thing. He's a great agent, you know? But I felt like even the team was using that as leverage to, like, not necessarily want to give the max at the moment. And this is where I get mad and frustrating that, you know, And I'm very outspoken. If you ask anyone, Canada, basketball, this world, I don't care. I'm gonna speak my mind, and you can take it personal if you want, or you can listen and take bits and pieces and try to utilize. [00:59:16] Speaker B: I think people, like, need this on this conversation, though. [00:59:19] Speaker A: But. But it did. It hurt just from. But again, Jamal's Jamal, We. You know, we did. We need to do, and he got what he needed. Yeah. But I feel like going forward, the way they treat people, and I say they, as in Canada basketball, they have to be very careful. And especially agents like myself and other agents can be very hesitant. And. Because, remember, not everyone was jumping to go play Canada basketball, right? A lot of guys were like, I don't want to do. I don't feel. And it's different times, right? Like, our guys weren't used to playing in the NBA. Then in your off season, like, Jamal ran that home run is like, hey, by the way, come play. In his World cup, he just played all the way to June. He's tired, you know? And people will say, well, guys, in the U.S. u.S. Has a larger pool to draw from, you know? And it's always an honor to be kind of selected out of that, because every year, Jamal's gonna be picked until he's done playing basketball. Every year, Dylan's gonna be picked. Every year in the US it's different guys. So when you get that Call. Even though you might be tired, you're like, man, I may never get this chance again. So they're going to jump at the moment, you know? So I just think we got to understand, don't compare ourselves to the US we are who we are. And I believe the moment we eliminate some of the political things and the moment we get the right coach, and hopefully Coach Gordy's the guy to do it. And I think Mike Barlett is doing his best he can, but I think he needs to understand what the community's outcry is about. Certain things that are there that need to be changed, and it's no knock on that person. It's just. You just shouldn't be doing it, you know? But I think once we start changing a few of those things, then our players will buy more in and don't use bully tactics with our guys. Like, if you're not here, not playing, Andrew, if you don't do this, you're not, like, it's not the way to get across to our guys. You know, there's a way to communicate. [01:00:56] Speaker B: Yeah. How do players feel about that? [01:00:58] Speaker A: They don't like it. Nobody likes to be told, like, if you don't do this, like, all right, cool. Bet I'm good. You know, and especially when you're not paying them, right. This is their volunteer time. So if someone's volunteered to do something, they should treat them as such. And I think we have such a. I mean, going next year. Of course, obviously, I go through this whole journey again, but if we don't fix certain things, we're just going to be on this podcast another. Not me this time, someone else talking about, we got to change this, we got to change that. But I don't plan to be here four years talking about that. Yeah, no. [01:01:26] Speaker B: And in terms of Jamal Murray, seen him at Global Jam yesterday. What can you tell us about his relationship with Cannon basketball? Because obviously people are. I was kind of like, if I was him, to be honest, like, and, and just the way things went, I'm like, I, I, I wonder. I'm like, would he ever play again for Canada basketball? But what do you think his relationship? [01:01:42] Speaker A: Yeah, he's a bit. He's a better person than me, you know, I mean, I, I would have been like, I ain't playing ever again. But he's just a good person, solid. And his family does a good job and making him grounded and, and he understood in the sense of, like, he didn't agree with it. Don't get it wrong. But he's bigger than that. And it's about the other 11 guys, you know what I mean? And it's about the country, and he cares about the country. So even though personally he may have, you know, not liked certain things, but from a country standpoint and those other 11 guys that he's there, he knows what he's representing and stands for. So that's why he would come back and he would play. It's not for any particular individuals in leadership that necessarily. [01:02:20] Speaker B: Yeah, 20, 20 Olympics. 2028 Olympics. [01:02:25] Speaker A: Jesus. [01:02:25] Speaker B: Jamal Murray. It's a far away. Yeah. [01:02:27] Speaker A: What a is. No, it's not that far. Not that far. [01:02:29] Speaker B: We'll call you in two weeks. Are we going to be there? [01:02:32] Speaker A: What about it? [01:02:33] Speaker B: You think Jamal might suit up for that? [01:02:35] Speaker A: Obviously, we don't know him. I cannot speak on his behalf, but knowing him, being the competitor he is, if he's healthy and it's not a contract year and he's able to do it, he'll be there. Yeah, he'll be there, but I can't speak on his behalf, but if just knowing him in regards to who he is, he'll play. [01:02:50] Speaker B: Last question. I want to ask you about Canada basketball. Obviously, they're. They announced a bunch of coaches coaching pool. I don't know if you saw it, but a lot of Canadian coaches, I think maybe nine of the 10 were like, Canadian guys that were coaching Scott Morrison, Nate Mitchell, Patrick Tatum, shout out to him. Ashton Smith. I know he's at the Hawks, I'm forgetting guys, but Jamala Raptors. What are your thoughts on. Just like, he seems like a complete, like, overhaul in terms of, like, bringing in more Canadian coaches. What are your thoughts on that? And I know. Is that something that you've been harping on? Obviously, you mentioned, you mentioned Jake. [01:03:22] Speaker A: And by the way, I forgot to mention Nate would have been another great candidate for coach. He has a good relationship with a lot of the guys. But I believe, you know, I think we're trying to fix it, but until it's actually done and like, let's go to our youth level, who's evaluating the talent there, who's coming to watch these kids? And a lot of it's the grassroots guys. We're in there, right? Those guys are in there. They're watching, they're. They're doing things like, listen, when they give you an advice or opinion about kids. And I've, you know, you know, they cut Miles sad like five times. [01:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah, that was crazy. That was crazy. [01:03:56] Speaker A: And I was like, hey, man, you. [01:03:57] Speaker B: Just saw today yeah. 23rd ranked on ESPN. The highest Canadian. [01:04:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Good in the US but not here. Right. So I'm like, guys, you know, you cut my pretty good player, man. I think you maybe want to give him another chance. All right, we got you, Mike, out of respect. They did it. Put him. Cut him again. All right, guys, maybe. Maybe you missed something. Maybe he's having a bad day. But just take my word, you could play. It's like three or four times went through that, and they end up cutting them. And then the following year, he's our best player. Like, how do you miss that? How do you not get that correct? You know? So those are the things I'm saying, like, as a whole program. And again, it's not judging them in a sense of, like, I don't think they're intentionally doing it. I just think they could get better at it. And the other part of getting better is, yeah, okay, great. You're bringing all these coaches in, but what about these. These grassroots guys are on the floor and on the ground doing whatever. Bring them in because they're there. They're the ones will tell you, man, this kid here been killing us, man. That guy. And they're. Even if they're opposing teams, they're like, that guy. That guy should be on the team. [01:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's tough because from the grass, I hear a lot. It's like, they hire. What's his name, Ramon, A Spanish guy. Another guy to coach the United Teens. So he goes in the G League, but. But, yeah, that's. That's kind of like what people, you. [01:05:04] Speaker A: Know, knock on him. I just don't know who he is, you know? He speak English? [01:05:07] Speaker B: I think so. [01:05:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:09] Speaker B: But, uh, let me talk about. [01:05:10] Speaker A: Actually heard he didn't. [01:05:11] Speaker B: Yeah, he did. [01:05:12] Speaker A: They said it was a big language barrier. [01:05:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:13] Speaker A: And I just don't understand, like, we're not in. You know, I get these European countries. I want to bring in an American, you know, I can understand that. But why are we bringing in someone that's not even speaking our language, per se? Never seen these kids. So how are you going to coach them? [01:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah, Ram Green is another guy that I'm like, I don't know why he hasn't played for Canada. Basketball. I think he's one of those times as well. Yeah, one of the best. [01:05:36] Speaker A: They brought him back, though. They brought him back two. To do what? [01:05:38] Speaker B: To cut him. [01:05:39] Speaker A: To cut him. [01:05:41] Speaker B: I was gonna ask you last thing. So what's your. What's your. Obviously, you. You say you've talked to them, You've had conversation with them. Are you kind of now, like, staying back? Are you. When guys. So when players come to you asking, like, should I play? Or like, what's. [01:05:55] Speaker A: No comment. [01:05:56] Speaker B: No comment. [01:05:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I would love for him to play because I still make. You know, it's. You're in a hard place, right? It's like, it's your country, so you want to represent your country. And you always want to tell kids, yo, you get an opportunity to play for your country. Play for your country. But I also see the chaos. And I also, like, my nephew was asked to play. Nate was asked to play in this global thing. And I'm like, I'm not going to let him come and play for you guys. So you can bench. The kid's on the high. He's feeling great. He has potential to make the NBA. He'll come here until you can bench him and treat him kind of great. How many point guards you have? Six of them. Why are you bringing them here? You know, like, so now that's my family. So I'm going to be a little bit more outspoken and tell them, like, no, you're not doing it. But I wish and I hope and I pray that Mike Barlett, which I think is a good guy, I think he's trying his best, but they gotta really be willing to make. And don't say, man, okay, well, let's see how these next four years go then. We're gonna. Cause, man, how long are your windows? You know, so I just. Hopefully they fix it. [01:06:51] Speaker B: So what's your relationship with upper management? Is it much of a relationship? Do you have conversation with them much or. Not anymore. [01:06:57] Speaker A: Not anymore. I'm not speaking to. So I don't have. I'm not in a bad. Like, listen, I just don't have time to keep arguing back and forth with people. And you know who I think like, you know, o' Shea Brissette would have been great on our team last year. Like, why? Like, we played France. If o' Shea Brissette's playing, I think we have a chance that you needed. Guys are going to crash the boards, play tough, be gritty. They just out toughed us last year. And you. And you cut that guy for who? [01:07:21] Speaker B: I'll be honest, I heard stuff too during that camp. Obviously wasn't there, but I heard he was killing workouts. Um, yeah, but obviously roster stuff was kind of already decided, I believe. But yeah, I feel like this conversation is needed. Like, people want to hear from your perspective too, because you Obviously represent a lot of the Canadian players. Right. So I think just people want to hear your perspective and, like, what. What things need to change, you know, so. [01:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:47] Speaker B: But moving on to lighter things quick before we head out. AZ Unity, tell me about the AZ Bella Vista Prep. Tell me about the stuff that you started there and, um, how did that come about and why was there a need for it? And then also getting Canadian guys to the States, I feel like that's a big thing now. [01:08:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't really, like, you know, start it, per se, but, like, you know, your son's involved in it, so. Obviously my son was playing and felt he needed a place to be. And when we first moved to Arizona, you know, Miles and a couple of his parents were like, 9 to 10 years old when my son was there. And they're like, hey, can. Can our kids come down there to go to school? Hell, no, man. They too young, you know, and then I was like, no, no, no. But Miles would come periodically, a month at a time, and hang out. So imagine they. I'm like, you know what? Fine. Three guys can come down. So three turn to nine, turn to whatever else, and, you know, the rest is history in regards to all these. And I always, like I said, my biggest thing is giving back. You know, when I went to Senegal two years ago and. And seeing these kids, you know, playing on the cement. There's a mosque in the background, and there's like, this music or thing in the back. I can't. I don't know what you would call it, but the bell was going off. It was such a powerful moment, you know what I mean? And to kind of be there and see the struggle. And I love when there's no sense of entitlement and to be there and see how powerful that was. I was like, you know what? I need to help these folks, man. Like, I want to help bring some of these kids over. And then they start coming over and bringing guys over, and like I said, the rest is history. And all that stuff kind of created, you know, Arizona unity. The kids start playing for them, and then obviously they start playing for Bella Vista and stuff just kind of took its own legs. And for me, I'm just a big supporter in, like, helping these kids to get over here and just being a support for these guys. [01:09:38] Speaker B: Yeah. What's like to seeing. I'm guessing a lot of these guys now earn their final years. Like Miles entering his final year. What's it like seeing those guys growth and seeing them obviously, like, head to college eventually now, and you saw them. [01:09:51] Speaker A: From young, you know, softy man. So, like last year or this year, this past, like, Jayon Pitt was one of my first kids coming down and, you know, Quinn and Yay and a few of these guys. So kind of going through graduation, I had a little soft moment, little cry. I'm a bad man. Multi man, you know, but multi man can cry. But, you know, at our moment of just like, holy smokes, it's been eight years or whatever this thing has been. And, like, here's your first. Like, you know, there's guys that went on, like my nephew that went on before, but this is the first, like, of the first guys that came down, so it's pretty powerful. Now. I don't know how I'm gonna react next year because Miles, your son, My son. And all these guys, like, these are true, true, original, like, yeah. [01:10:34] Speaker B: Day ones. [01:10:35] Speaker A: I don't know if I'm ready for all that. So, yeah, I want to just enjoy the year. [01:10:38] Speaker B: Chipotle. Hopefully, you guys, you know. [01:10:40] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. The kids, you know, they're all pumped up and excited. I think they got a good coaching staff. They got, you know, the school's all pumped up. [01:10:45] Speaker B: Nice. [01:10:46] Speaker A: So I'm excited to watch the guys. [01:10:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I got on my. My way down to Arizona. I was there for what, first session? [01:10:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:51] Speaker B: Of. Of. What do you call it at UiBL? [01:10:55] Speaker A: Yep. [01:10:56] Speaker B: So it's been. It was fun. I honestly enjoy, like, those. That stuff going there, going Peach Jam. Like, it's the best basketball you will ever see, too. And it was nice seeing you get back into the. To the coaching a little bit. You know, just helping out my son, man. [01:11:08] Speaker A: I. Listen, I gotta. I think there's so many. You know, my dad wasn't around, so I think any opportunity, this work stuff can draw and drag a lot of your attention. So any opportunity you get to be with your son and instill in him. And the best compliment I have of anything is when people come back. You know, my daughters are amazing too. Right. But when people come back with my son and they're like, man, he's right. Nicest dudes I've ever met in my life. [01:11:32] Speaker B: I'll say that. [01:11:33] Speaker A: Yeah, he's very respectful and all that. I'm like, all right, cool. So I know if I die tomorrow, you know, hopefully I've taught him enough to be a man and how he handles himself. [01:11:42] Speaker B: I'll agree with that, because last time I saw him, he'll come up to me, say, how you doing? Because off meeting him Watching the team play. So he's shout out to. No, George. Shout out to. To Nikki Davis, too. Legend. Yeah. A guy like that, obviously, I think I've talked about him before, but he's. He's someone that I feel like people don't know about a lot, but everyone in the grassroots, I feel like, know him. So, Mike, I can't thank you enough. Anything else you want to talk about, Phil? We talked about a lot. We covered a lot. I kept you too long. [01:12:08] Speaker A: A little bit. You're lucky, you know, you're lucky. I like you. You're good. I mean, listen, you guys are always welcome. Come down to Arizona. It's a beautiful place, especially when you're freezing over here, you know, feel free to come on down. But appreciate what you guys are doing, too. For the community, I think it's important to get the word out. I think it's important for other guys, like I said, to give back, come on the show and know you had me walk 30 minutes and I enjoyed. [01:12:30] Speaker B: Every step I got. I could have got you Uber, man. [01:12:32] Speaker A: I wanted to walk. I. I actually enjoy walking. It's therapeutic. [01:12:35] Speaker B: Have you been downtown Espanada, you know, Espana area? [01:12:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Familiar with all them. I'm enjoying my. I'm about to go walk more. Get out of here. I'm going to continue my walk. [01:12:43] Speaker B: Nice. All right. This has been the Canadian basketball show. We've been joined by Mike George, power agent. Yeah, if you guys like episodes like this, man, rate, like, review, send us what you thought, send us your questions, anything like that. Any guests you guys want in the future, let us know. But yeah, this has been the Canadian basketball show. Your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball with Mike with Lee Band. We out.