Myck Kabongo on becoming a coach, unfair NCAA suspension and illustrious 10-year pro career

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:04] Speaker B: Welcome to the Canadian Basketball show, your go to spot for the latest news stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. I'm your host, Lee Ban Osmond. We got a really good guest in the building. A basketball legend, pioneer. He was a five star recruit, a McDonald's All American and one of the most electrifying point guards to ever come out of Canada. He played college basketball Texas and carved out an impressive 10 year professional career and just recently coached in the G League with the Utah Jazz affiliate team. And in my opinion, if you ask me humbly, he's the greatest basketball player to ever come out of downtown Toronto. Blake Street's own, Mike Cabongo, welcome to the show, man. [00:00:43] Speaker C: Thank you for having me, man. It's a pleasure and love what you guys are doing. There needs to be more stories that are covered, not just minds and I love what you guys are doing, so thank you. [00:00:53] Speaker B: Of course, of course, man. I seen you at Global Jam. That's when I was like, that's when idea kicked him. I gotta get Mike on the podcast, man. Especially coaching now. Tell me how that happened. Coach coaching at Global Jam. [00:01:02] Speaker C: I would like to give the credit to a couple people. It starts with Coach Hurley, Dan Hurley, who was my high school coach, who at the time, you don't understand why they're doing the things they're doing. You just, you know, everyone could attest to that when you're young and you have people that are drilling things into, you gotta be the first in the gym, last to leave and you know, you don't understand why, but now you understand when you go to college. So I was very privileged to have someone preparing me for college at such a high level. And when I got to college, I had Rick Barnes, who is a Hall of Famer who just finished getting a lifetime contract in Tennessee. [00:01:36] Speaker A: Crazy. [00:01:36] Speaker C: I don't think we've ever seen that. So that needs to, you know, people need to understand who I've played for, first of all, to make me want to coach. So I had two hall of Famers there. And then after that, when I turn pro, I get Greg Popovich, my rookie year, you know, going to camp with the Spurs. So I think I got the trifecta that you don't necessarily get in basketball. Sometimes you get a horrible high school coach. Doesn't get you ready for college. I got lucky. I was ready. Then after college, I got a real coach that got me ready for the pros. And it's for kids to know how important each stage is because if you don't get the right coaching, the next stage, you're behind. And I was very lucky to be prepared for each stage of the way. And I got very lucky to even have a ten year career. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:18] Speaker B: Dan Hurley at Saint Bendic, right? [00:02:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:20] Speaker B: What was he like? Cause I like thinking about it like his journey. This guy's a. A legend out at UConn. Two back to back national titles. But what was he like as a high school coach? [00:02:29] Speaker C: His father, first of all, is in the hall of Fame. [00:02:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:31] Speaker C: You know what I mean? Bobby Senior. And his brother is a hell of a coach too. [00:02:35] Speaker B: Arizona. [00:02:35] Speaker C: One of the best point guards ever. Bobby Hurley Jr. To, to ever play college basketball. So his family is like, you know his basketball. What is a royalty. [00:02:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:46] Speaker C: So to play for him, first of all is when he was hungry because he's like the. What do you say? The black seed, the black star child, you know what I mean? Where not a lot was expected from him because he didn't have the career that he had as a player. So he came into, you know, coaching with so much fire and you could see he had so much passion for us. He cared for us outside the game too, which in this business, you find out you're not going to have a lot of people that care for you after you're just a number. Which is unfortunate, but that's the reality of the thing that we're in. But he gave it the piece of. No, it's bigger than basketball. And that's why you see him go to UConn and win two back to backs. And I think the next coach I would get a lifetime contract and that'd be crazy. I would have played for two. [00:03:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that'll be crazy. Like you mentioned, I think he cares about his players. Like my guy, Tyler Murray from Esplanade era, he played for him and he went out to the final four and he was like, every single time you. [00:03:37] Speaker C: Talk about that better Tyler got first of all. [00:03:39] Speaker A: Right? [00:03:39] Speaker C: So if you want to talk about player development, this guy knows how to get players better. Like Tyler did not look the same like prior to coach Early. I'm sorry. Once he's got coach Early, Tyler's gonna be listening to this for sure. You can heat a test for too. And Tyler's my guy too. You know me, I never throw shade where it's not me. So for me it's always facts in my. In my rap. [00:03:58] Speaker B: You would agree too. [00:03:58] Speaker C: Yeah, facts in my rap. So for me it's just to see the improvement he had from his one year and Then his second year, and then he carved out a playing career from it. So it's kind of dope just to see people from our, you know, where we come from end up in situations, great situations, to help them, not only in basketball, but beyond. Because you see what he's doing now. He's in the coaching field and he's learned from the best. So I'm pretty sure he's going to carve out a great coaching career, too. Yeah. [00:04:23] Speaker B: Dan Hurley, obviously, two downtown legends playing for. For Dan. Kind of crazy. I'm excited to have you on just to talk about, obviously, your journey as a top prospect in Toronto. Maybe because, like, there's players coming up now that I feel like you bring a lot of wisdom to. Just advice. People want to know what it was like coming up. Obviously we talked about McDonald's, all American. We'll get into that. Your recruitment, what was like college basketball. And then all that happened. I feel like the unfair suspension. I feel like now looking at nil, everyone's kind of like, you know, it's crazy that it happened. And then going through the draft process, playing overseas, obviously now coaching. But like I said, you grew up in Blake Street. What was it like growing up there? [00:04:59] Speaker C: Well, first we came to Bleecker. [00:05:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:01] Speaker C: So when we first got here, we were in Bleeker. So I was always a downtown kid to the core. After we moved to Bleecker, then we went to Blake. And for me, it was just. I got to see the best basketball ever. I'm talking about pound for pound. Like I had basketball eyes, the eye test. Pound for pound. To this day, I think the best players were from my neighborhood because that's what made me, Alex Penon, the best wing I've ever seen by far. Play. Probably drank before the game, you know what I'm saying? Probably gonna say that here. [00:05:30] Speaker B: That's all good. [00:05:31] Speaker C: Probably. He's doing his thing on the block, but once he had to strap him up, boy, oh boy, pure score. Like he had so much pace to his game. He had a mid range, he had post game. Then I had. I used to see Damien, who's a small, feisty guard, got to his spots wherever he wanted to and he was seeing plays before plays because he was just going to paint, not even looking. The rim cutters going bop, no looks. That was his game. I used to see that all the time. So that was where my passing came from, feel. And then Adnan was such a big time shooter. Talk about shooters from the block. We all know we all have one of those, you know, man's fat, too. You know what I'm saying? But he could stay in the corner and hit your fire. You never leave him open. [00:06:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:11] Speaker C: So Adnan taught me how to, first of all, stand still, be ready to shoot. Shot preparation was crazy, too. Talk about shot preparation. His hands were ready to shoot at all times. So these are little things that I saw from my neighborhood. Competitiveness. Every game almost ended in a fight, you know what I mean? Because of how competitive it was. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Was that just, like how you got into basketball through the neighborhood? [00:06:30] Speaker C: Yep, through the neighborhood. I mean, we played soccer, you know, back home. Where I came from, Congo, we only played soccer. So when I got here and I saw people playing with their hands, I was confused. [00:06:38] Speaker B: What, did you move to south Toronto? 6. Was it a culture shock at all? [00:06:41] Speaker C: Definitely, yeah. Definitely completely different. The infrastructure, you know, weather, you know, I was not built to be in winners at all. [00:06:49] Speaker B: You know, I'm still not built. [00:06:50] Speaker C: No. Still not built for. So for me, it was just that adjustment period that I had to make that I made once I moved to. To Canada from Congo. [00:06:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Who were some of your favorite players coming? Actually, let me ask you this, because I had Mike George on the podcast, and I was like. He was talking about. Obviously we were debating, like, what neighborhood produces the best talent. I was like, give some downtown some love, you know? And he's like, who do they got other than Mike Cabangwa? Can you give me some names over something like downtown? Like, if you had to build your, like, best players to come out of downtown Toronto? [00:07:21] Speaker C: Okay, so we can't claim Jamal McGlory because he is Scarborough, but he came to downtown a lot. But you can't claim. Okay, we can, because it's not fair. [00:07:29] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:30] Speaker C: I would say Messiah Vidal Messiah. [00:07:34] Speaker A: Okay. [00:07:35] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. Northern Kings. Yeah. [00:07:36] Speaker A: Yep, yep. [00:07:37] Speaker C: Ronnie Williams. [00:07:38] Speaker A: Boom. [00:07:41] Speaker B: I'm putting that spot. [00:07:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Webster Web Braids from Eastern. [00:07:45] Speaker A: Boom. [00:07:46] Speaker C: Larry Duncan doesn't count because he is from the west. And he transferred over. We'll also take his name. Light Skin plays in the team, too. Can shoot it. Wait, he might be from you guys. [00:08:03] Speaker B: He might be from esp. [00:08:04] Speaker C: He might be espad. [00:08:05] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:08:07] Speaker C: Manny. Manny's Regent. No, he went to Earl. [00:08:11] Speaker B: Manny's. Hey, Manny's Espon. He lives in Espan now. [00:08:14] Speaker C: Hey, Manny's kind of region, though. He was over there when he was young. That made him, you know, Then he came to the outside, you know. [00:08:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:24] Speaker C: But I would say, you know, those guys. We have a couple guys Oh, I keep forgetting their name. Skinny. [00:08:30] Speaker B: Skinny went to St. John's St. John's I'm forgetting. Hey, it's not. I'm too young. I'm too young for this. [00:08:35] Speaker C: I got the legend. I don't even know their nicknames, but Skinny, who ended up going to St. John's an Eastern guy, too. Downtown guy. Legend. He was sick, and then I can. I think that can round up top five right there. Ain't got name for five years. [00:08:48] Speaker B: I'll take your names. [00:08:48] Speaker A: Huh? [00:08:50] Speaker C: Downtown, we just built a little different. Yeah, just built a little different. You know, we had the skill set and the heart. You know, I think everywhere else. See, the West Ham had, I think, the athletes. Right. This area right here, you guys had, like, a little bit of skill with. [00:09:06] Speaker B: The toughness, but we got the swagger. [00:09:10] Speaker C: You guys had the swag, too. We had the swag, too. We had the swag, too. Because the park right here always had good runs. Saturday Esplanade, Espionage runs on Saturday. [00:09:18] Speaker B: Everybody knows about it. [00:09:19] Speaker C: Everyone. If you know, you know. So you guys did have the runs, too. A lot of good hoopers out of Esplanade, actually. A lot. [00:09:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:26] Speaker C: John Ennis had some guys. Bleecker has some guys. But, you know, at the same time, it's all downtown core. I feel like a lot of people didn't get the opportunity after because the opportunities were not as, I think, as scarce as it is now. Guys that I think would have had, I mean, chances to go D1, there was not that many chances. You only had, like 5 handful of guys going D1. As to now, if you think about the talent pool that this just whole GT Air GTA area produces, we'd have a lot more. So it's kind of cool that first of all, those guys pioneered and opened the doors and the floodgates for these guys to have these opportunities. But it's kind of cool that, you know, they. They have some sort of platform where we can shout them out and then show love to them. [00:10:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:07] Speaker B: You played at Eastern Commerce, obviously. What was it like playing there? And was there a moment where, like, things start to blow up for you? [00:10:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, before I came there, so already some rumblings, you know, because we know we did our thing at Super 64. I played up with Coach Row or Coach Roy. Roy Russell, and then Roy ran and was at Eastern Commerce. But, nah, just being around the guys. First of all, I have to say, Junior Cadugan, to me, is one of the best players ever to come out of Canada to Me just for what he stood for, first of all. And I just looked up to him because he was the first one to really leave from here and then go to the States afterwards, you know, from a tragic situation. And he turned out his situation to be for betterment for him and his family. But I think he's one of the best to ever do it. And he was the blueprint for my. My career because he showed us how to do it. Went to Eastern, went overseas. I mean, went back to the States, did his thing, scholarship, and, you know, was out of the way. You know, trench baby, Real trench baby. You know, he showed us the way. So I'm very, very grateful that for what Junior has done for my career. And, you know, hopefully I just gave that to other people as well. [00:11:10] Speaker B: See, the first one. Were there other guys that have gone? [00:11:12] Speaker C: There's other guys that have gone, but it's not to the magnitude. The ninth grade, like, Junior left the earliest, I believe. So if we're taking Canadian history for what it is, I think Junior was the first player to ever just leave out of high school. And then, you know, we followed suit after that. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah, it's crazy. Now, everyone, Everyone. [00:11:28] Speaker C: Yeah, Everyone stay here. Now. [00:11:30] Speaker B: What's your thoughts on that? [00:11:31] Speaker C: Incredible. Because if you can stay here and I have to go to the States, you see how crazy America is. [00:11:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:35] Speaker C: Y' all seen that? Place is crazy. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:37] Speaker C: Right. [00:11:38] Speaker B: So we'll talk about what happened today. I don't know if you saw the news. [00:11:40] Speaker C: Crazy. [00:11:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:41] Speaker C: First of all. [00:11:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:42] Speaker C: Showed my mom. [00:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah. We don't talk about it. [00:11:44] Speaker C: Yeah. But it's kind of crazy. Kind of crazy. It's kind of. [00:11:47] Speaker B: America's in a tough spot right now. [00:11:49] Speaker C: And you know what? They are the world leaders for what everyone copies. So it's very scary to see that's the stage of what everyone is mimicking. And it's, like, so dangerous. So for me just to see, first of all, our athletes and our guys stay home. If you don't have to have the safety of going to your school and they get in. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, stay home, be around good people. Canadians a lot more nicer. It's true. [00:12:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:11] Speaker C: You know what I mean? They have class. Stay home. Scouts gonna come find you. [00:12:16] Speaker B: How did you end up there, though? Say that Benedict Prep. How did that opportunity come up for you? And, like, how'd you end up over there? [00:12:23] Speaker C: So how I ended up, obviously, the year at 64, I should have left to go to school in States then. But they're like, no, stay here at Eastern Commerce. I stayed for like right until we were about to go to officer and I was about to play up. That's when I had transferred out to go to school in the States. But I think it was a magnitude of different things. One was my profile was obviously starting to rise. A lot of people starting to take notice of what I did in my junior year at Eastern. I was playing pretty well. And then au circuit that, that spring, I was balling out, you know, I was really balling out. I was looking at names of guys that they had ranked and I'll go at them every time that we've seen them. And then from there they're like, okay, this guy might be the number one point guard. And then that gave me opportunity for coach Hurley to come see me play. Once he saw me play, came to, begged my mom from my mom to let me play. My mom only told him one thing, said, make sure you teach my treat my son like he's yours. And once he said he was going to do that, my mom said yes, because, you know, our parents hold us dearly, you know, especially our mothers. So it was nice to have, you know, my mother's blessing to go down to school. And then it was love from there. [00:13:26] Speaker B: It was all favorite matchups you had in high school. [00:13:29] Speaker C: A lot. Toughest one was Tyreek Evans. Yeah, by far. Not even close. [00:13:34] Speaker B: Yeah, not even close special about him. [00:13:35] Speaker C: First of all, it's a 6 foot 6 point guard. Think about it. Before we were talking about big guards, Lucas and world, before we talk about those guys. And let's talk about it. His rookie year in the NBA, 25.55. He was the rookie of the year. Not Steph Curry. Right. He's only in the lead out the league because of other circumstances, of course, you know, but in high school, pace couldn't do anything about it. Played at his own pace in high school, which is crazy. Secondly, the aura, everybody comes out when he was playing like this is before the Internet, you know what I mean? So think about Pac gyms wrapped around lines. He had that aura. Third, he had the team act that you can never block. So he was doing it so slow to his hesi. And he used to shoot behind his head too. And he's six' six. So he. You see it coming. [00:14:21] Speaker B: You can't block it. [00:14:22] Speaker C: You can't block it in your face. And I'll tell you go, go look up if you kids mean streets Go look up what he did to Derrick Rose. [00:14:28] Speaker B: Mixtapes were crazy. [00:14:29] Speaker C: Yeah, versus Eric Gordon in aau, and both of them are the same thing. By himself, dealt with them by. But he was that elite. And I think. Yeah, I think that's by far the hardest matchup that I had to face in high school. [00:14:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:40] Speaker B: You play with Corey Tristan, aau. What was that like those days? I think you guys were, like, the first major team to win, like, a US Tournament. From Canada, at least. Yeah. What was that like? [00:14:49] Speaker C: Those are my brothers. You know, we had a great run. Great run. It was fun. We always knew it was bigger than us. That's the thing. I mean, you got to understand it's bigger for you, especially where we were as a nation and as a country, we just didn't like the disrespect. You know, they were disrespecting us. Like, we couldn't hoop. Like, we didn't work hard. Like, we were not the hardest workers. We. We knew we had to work hard, but once we were around these guys and we were working that we worked harder than them, so we just felt like we were disrespected. So every time we went out to play, we went out to play with a edge on our, you know, chip on our shoulder, first of all, and the edge. And that's why I think you could see, like, the way we play. We just met each other. Well, each other's games. We never really lost a lot. And shout out to Brady Heslip, who was also on that team. Shout out to Dwight Powell, who was also on that team. Andrew Wiggins, also on that team. [00:15:39] Speaker B: Is that the stackest team ever? [00:15:41] Speaker C: Possibly? I think so. Oluwashalu Junior. Cadougan Devoe Joseph. [00:15:48] Speaker B: Wow. [00:15:50] Speaker C: Jason Khalees. [00:15:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:52] Speaker C: Scarborough. Bucket. [00:15:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:54] Speaker C: Bucket. He was such a bucket. And who am I forgetting? Oh, Dylan Wright. What's his name? Right. He's a good guard. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:02] Speaker C: And then there was one more wing passed away from Nova Scotia. Forget his name. I forget his name. Very, very talented, but he'll come back. [00:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Special team. [00:16:13] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:16:14] Speaker B: You were named to the McDonald's All American Game 2011. Ken Birch was also on that. Kyle Wil. What do you remember about being a McDonald's All American? Like, and it's kind of like when you talk about, like, the guys coming up, and it was kind of this wave of talent. Did. Did it feel like. Like we talk about the golden age. Did it feel like when you're playing, you're like, wow, like, Canada's on the map now. Like, we, like, the talent coming up is crazy. People are starting to recognize it. But tell me about the McDonald's on American too. [00:16:41] Speaker C: Definitely felt that because one, we were like, the only ones really. You can see the media was not like. It was probably like three people from Canada there. You could just see we were not there yet, but we were coming. And it was nice to see that we propel the start of something, because after that, it was just year in, year out. It just kept coming and coming. But, I mean, we had so much fun. I was just with Kyle the other week. He's going into year 10. He just helped our. You. [00:17:06] Speaker A: Our. [00:17:06] Speaker C: Our team in the Pan Ams games or. Where were they at a few. America. [00:17:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:11] Speaker C: America. [00:17:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:12] Speaker C: There it is. There he did. He was hooping. He was hooping. He was playing well. And Kim's still playing. He's playing well. So it's just great to see those guys still have a career, still playing at a high level, too. And just to see where we started, how many years ago it was to now. Now you couldn't have seen this, but we kind of seen it coming, like a little bit. Yeah, kind of seen it coming. [00:17:31] Speaker B: You obviously end up at Texas, but what was your, like, first college offer? Do you remember what it was? Getting the call? What do you remember? [00:17:38] Speaker C: Kenesha's. Kenesha's college. I got a letter, and then I couldn't believe it. I got a letter because I used to actually email every school in the seventh grade. I went down because on the sites, they used to have their emails for coaches. I don't know if they still have any more, but when you go to a roster on a coaching college back in the day, used to say their phone number, email. I copied and paste the same message to every single school. Hey, I'm Michael Bongo. May you please recruit me? I'm in Canada. I'm not good right now, but I might be good. I'm telling you, I'm working hard. Recruit me. And then two years later, my first letter to Kenesha's. My first one that I really wanted, though. And then after that, I just started rolling in. Rolling in. But the first one I really did want was Maryland because I loved Juan Dixon, Lonnie Baxter. I loved that team, and I loved their jerseys. So I wanted to go to Maryland, but Tristan didn't want to go to Maryland. So it was like, if Tristan ain't going, I'm not going. But now Maryland was the first offer I'd say that I really wanted, and I was so excited to even go to their campus. Go to their visit. And yeah, it was a good time. It was a good time before I ended up to Texas, but Duke was the very close to school in Kentucky. If I didn't go to Texas, I. [00:18:46] Speaker B: Was gonna say, did Corey and Tristan play influence on that or. You talked about. [00:18:49] Speaker C: We always knew we wanted to play together, but I knew they were one and done. Like at some point around February talking, they're like, yeah, we might leave. So I was like, you know, my relationship I have with coach Barnes in Austin. I just came back from Austin, they loved me there. So like my third home. So it just made the most sense. Rodney Terry, who recruited me was there at the time, made it feel like family. Still family to this day. So you don't get that a lot in basketball. So I was just grateful that I stuck with my gut and picked Texas. [00:19:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:21] Speaker B: How many offers did you end up with? [00:19:23] Speaker C: I wouldn't went to any school. [00:19:25] Speaker B: Any school. Kentucky, Duke? [00:19:26] Speaker C: Every school. Every school? [00:19:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:28] Speaker C: Kansas? Every school. [00:19:29] Speaker B: What was it like narrating? Did you go on many visits? [00:19:31] Speaker C: No. Well, I should have took all my. I mean that's what I was. But you know, I'm so narrow minded. I'm a person where I don't waste people's time. I feel that, you know, it's like at the time too, it's like, why am I going to visit Miami? And I know I'm not going, but in reality, why not go to Miami? [00:19:46] Speaker B: Get the weather, get the hotel, why. [00:19:48] Speaker C: Not go to Miami? But for me, I'm just a person like that in my regular life. I don't really waste time, you know, if I know what I'm here to do, I'm going to go do that. I took a couple. Duke was one of my officials. [00:20:00] Speaker B: What was Duke like? [00:20:01] Speaker C: Incredible. I took an unofficial, actually. My unofficial. Yeah, that was incredible. North Carolina unofficial. [00:20:08] Speaker B: Where else? [00:20:10] Speaker C: Ucla. Fire. I like their facilities, big time facilities there. There's one more school, Oregon's nice too. Yeah, they just got all the Nike drip. Yeah, they got everything you need, but nothing beats Texas. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Texas, nothing. [00:20:24] Speaker C: Nothing beats Texas. Not even close. [00:20:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:27] Speaker B: So obviously, Tristan, those guys played a factor too. But what was the selling point? How did they picture you and their system? And what was their selling point to you? [00:20:35] Speaker C: They trusted me with the ball right away. It was going to be my team. You know, Coach was asking me about what do I like. We had constant communication. I mean, I hung out with coach Barnes probably more than anybody else there. Like we went to church together, watched so much film together. [00:20:52] Speaker B: I hear he's blunt and, like, very funny. [00:20:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:20:55] Speaker C: But you have to be able to take the tough coaching. For me, it's like, if you're a great player, you want that, because if you like, if you just let. If you're getting coaching, you do whatever you want. You guys are not winning. That's bad basketball culture for me. Someone that's pushing you to win, that's good basketball culture. I was very fortunate to have people that pushed me to have good basketball culture in my IQ and when I play. And that's what Coach Barnes literally did. We used to spend probably six hours in the film room. Six. No lie. I used to fall asleep and. But when. I mean, the detail that I learned, I could watch film and break it down to a T because my coach made me do this throughout my two years in college, you know, I think I spent so much time in the film room, and it helps me now with my job, you know, when I have to break down film for a coach, if whatever a defensive coach needs something, I. I know how to clip up film clips and get it to him right away. As to like, it being foreign language to me. [00:21:57] Speaker B: Yeah, obviously you were top 10, I think top 11 player on ESPN. What was that like? Did you pay attention much to that kind of stuff? Obviously, there's a lot of pressure. I'm guessing, like, Toronto people are like, mike, Mike this. Obviously, we've seen Corey, Tristan, like, what was that like being ranked on espn? And then how did you deal with all that kind of stuff? [00:22:17] Speaker C: Lucky for me, I have a strong support system at home. My brothers don't play that. So my brothers humbled me very quickly. I was never allowed to ever really read an article about me. Of course, you know, the hype's there. Obviously, the following online celebrities be hitting you. [00:22:32] Speaker A: Who. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Who was the craziest? [00:22:35] Speaker C: I mean, if you can name Drake. Crazy Drake. Yeah, of course. Like, that's the boy. So, you know, shout out to niece. That's family. So obviously you meet people that become close with you from becoming elite, you know. So for me, it's just I never knew until I met people in person because my brothers never really let me read an article. I was locked in on being the best basketball player and the rest came with it. I'd never really chased all of that extra stuff. I just knew if, all right, they said that he was better than me. I got to show that I'm better. And that was my mindset. I didn't really care about XYZ or the outside noise. It was always about my improvement, my better, my, like my trajectory and my race, you know, not someone else's. [00:23:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:18] Speaker B: What was the buzz like after your, your freshman year? Because I know there was obviously lottery buzz, that kind of stuff. Tell me about that and obviously we'll talk about the, the stuff that happened afterwards. [00:23:26] Speaker C: But winning, winning was the thing for me. We went to the NCAA tournament, lost to Cincinnati, had a great team, should have won. I didn't play the greatest that I wanted to play. And, you know, first round pick sounded nice, but I was like, they told me, if I go back to school, you can be a lottery pick. For me it was about winning. And that's what I wanted to do, prove to people I'm a winner. And I always wanted to win a national championship because I feel like all the best guards always win, you know, so that was the sale pitch for me to go back to school. And obviously it didn't work out that way. Of course not. But yeah, that was the main reason why I wanted to go back to school. Could have been a first round draft pick, but chose the winning route and wanted to go back to school. [00:24:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:02] Speaker B: And then obviously you start your sophomore season, 21, 2011, 2012. Then under investigation for what they called like alleged inappropriate contact with Rich Paul, obviously an Asian at the time. But you just went out for a workout. Can you explain the whole story for people? I think a lot of people know, but from your point of view, and then also just like the workout, you just went out to work out with Tristan Thompson. From my understanding. Can you tell the story? [00:24:26] Speaker C: Just the biggest thing with that is just I just wanted to be better, a better basketball player. And no kid, when you really look at my case and what happened to me, should ever be punished for wanting to be around what he wants to become. And we see it with internships in every field. But why is it when it's sports and us, it's always a thing. We really gotta look at that with some of these sanctions that are set upon us. And Mines was a perfect example. And I'm just grateful that Mines, we could say I'm the sacrificial lamb for what's to come now with this nil deal. And I love it because now that you don't have to worry about the XYZs and they're getting treated and compensated as what they are, which is an asset to these universities when they step foot on campus, which is what I was. And at the time, of course, you know, it was way back in the day didn't know how to deal with someone like me, but now they do. And that's what it's about. It's for someone like me to go through what I went through for the next in the future to get a better edge of the stick than I did. But yeah, for me, it was just a kid that was trying to get better, be around what I wanted to become. I had good friends that helped me get to that point and get there. But, you know, some people didn't see it that way. And sometimes the cards are dealt that way. You know, I don't live with that. I think I'm happy because what you see now when I go back to school and I see these kids in my our campus, he's getting paid for his jersey or his poster being up there. That's what it's about. Yeah, that's what it's about. [00:25:51] Speaker B: Do you feel like. Because I had Roy Russell on and he was saying, you should sue the ncaa, like, he was saying that kind of stuff. Because when you think about a $300 flight costs you, like, what I think was like 20 something games or whatever it is, you don't play until February. Like, when did you realize you were getting investigated? And like going, when you're on, you're like, all for like, I just want to go, oop, I want to go get better. Like, what was going through your mind when they're investigating you? And then like the decision afterwards too. [00:26:18] Speaker C: It was more, so why y' all in my business? That's about it. [00:26:24] Speaker A: I'm. [00:26:25] Speaker C: I don't understand why I'm getting asked these questions, because I'm just going my day to day on campus. So just, you know, that's all it was for me. I don't understand how y' all in my business. But at the same time, you have to understand when you're a hot commodity to some people, they're going to want to know what's in your business. So for me, it was just not understanding why people wanted to be in my business. And then, you know, one story went from telling you guys what happened to not telling you guys what happened, and they just fell under the oath of the ncaa because both stories were not the same, is that I lied under oath, which was not the case. I just did not want to tell y' all my business the first time. And the second time with the, you know, the advice that we got from our lawyers with the school that helped me have for this case, they said, just tell them. And that was the case. But for me, it's just, again, situation where the kid was just trying to get better, was looked upon a different way. And I'm just grateful now that no one else has to go through that, because now you can go work out and no one's gonna say a thing. [00:27:23] Speaker B: I'm seeing kids at grade eight, nine. [00:27:25] Speaker C: Yeah, he allowed to go through that, which is great, and I'm happy for that. [00:27:29] Speaker B: What was it like watching from the sidelines that season? Was it tough? [00:27:31] Speaker C: For sure. And by the way, this is for any player that has to sit out due to injury. Whatever circumstance can happen, you get a chance to improve when you're injured or sitting. That was my mindset, even though I was not playing. First of all, what can I do to contribute to my teammates? That was because I'm. First of all, I'm mad that I can't be out there and go to war with my guys, because my guys know if I'm out there with them, we have a great chance to win. But how could I still add that to that team without being on the floor? So I was doing little things, like making sure towels is good, guys coming out of timeouts, you need the water. I see a play, I'm making sure I'm yelling on the bench. You know, making sure if I see something, telling the coach, hey, bro, let's go to this. You know, this is working. So just doing things to help my team. While I was on the sideline, I still got to practice. I was still practicing hard, did extra hours at the gym when no one was watching. So there's still ways for me to get better and improve even though I was not playing. So that's my thing for young players to know as well. There's going to be times where you might be injured, might be away from the game, but you still get a chance to improve when you sit down watching. And you can still contribute to winning by giving good energy to your teammates and your team. [00:28:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:42] Speaker B: How much do you think that impacted? Obviously, we're talking about lottery, buzz, that kind of stuff. How much do you think that, like, impacted the momentum you had? [00:28:49] Speaker C: Definitely a lot. But at the end of the day, I don't know. You know, it's. That's a. That's an. I don't know question that you. You can. You can never know in scale. But I do know that I'm here now, so I can't really, you know, scale that to know what it would have done, could have done. [00:29:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:07] Speaker B: And for you, like, obviously, and we're talking about nil, that kind of stuff. When you saw that pop up and obviously kids talking about age of the man, so making like 7 mil, that kind of stuff. What's like seeing that? And obviously you talked about the excitement. And then now obviously I'm hearing like bench players are getting paid like 500, 000 easy. You know, easy. What's that like too? And what's your message to kids when you're talking to them about like now nil and then I don't know, man, I feel like they got to cut you a check. [00:29:39] Speaker C: I mean, hey, whoever wants to take the case, take it. They told me the statute of limitations. But hey, who knows? Joy is the first thing that comes to mind when I hear, when you tell me something like that. Because I know how much work these players have put in since they were young. Little jits. This is like when the lights are not on first of all to make it to that level. So you should be getting compensated. These universities been making so much money off these athletes backs. It's only right. It's only right. It's only right. So for me, I love seeing it from the starter to the bench player pay them because there's a lot of money that these people have been making out these kids and you wonder if they're making this. Trust me, it should be more. Remember that. So if you've seen a number seven, it really should be 15 million. So just remember all these kids and these athletes that are making these monies, putting the lights on a lot of these universities, helping build medical fields, helping build new programs off of a sport. Pay them. [00:30:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:38] Speaker B: What's the biggest thing maybe you learned about yourself throughout that whole process? Like obviously I'm thinking about it like it's not like it's not a situation that where you can blame yourself, but it's a situation where like maybe you're looking at it like. Like things happen. [00:30:50] Speaker C: Right. [00:30:50] Speaker B: But then it's also like how you take it and how you react. You talked about obviously being on the bench helping. I see, I've seen photos of you like wearing a suit, on the coach, on the bench, that kind of stuff. What was it like? Just when you think about what you learned from that whole situation, obviously now it's been what, like almost what, 14, 14 years since. [00:31:08] Speaker C: It's a big question. Good question, man. How much I love basketball? You know, I had every reason not to continue to play, you know, especially something like that. I could only imagine if you put someone in the shoes today and you put that. Then you ask them. They're not gonna tell you. They're gonna still play. My answer is I'm still playing. That's what it showed me, how much I really love this game. And I don't know if we have people in this sport that love it that way anymore. It's missing. It's missing. So that's what I know I'm bringing as a coach. First of all, is that love and that passion. Cause this means a lot more to me. He took me out of 40, Blake. I got to see the whole world three times. Three. There's airports. I come to now, I'm like, all right, where am I? I fall asleep, wake up sometimes. I'm dead. I'm being for. I'm very old school. The worst with the phones and everything. Because I keep the main thing. The main thing. I don't worry about xyz. Trust me. My life is just basketball. When I leave here, I go to see who's the best next out of here. [00:32:12] Speaker A: Okay. [00:32:13] Speaker C: Not here. Who's the best next best. Really, my life is basketball. So that's the biggest thing that I've learned from this all. I love this game. [00:32:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Did you consider going back to Texas at all or. Tell me about the process. Obviously, enter the draft after that. Tell me about the decision, because I think a lot of people, they play this dance, right? It's like, whether now Nils a lot of guys, from what I've heard is just like, even if you're a guaranteed, you should go back because money's crazy. But obviously for you, it's like. I don't know if it's a tainted experience, but obviously you love Texas too. You love the school. You talked about that. Tell me about the. The debate. Rick Barnes. What was he telling you? [00:32:49] Speaker C: You know Rick Barnes. He's funny. He was pressuring me for sure to stay. Yeah, for sure. Who wouldn't want me to stay? But I kind of wanted to stay, too. But after my second year, obviously after, you know, distasteful feeling your mouth like that, I just felt like my time, my tension there was done. Of course, I wish I gave that university more, but like I said, I go back now, it's love. Because they know how much I gave it for the time that I was there. And every time I step into 40 acres, they know how much I care about them. [00:33:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:21] Speaker C: It's always hooking horns. They know that. [00:33:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:23] Speaker B: We went on to average 14.6 points per game in the last 11 games. You enter the draft, obviously I've been covering a lot of the draft process, that kind of stuff. And what was it like for you? I'm guessing you're working how many teams you end up working out for? What was that whole process like? [00:33:37] Speaker C: Was that for, like, 20? It was a lot. [00:33:40] Speaker B: 20 teams. [00:33:41] Speaker C: 20 teams. [00:33:42] Speaker B: Damn. [00:33:42] Speaker C: A lot. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Craziest workout you remember. [00:33:44] Speaker C: One week I went from. I was in four cities in five nights. Crazy. Different time zones. That was wild, those. You know, it's part of where I was. Right. Uncertain. Some people want to see it live. A lot of people, you know, they want to see you face to face, sit down. So, yeah, I had to go 20 times. [00:34:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:03] Speaker B: Any crazy teams I know, boss. People talk about Boston. [00:34:06] Speaker C: Talk about Boston. Was fun. [00:34:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:07] Speaker C: That was a fun workout. All right. Me, Dennis Schroeder. [00:34:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:11] Speaker C: Steven Adams. Giannis. [00:34:13] Speaker B: Competitive or Giannis. Did you see Giannis before? Giannis. [00:34:17] Speaker C: This is who's in my workout? Yeah, I think it was us four. Shane Larkin. And then we had one more. They had this playing. First of all, Sam Cassell was on that staff. Ty Lu Young. Ty Lue. Who else on that side? A young doc. We was playing full court, one on one. That's what I do. So you already know how that workout looks. I murdered everybody. [00:34:44] Speaker B: Running them down. [00:34:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Shout out to those two guys. Love you two guys. And they're still playing, too, so they know it's not Cap. [00:34:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:53] Speaker B: I'm gonna see when Dennis, when he comes to town with time. [00:34:55] Speaker C: We know it's not Cap. Dennis knows. He knows. [00:34:58] Speaker B: Not Cap, obviously. End up playing summer league with Miami. Tell me how the opportunity came about and what was summer league? [00:35:05] Speaker C: Great opportunity. Any opportunity I got, I was always just grateful for. Learned a lot. They work hard. Miami's a hard program. They work hard. They're big on your fitness. Very, very big. I remember leading up to training camp, we had, like, a month together there in Miami, and I don't think I did anything in Miami but go to the gym. [00:35:28] Speaker B: Oh, I thought you about to see someone else. [00:35:29] Speaker C: No, Nothing. [00:35:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:30] Speaker C: I swear. [00:35:31] Speaker A: Wow. [00:35:31] Speaker C: Nothing. [00:35:31] Speaker B: That's crazy. [00:35:32] Speaker C: You're that tired from practice. [00:35:33] Speaker B: Damn, they work you. [00:35:35] Speaker C: Yeah. There's Miami, where I didn't go out once. For a whole month. It was gym, home gym, home, Miami, my whole month. That's how crazy the workouts were there. But obviously, I live in the gym, too. I'm a gym rat. Like, you know, after people are done doing things and license off, I'm back in there. So I am. [00:35:54] Speaker B: Yeah, obviously, you go undrafted. Was there Like a. Obviously that's tough going. Obviously people are talking about lottery buzzes kind of stuff. And then obviously the situation happens. What was that like going draft. It wasn't just more like, okay, I'm just going to take this on. On the. [00:36:07] Speaker C: Take it on. Yeah, Next thing. [00:36:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:09] Speaker C: Next play. [00:36:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:10] Speaker C: In basketball you can't dwell on the next play. If I shot an air ball, you think. Think I can care about, I got to shoot that thing. That was my whole mentality. And then shoot. I got the luckiest thing. I got to be with the spurs. And before 2A was a two way because literally I'm there again, years behind. I play in Austin and have to go to San Antonio. Literally just be on the bench, just cheer them on, you know, but not getting call up that day. But it was just those little things that I got to see and experience, I think with the spurs that made me have a longer career. Because if I could have been there, a different place my rookie year. You hear it a lot in NBA fit. You know, is it fit, right? And if. Does he have good veteran leadership in his locker? Does he have veterans that's making him be a bad pro. Not be on time, not take care of your body. I got to learn from Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, keep going. You know what I'm saying? [00:37:05] Speaker B: Corey Joseph was also on that team. On that team. [00:37:07] Speaker C: Kawhi Patty Mills, who I just coached this past year in Utah, which was nuts. [00:37:12] Speaker B: That's crazy. [00:37:12] Speaker C: Tell me full circle. [00:37:13] Speaker B: Yeah, full circle. What was la. [00:37:14] Speaker C: We see each other, we can't believe it. [00:37:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:17] Speaker C: You know, full circle. [00:37:18] Speaker B: But that's going at it. [00:37:20] Speaker C: Oh, man, that's not my dog. Yeah, he don't practice. He just comes, takes his shots, drinks his coffee. [00:37:27] Speaker B: He's a legend, man. [00:37:28] Speaker C: You know, he's at his point where, you know, he's a player coach now. But nah, it's just, you know, my experience not going on draft undrafted actually helped me because I got a spot that I got to learn what it means to be a pro on and off the court. One advice that Tim Duncan told me and I tell the story, everyone knows he told me one thing. He didn't say anything. One thing. Young fella, if you want to make in this career, in his business or career yourself, treat people how you want to be treated. The only thing he ever told me. So you think I'm ever gonna do that to anybody? All right, see me, I treat you the same way. That's how I was taught from a. This Is a one the best power forward probably to ever play ever. [00:38:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I got him like top. Top two, top three, where you got them all time. [00:38:15] Speaker A: Six. [00:38:16] Speaker C: Yeah, he's top 10. He's in the top 10 of all time for sure. It's just because it was not flashy. [00:38:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:20] Speaker C: But when people look back in like a couple years, oh my God. And you look at his highlights, oh, my Lord. This guy's a efficient. [00:38:25] Speaker B: I'll say. [00:38:27] Speaker C: That's why people hated him. [00:38:29] Speaker B: People might be mad at me. I got him ahead of somebody on this, on this table that we're looking at right now. [00:38:33] Speaker C: But hey, you know what? [00:38:35] Speaker B: Hey, what do you want to say today? [00:38:36] Speaker C: I know you want to know why you can. [00:38:38] Speaker B: Let's hear it. [00:38:38] Speaker C: Because at the end of the day, God bless the guys that are not with us and have transition. I watched it live. It was not pretty. It was inefficient. His teammates hate playing with him. That's part of being a good player. I'm sorry. Last time I checked. Who we picking on the wall? Are you picking someone that's chucking the ball all the time or someone that's going to play defense, block shots and let's call square. Square. It's like people forget in this Internet era, bro. I'm picking him. [00:39:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:09] Speaker C: I'm picking td. [00:39:10] Speaker B: I think it's a lot of revisionist history. So shout out to Kobe though. [00:39:12] Speaker C: Basketball players. We need to get back to what basketball is, bro. Call a square. [00:39:16] Speaker A: A square. [00:39:17] Speaker B: Keep it straight. [00:39:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:39:18] Speaker B: Shout out to Kobe. Obviously I'm great. [00:39:20] Speaker C: Legend. Third. Best shooting guard. [00:39:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:24] Speaker C: Second. [00:39:25] Speaker A: Okay. [00:39:25] Speaker C: Yes. [00:39:25] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [00:39:26] Speaker B: Second. [00:39:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:39:28] Speaker B: But yeah, obviously shout out to him. But obviously you're a Tim Duncan guy. You've seen it first hand. Practices, that kind of stuff. [00:39:34] Speaker C: Pros, pro. [00:39:35] Speaker B: Yeah, Both legends. We talked about Dan Hurley, we talked about Rick Barnes. But then Greg Popovich because what was it like? Any favorite stories from. Oh yeah, Greg Popovich being there. [00:39:47] Speaker C: So mind you, he's like a world activist, you know, so this guy knows everything that's happening around the world. And this is like how many years ago? So he knows how to pronounce first of all, the boombashi where I'm from. [00:40:00] Speaker A: Wow. [00:40:00] Speaker C: So this brings us in the Huddles training camp. And we had a training camp at an army base at the year we won in 2013, which was crazy because at the army base he made us do whatever the people were doing there. We had to do it. And there was a rule in the army base. You're not allowed to walk from class to class. So when you walk out and you're on the army base, you have to jog to your next. So we were doing this like the year when it chipped. So he brought everyone in. He's like, hey, we have a rookie. His name is Mike Cabongo. And you guys want to know something crazy? He's from Lubumbashi. I'm like, geez, how does this guy know I'm from the boom that tripped me out? And that just went to show me, man. From 1 to 12, 15. He cares about you. And that's the coaching method I have, bro. 1 through 15, I know something about you. I care about you. Because deep in basketball, just imagine you're a rookie. You think this guy doesn't know you. He's a Hall of Famer of a coach, and he knows how to pronounce where you're from. Your town in Africa. That was big time to me. [00:40:55] Speaker B: Legend, man. [00:40:56] Speaker C: Yeah, legend. That story is crazy. [00:40:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Legend for that, obviously. We talk about you and Corey growing up together. What was like being in San Antonio. [00:41:04] Speaker C: With him, man, me and Z were in the gym all the time. Drive to practice all the time. [00:41:09] Speaker B: You guys live together? [00:41:10] Speaker C: No, he picked me up from the hotel. I stayed at a hotel. He's, you know, he had his house, picked me up to practice, dropped me off. A lot of rides, a lot of conversations. Just with him last week for two weeks ago, for his birthday, FaceTimed him earlier, before I even came here. So that's lifetime, brother. And just happy for the careers he's had, you know, true pros, probably. Yeah, true pro. [00:41:30] Speaker B: He's a legend. Just talking about the longevity. And I think last time he was here with Orlando in Toronto, just talking about. He's played with, like, probably every or, like, knows at least every Canadian that's come through the stages, through. Through the. Through the. Through the landscape. And it's crazy just to think about Corey Joseph and his impact in Canadian basketball. What was it like for you, though? Obviously, playing in the G League, waiting for a call up. What was that? Anticipation? I'm guessing times they were close. There was like, I'm about to get it. And was there frustration at points too? I'm guessing too, obviously, just a lot of knowing that, like, I used to kill this guy in high school, you know, Like, I could play at this level too. [00:42:09] Speaker C: You know, for me, it's just I. I've. I've always got the notion of comparing out of my brain. First of all, that's why that's good. [00:42:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:19] Speaker C: I never cared about if he has opportunity. That was his opportunity. Yeah, I know what it is. If I know I'm better, I'm knowing. But I don't got to even think about it. I never had to. I understand. That's his opportunity. You know what I mean? I know the work that I put in. I know my game. For me, the frustration was there was not enough chances when I was there. There was no two ways. Oh, and it was called the D league. [00:42:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:41] Speaker C: So at the time I did play when it became the G League when there's two ways. But at this time I was, you know, it's hard for once you're out of that four, three year window out of college for a team to want to invest. At this point, my thought, you know, you don't really see guys that are 28, 29 getting two, two, two, two ways. So for me, the biggest thing was just the frustration of not getting the opportunity that was very scarce. But at the same time, it's just, you know, the way the cars were dealt for me, you know, I just use more motivation. Then it gave me the energy and the, you know, put the battery in my back to go overseas and put in even extra work and work even ten times harder. [00:43:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:17] Speaker C: That's all it did. It just motivated me. [00:43:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:19] Speaker B: How long were you in the. Obviously now it's called the G League. How long were you there? [00:43:23] Speaker C: Man, I was long. I played. I've played over 300 G League games. Damn, whatever that means. [00:43:29] Speaker B: What's the grind like just in terms of. People don't know about it too now I forgot who was I speaking to? Eugene Amarui Rextol guy. He was just going through playing with the rappers 9 to 5. I don't think people realize just like the grind it takes the mentality because you're just waiting. You're waiting for that call up. [00:43:47] Speaker C: Right. [00:43:49] Speaker B: How. And obviously the early stages, it wasn't like. It wasn't something that now there's, I feel like more investment, all this kind of stuff. What was it like in the early stages? [00:43:57] Speaker C: Early stages, no such thing as A. Like there used to be a top 10, like on the D league side. I was up there a couple times. 6. You see the numbers where you ranked. But it was very, very tough because teams had even the way roster spots were constructed, the way front office had it. There was only a couple 10 days you can give out to begin with. [00:44:16] Speaker A: Right. [00:44:16] Speaker C: Teams only had a certain amount and like things had to happen like a freak injury had to happen for you. You had to get. So you just waiting game of that. So it's just very tough back in the days. And the travel was tougher back in the day. Living was tougher back in the day. But obviously with the investment that the league has made to understand how good the G League is, these guys are good Hoopers, man. These guys are literally a phone call injury away from being the next a role player to help a team win. They're got, they're that good now. But it's just again, opportunity and I think an expansion team is in the works. It has to be because there's just too many good players. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Too many good players. [00:44:53] Speaker C: Too many good players. [00:44:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:54] Speaker B: Because now there's what I think, three, two way spots on every team. Yeah. And then you obviously you talk about like Alex Caruso was in the G League. Now this guy's an NBA two time NBA champion. Lou Dort was in the G League, spent time there. So like so much talent is just right opportunity, right for people. But obviously after that you decided to go overseas. Tell me the decision behind that. Was it, was it a tough one? Was it just like, was it like, hey, I'm ready for the next phase. [00:45:16] Speaker C: Next phase. It was like, this ain't working out. You know, let me just try something else. Love it. A game is dwindling a little bit. Let me go see something else to spark. And it did spark it. First couple places tough. But you know, it was the first spot. Romania. [00:45:33] Speaker B: Tell me about Romania. [00:45:34] Speaker C: Oh my. [00:45:37] Speaker B: I don't think about Romania when I think about basketball. [00:45:40] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:45:43] Speaker B: I think you're in Spain too. [00:45:44] Speaker C: No, Spain's love. [00:45:45] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:45:46] Speaker C: Spain. [00:45:46] Speaker B: I travel to Spain. [00:45:47] Speaker C: Moved to Spain. [00:45:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:48] Speaker C: 100 like I'd moved to Spain and lived there. [00:45:50] Speaker B: Where in Spain you played? [00:45:53] Speaker C: Northern. Nice. Yeah, Northern region. Very. I love them. Minana, everything. They're so calm. [00:45:58] Speaker B: Pick up some Spanish. [00:45:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:00] Speaker C: You know, they're so nice. Yeah, they're so nice there. Denmark's one of my favorite places too. But Romania was very tough because, geez, this was 14, whatever, 13, 12, however many years ago. I'm the only black person in my town. First of all, didn't see anybody the whole year that looked like me. Unless you're American. I'm playing against another side. That was crazy. That was a big difference for me. Tough. They didn't want to feed us. One time we lost the game in that town. And then I went out to dinner, mind you, and my teammate. Order something or take his order. I order, say they can't take my order. What you mean witness that happen over there? So my game already. I'm already, you know, I'm dealing with the town, dealing with racism. That's crazy. [00:46:59] Speaker B: People don't even hear. [00:47:00] Speaker C: In Romania they stab one of the players. Nothing long. Like seven years ago. You hear about that? Nah, I was not surprised. [00:47:05] Speaker A: Wow. [00:47:05] Speaker C: Even in the clubs, you go out there, the guys are looking at ready to scrap you just to fight, just because you black. Yeah, ready. So when I heard that story about the player that got stabbed up there. Yeah, not surprised. [00:47:15] Speaker B: Not surprised. [00:47:16] Speaker C: In Romania, not surprised, bro. Then my coach. [00:47:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:23] Speaker B: Was he just a hard like yelled for whatever. [00:47:27] Speaker C: That's why. [00:47:30] Speaker B: That'S why we need people. [00:47:31] Speaker C: Like you edited or not, but yeah, he's a Serbian coach. Mind you, if you know, you know. [00:47:36] Speaker B: Okay. [00:47:36] Speaker C: If you played overseas accident, is he. [00:47:38] Speaker B: Still a prominent coach? [00:47:40] Speaker C: I can't be. Yeah, can't be, can't be, can't be. [00:47:44] Speaker B: But no names though. [00:47:45] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't know his name too. No, it's not worth mentioning. [00:47:48] Speaker B: 100. [00:47:48] Speaker C: You know, it ain't really ain't. But he's just the guy that, you know, they think you're a robot over there and we're humans. You know, of course, when you're the import, you're supposed to score 50 points, but when you lose a game and over there you bus ride everywhere in Europe because everything's close. So we lost the game and we had to bus eight hours back to our town from our town from the. Because the games are so important to them. So important. The man said we got to go from the bus to practice. Mind you, we play the game. Mind you. [00:48:23] Speaker B: That's insane. [00:48:24] Speaker C: We had an eight hour bus ride. What? Mind you, it's six in the morning. [00:48:28] Speaker B: He'S lost his mind. [00:48:30] Speaker C: Lost it. So I'm the only one that thinks this is not normal. [00:48:34] Speaker B: Oh, so they're used to this? The players are used to this? [00:48:37] Speaker C: I don't think so, no. Because everyone's looking like, what is this is bs but obviously I'm the only one that's not going. So. Yeah, I guess just the revolutionary in me, man. Because he tried to make us go and I could see our big guy on our team was not going. This guy played so hard, bro. And you could just see and read the room. He might get hurt if he runs another mile. So coach is making us run sprints six in the morning just for a loss. I'm the fastest guy in the game, so I'm losing every time. So that goes to show you how slow I was running. And I'm running behind our big fella. And he just came up in my face, hey, you better run faster or else I'm gonna. And he tried to fight me. Teammates, you know, got into it and said, hey, but that goes to show you sometimes that it could treat you overseas like you're not humane. [00:49:23] Speaker B: People don't know that. [00:49:24] Speaker C: No. And then on top of that, what he said on the paper afterwards, oh. [00:49:29] Speaker B: He'S talking crazy, right? [00:49:30] Speaker C: And then the story gets spun about a player. That's not the reality of what it was, you know, and then on the paper it was, I can't play here. I'm not at this level. But in reality is, you just don't like me. But when he put that tag out and put it on the paper, it's my first time being in Europe. [00:49:46] Speaker B: That's a stigma. [00:49:46] Speaker C: This tag stays with you now. So now it's the game that could be played with players. It's kind of tough, and I had to have that in my career. But, you know, I over. I overleap that because I let my play do the talking. And my character, when people met me, they're like, you know what I mean? Nothing close to that. I'm like, yeah, because you can't let one notion or one. Something that someone says where it's not a reliable source, you know, that can't be a reliable source. But, yeah, that's a crazy story, right? [00:50:13] Speaker B: Yeah, that's crazy, man. People. I feel like people should know about that, too, because a lot of guys go overseas, they think it's sweet, and then they get there and it's not. [00:50:20] Speaker C: For the faint of heart. Nah, you gotta love basketball. [00:50:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:23] Speaker C: If you don't love basketball, you'll be on a quick flight back home, you know, and that was what. I made it there past the month, you know, and now over there, I saw what we got. We cut four Americans in a month span. Like, one guy lasted two days. One guy was a week, the other guy was three days. You know, man, revolving door. [00:50:46] Speaker B: So, anyway, listen, this. Do not go to play basketball in Romania. [00:50:49] Speaker C: No, I would say that it probably is better, you know, probably. My experience is completely different. But I say these for learning experience. Hopefully you learn to look out for these things and hopefully don't happen to you. But I always think your experience is going to be better than me because it has to be, you know. Has to be. Yeah. [00:51:04] Speaker B: Obviously. You played France Macedonian. What was your Favorite spot overseas? [00:51:10] Speaker C: Mexico. [00:51:10] Speaker B: Mexico. Tell me about that. What was Mexico like? [00:51:13] Speaker C: Mexico. Summer league was fun. We played for Gene Cross, who's now with the New York Knicks. A scout. Shout out to Gene. Incredible coach. Me and my dogs, we. We popped out like 12 games in a row. We're on fire. I ended up getting hurt and broke my wrist. I got undercut. It was messed up. And then I tried to rush back for the playoffs. We ended up losing. [00:51:34] Speaker B: Oh, so you loved it. You rushed back. [00:51:35] Speaker C: I rushed back and the team kept me because usually they're, you know, after injury, you're not gonna. They'll send you home. They loved me, you know, it felt like home, felt like a place that finally. Hermosillo. Hermosillo Lights, I think is her name. What's our name? Rajos. Hermosillo Rayo. Shout out to you guys. One of the best teams I've ever played for. Incredible place. Yeah. Incredible place, incredible people. Yeah. Just my teammates, we just all knew each other's game who were clicking on all cylinders, winning by like 40, 30, and then it just got cut short by an injury. But for me, my favorite place to play is where we've been winning. As a player, that's all I care about. I don't care about weather, I don't care about girls. I don't care about money. I care about where I was winning. That's all I care about. [00:52:17] Speaker B: Yeah, it's funny too because I think about you had a successful 10 year playing career. A lot of people think the NBA is the be all, end all for young kids. What's your message on one ac? The stuff that you've accomplished and the journey that you had. And what would you say to them? Just about like life outside of, just maybe just like chasing like the NBA is obviously like everyone wants to play there, everyone wants to be there. But what's your message to them that are like, maybe they don't get to that point and they don't like obviously stay there for a long time. [00:52:46] Speaker C: Yeah. It's not your end all. It's not your end all. It could feel like it because that's something you chase as a kid and you know, you've had your eyes set on it, but you have to have a strong support system. I'm grateful I got a good one, you know, I got good family, good mom, good dad, good brothers, good sisters. So I'm grateful I got that. You got to keep that. And life is such a journey, you know. Life is such a journey and basketball is a journey as well, it's just like life. You just can't think basketball is basketball because it's just like life as well. And sometimes that's what you think when you're in it. You just think, this is my everything. But it's like life. Like, we know that life. Go outside. Might rain today. If you forget your coat, guess what? You're gonna get rained on. And that's okay, because tomorrow, you don't have tomorrow. But they don't teach you that in basketball. That's what players need to understand. Like you. You did your best. [00:53:37] Speaker A: You. [00:53:37] Speaker C: You presented yourself. [00:53:38] Speaker A: At least. [00:53:39] Speaker C: You showed up on the court. And guess what? It's okay if you don't go to the NBA. You showed up. Our people don't show up, you know, so you gotta give yourself the grace, give yourself the compassion in your journey. And I think wherever you end up is where you're supposed to be. It's where you're supposed to be. [00:53:55] Speaker B: Play for the Congo national team. [00:53:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:57] Speaker B: Tell me how that happened, because I think that's. To me, that's so cool. Going back playing for your. [00:54:01] Speaker C: For your forever bag. Rowan Barrett. [00:54:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:05] Speaker B: Oh, tell me about that. Because obviously, you play for Canada, right? [00:54:07] Speaker C: Yeah. Because obviously playing for Canada, you know, which meant so much to me. Playing for the national team is the highest form of basketball you can get to. [00:54:15] Speaker B: Biggest honor. [00:54:15] Speaker C: Biggest honor. I was grateful that I got to share that. But then something hit to me. You know, I'm Canadian, but I'm African. I'm born in Africa. And I feel like when they reached out to me, at first, it was a thing where it's like, okay, come on. Come play. And then I realized it meant more than me because, believe it or not, I was the first exterior player to come back to Africa and play. Prior to that, no one did that ever. So I was the first one ever. So when I did that, guys from Nigeria started doing it. Then it started like they started seeing it, because this was 2016, 17, where I went back, because I just understood how much it meant for me to go back and see my people where I was born, no infrastructure. We played in outdoor basketball courts. You see the way the esplanade. That was a national team practicing. Imagine seeing team Canada full on. Practice full. Imagine how crazy that. Look outside. Guys are diving for balls outside. I said, oh, these guys are different. [00:55:18] Speaker B: Love for the game, bro. [00:55:20] Speaker C: They're falling. And I'm like, bro, you're not hurt. It's one of my complaints. [00:55:24] Speaker B: Nothing. [00:55:25] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, that was my wake up Call about there's nothing I can complain about when I come back here. These guys have no shoes. First of all, we leave practice from the bus. No AC on the bus, Cramped up bus. There's a kid on the side that looks just like me who stays there without a mom and a dad, no food, nothing. When we go for our first practice, he's still there. We go for our second practice, he's still there. And I'm complaining. I didn't. I don't think I see this kid eat. No adult supervision. He's just on the streets. And guess what? I seen this guy for a whole month, whole two months. This is what. He lives on the street, street kids. So that hit me on a whole nother level of why I'm doing what I'm doing. So I know at the end of the day, it's bigger than myself. I got a battle that I gotta try and help back home. But of course I gotta do what I gotta do here. But if I could, it's to go back home and help what we got going on, no gyms, you know what I'm saying? No infrastructure. Because you see the body types, what we can produce. Imagine if they get the infrastructure, the coaching, the right nutrition, you know, even knowing how to take care of your body. Sleeping properly. Where our game can be in Africa, you know. [00:56:32] Speaker B: So how do you think the game has grown? Because I'll be honest, I was just at TIFF and I watched the origin, the story of the Basketball Africa League and I think it was episode two. I saw you in it, you're in it hooping and you played in obviously the inaugural ball league. What was that experience like? And obviously like the. The partnership with the NBA and the Bali. How did they get you involved in that? And obviously talked about how important it was for you to play for the national team in Congo. And then being involved in such an important, I feel like next phase in like the. The growth of basketball in a continent. [00:57:06] Speaker C: Like Africa, first of all, it's going to be the next place where the best players are coming from, period. Is just again, you see what Masai is doing. Global, the basketball without borders and stuff like that. And what Mama do is doing with Bow, it's next level, like he's trying to make it what it's supposed to be. The way you envision our people doing a league centered, catered to players, treating players the right way, payment on time. Just things that these players deserve, a continent deserves. They're finally getting it. And I believe, and I know probably you can quote me back when this quote come out. They're going to make their first million playing basketball. Send me these guys from this league. You know how crazy that is that a league in Africa can pay out their players a million dollars and they're home. They don't have to go to America, China, Europe. They stay home. Incredible. That's going to be so life changing. That's what's going to happen. So I just can't wait to see the day that these kids that are born in Africa had the infrastructure there, everything set up there, make a million dollars there, USD money, help their families. Now they're helping their communities. Now they're pouring back in. And now these are the little pockets that we can see that can help build the game there. So I'm just excited and can't wait to see that day. [00:58:36] Speaker B: What was like being part of it because obviously I seen the, the quarantine, that kind of stuff. They show that kind of stuff. You think three, four days of quarantine before you played, what was that like, being part of it? And I'm guessing maybe 10 years from now you look back being like, wow, like I really took part in a way. [00:58:53] Speaker C: I'm the assistant leader. [00:58:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:58:55] Speaker C: I had the highest ever. [00:58:56] Speaker B: That's crazy. [00:58:57] Speaker C: 10.9. [00:58:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:58] Speaker C: Ever. It's documented. That's still up there. [00:59:01] Speaker A: Wow. [00:59:01] Speaker C: Look that up and I'm gonna look it up, you know, something slight. [00:59:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:04] Speaker C: But just in the league that I knew that I had to plan. [00:59:11] Speaker A: Because. [00:59:11] Speaker C: Of the importance of what it means to be from home and playing home, even when we played in different places like Egypt, we had the fat. The fan base is there. It's crazy. It's like, yo, it's hard. Hostile we go to Tunisia's. Hostile, we go. It's like if it's supposed to feel like it's just they were dying to have some sort of attention to it. And I think that's what this league brings. And I'm blessed to be in our year, blessed to be in the year following. Blessed to see the growth with it. Blessed to be someone that I'm, I know, you know, the commissioner sees a lot in because he's one of my mentors, one of the guys that I can count on still answers his phone to this day. So I'm, I'm very appreciative of people like him, what they're trying to do. Very appreciative of people like him, Messiah, what they're trying to do with the game. Because there's a Lot of hidden gems and golden gems there that's waiting to blossom. Yeah. [01:00:07] Speaker B: I don't know if it was the game you were in, but I saw the French president was there. Rwandan president Paul. [01:00:11] Speaker C: Yep. Yeah, they was there for our game. [01:00:13] Speaker B: For a game, right. How crazy was that? There's another Africa. [01:00:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:18] Speaker C: Imagine so much we saw. Who else was there was not Wiz. I think it was the other dude, Big Burner boy. [01:00:26] Speaker B: Burna boy. [01:00:27] Speaker C: Burna boy came out like crazy, man. You know, crazy. Like it's. It's growing. It's just cool. That about time. That's all I gotta say. It's about time. About time. [01:00:37] Speaker B: I read a story to where you played J. Cole. One of your songs too. [01:00:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:00:40] Speaker B: Yeah, tell me about that. [01:00:42] Speaker C: So, funny story is me and him known each other since high school. Me and Nicole been knowing each other since high school. And Abraham, who is his manager, big time basketball fanatic. Me and him been close, so we always stay in contact. They've been knowing I do the music sometimes too. So when we got quarantined, we got, you know, seeing each other in the hallway, talked, gave him pointers about his game, you know, took the coach and took the pointers, and I said, yo, I got something, you know, possibly you want to hear. So I sent him the record. Fire, by the way. Loved it, but he just didn't hop on it, though. But he did love the record. It was a fire record too. I don't think I ever put it out, but that was my rapping days. [01:01:24] Speaker B: I might have to hear after this. [01:01:25] Speaker C: Yeah, my little brother got it though. [01:01:26] Speaker B: Now he's doing his thing. Shout out to Jonathan. [01:01:29] Speaker C: Yeah, little bro got it. Now I'm retired, so he could do his thing. [01:01:31] Speaker B: Nice. Oh, yeah, talk about retirement. Obviously you decided to hang it up. I think it was around this time last year. [01:01:36] Speaker A: Right? [01:01:37] Speaker B: Tell me about the moment you decided. Like, I've given all I can to playing, transition to coaching, but was there a moment where you're like, man, I enjoyed this and it's time to move on? [01:01:49] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it was like a year and a half before I retired. I'm playing in Qatar, first of all. I'm having 40, 50 point games Ballin. Like I'm balling. I'm playing like high level. Like, I'm feeling great. This is the best. I felt like the ball, whenever I shot, it was going in. Didn't matter who was playing. Me body felt great waking up every day, but I was not getting fulfillment from doing this. The fulfillment I was Getting from was we had this young kid, Abdullah, 15, 16 years old, young boy on the team. I would stay with him at the P. He used to just look up to me, right. So I'd stay at the practice with him, work with him. And then one day I told him, do something in the game. He did it. It worked. I got so much joy from that, didn't it felt better than my 4050 point games. I was like, dang, this is crazy. It might be time. That's when it was like, yeah, I don't, I don't even want to do this no more. It's like I could do it at a high level, but I'm not getting fulfillment from doing this anymore. Like it didn't even going to practice didn't feel fun. And I used to love practice. Like practice. I would never want to miss practice ever in my life. Practice is not fun anymore. So I'm like, yeah, this is not something I should be doing. You know, I'm cheating the game. I'm cheating the game. If I'm trying to go places and I know I don't want to do it, you know, I'm getting offers to go places. It's like I'm waiting. I'll be like, yeah, I'll wait next month. And I'm just keep waiting. I'm like, I shouldn't be doing this to the game. I think that's disrespecting the game. And I'm like, yeah, I can get, I can give respect to the game in a different way. And this form right now feels the best. [01:03:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:24] Speaker B: What was it like hitting send on that Instagram post that you retiring? [01:03:29] Speaker C: It was calm. Put it through AI. Make sure there's no spell checks. You do what you gotta do. This is my words. Mix it up and go good. [01:03:37] Speaker B: I don't use it though. I'm a journalist. I don't use it. [01:03:39] Speaker C: So I don't use it. But I had to for that one. Yeah. [01:03:41] Speaker B: Just to make sure, you know. [01:03:43] Speaker C: Well, those are word my words. [01:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:45] Speaker C: But no, I just felt calm. I just felt at peace. I felt good about it. I felt like, yeah, I did all I can do with the game and I think it's just time for me to give myself to the game in a different way. And I think this is the best way that I can give for what I've learned. So I think I've learned some things too that I can give back to the game and to the next generation. Yeah. [01:04:03] Speaker B: And obviously getting to coach and you talked about it. Obviously, having those legendary coaches kind of got you into it. And I think you even spoke about it in past interview. Like, next year, I want to get into coaching. Tell me how the opportunity with the Utah Jazz G League summer, not G League, G League team happened. [01:04:18] Speaker C: No, so I just, you know, I have good, I would say, mentors. Rowan Barrett being one of them. Steve Nash being another one, reaching out to them and telling them, hey, I'm done playing. I don't know which direction I want to go to. And they asked me possibly different, gave me different outlines and, you know, outlets to see which one would fall for me. And I went to our. Our junior academy that we had in Niagara. He just said, hey, go pop out. You know, you're not gonna get paid, but just go out, pop out, see if you like it. Had so much fun. Loved it. And from there, I was like, oh, maybe this is what I want to do. And just, you know, step coming around the program, keep coming around. The stuff that Canada basketball was doing. Then from the gym, everyone said I was pretty good at what I was doing, which is, you know, player, developmental, and possibly coaching. And then, you know, opportunity came from there. People just saw me at. When we were getting ready for the Olympics with our national team. [01:05:09] Speaker B: That's where I saw you first. I see you in Vegas. [01:05:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:12] Speaker B: You're out with the team. I think you guys are training at, like, the unlv. [01:05:16] Speaker C: Exactly. So from there, I'm having NBA interviews with teams. And then from there, Utah was the one that stuck. And then, yeah, I got a chance to coach there with Scott Morrison. [01:05:25] Speaker B: Scott Morrison, legendary Canadian coach. [01:05:27] Speaker C: Shout out to him, who's taking me under his wing. Just someone that, you know, you want to just learn from the best. I know that I'm a player, and I can have all the player experience, but I don't have the coaching experience. And that's why I'm a sponge. I want to learn from all the Best because, you know, I'm going to take bits and pieces of things I like from them, don't like, and then still have my own little flair, my own little twist, because I'm different. I was a different player. So be a different type of coach, Something different than people have seen. [01:05:52] Speaker B: I was gonna ask, how would you describe yourself as a coach? Player development. [01:05:57] Speaker C: So if you were interviewing me, how would you think you'd describe this? Interview me? [01:06:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I think this is a dope interview. This is a fire. [01:06:03] Speaker C: This is. [01:06:04] Speaker B: You know what? This is a. I don't know. I'll hopefully bring a new twist to interviewing style. Obviously, like, coming from where I come from and the players that I've seen come out, that kind of stuff. Like, I have sort of this relationship with basketball and the players that I've seen come out of this neighborhood. Like, I understand where they come from in a way, and hopefully I could relate to that while I'm talking to them from my lived experience, you know. [01:06:29] Speaker C: So the first two words that I heard you come out your mouth was dope and fire. That's the type of coach you have. Dope and I'm fire. Got it all. Player development. What you need on and off the court. Most importantly, I put you in positions to succeed. Not going to put you in an offense that's not going to fit into what you have with your tools and your offensive bag. We're not going to play a defensive scheme that does not fit the notion. Are we a scrappy team? Can we defend? Can we fight? We have to figure out how to do it if we don't, because that's how you have to play defense to win at a high level. And then secondly, respecting the game. I've always respected the game. I've never taken a shortcut ever. I told you. What was I doing? I'm sorry I'm late. I got our workouts running late. [01:07:12] Speaker B: Yeah, you're doing a workout. I was like, hey, brother, don't worry about it, man. You come on. [01:07:15] Speaker C: I don't shortcut the game. [01:07:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:17] Speaker C: I never shortcut the game. So that's the kind of coach I am. I'm a coach that's never going to shortcut the game. Players are going to be maximized offensively, defensively, and on and off the court. You're going to become a better person because this game is going to teach you the things to become successful. Literally, you. I can. How many of you guys have been on a team in here? [01:07:37] Speaker B: A lot of you. Yeah. [01:07:38] Speaker C: How much being on a team has helped you? Seriously? Seriously. That real talk, basketball helps you, prepares you for other things in life. And it's the man. It's a matter of who, when the leader. That man, whoever is leading men is doing right by them. And I think I'm going to do right whenever I can lead a group of men. [01:07:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:56] Speaker B: Obviously training, obviously, with Canada basketball, Humber College. See some guys, I see some videos and that kind of stuff. I even saw a clip of you working out with one of my young boys from Esplanade. I think we got a post of them right there. Yousef. [01:08:07] Speaker C: Yes. [01:08:08] Speaker B: I mean, if you're working on recently, tell me, is he nice, bro? Is he nice? You see the next one up? I see them working out with Andrew Nemhard. [01:08:16] Speaker C: We just left the gym just now. [01:08:18] Speaker B: Just now. That was him, bro. That was him. [01:08:21] Speaker C: First of all, he was calling me out. [01:08:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:23] Speaker C: He wanted to play me. I like that. [01:08:25] Speaker B: Oh, he talks. [01:08:26] Speaker C: I was like, who is this? [01:08:27] Speaker B: Hey, we call Wimby, man. [01:08:28] Speaker C: He's. [01:08:28] Speaker B: Come on. [01:08:29] Speaker A: He. [01:08:30] Speaker C: First of all, when I saw him. So this is us just now. [01:08:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:33] Speaker B: You show me a video of him working out. Of course. [01:08:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:36] Speaker C: I just. I don't know who he is. I'm seeing his face, so I just, you know, he just takes one shot. First of all, from one shot I saw. [01:08:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:43] Speaker C: The way it left his hand. [01:08:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:45] Speaker C: The touch, the feel, the size, and then the. [01:08:51] Speaker B: The heart. [01:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:52] Speaker C: He's not backing down. Yeah, I love it. Has a chance. Has a chance. Like a young Penny Hardaway. Long, athletic, looks like he has natural feel. Just natural. And he wants to work. Like I was coaching him. He was not scared to take the coaching, which is tough because some young players don't. Can't, you know. But the fact that he was not scared. Andrew's in there, too. He's not scared. You know, you belong. He belongs. [01:09:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:18] Speaker B: He's a rising town, I think North Pole hoops, obviously, they do some stuff. They have my fifth. [01:09:24] Speaker C: Don't worry. Rankings in high school don't matter. I'm saying. Right. High school, it's a good jump start. [01:09:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:30] Speaker C: But it's. Once you get to college and yeah, the pros, which you'll have an opportunity. I told him, as long as you just. Good circle around, you stay humble, keep the work, keep the main thing. The main thing, like, you shouldn't be worried about. Likes, followers, none of that right now. It's just basketball. Who's better than me? I want to play you. That's it. [01:09:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:50] Speaker C: You know, I think he has his shoulders straight. He's tough. [01:09:53] Speaker B: Recruitment starting to pick up. We got to get him working out with you more often. [01:09:56] Speaker C: I told him, too. Whatever they need. Like, yeah, we're locking in while I'm here. Hell, yeah, he's tough. [01:10:00] Speaker B: Say less. [01:10:01] Speaker C: I know he's from esp. [01:10:03] Speaker B: You know what, he's from Moss Park. But, you know, we. We had to correct myself, you know, but it's close enough. He's as pulled out, man. [01:10:13] Speaker C: You can claim it. [01:10:14] Speaker B: They be playing at King Heights. You, Ahmed, go watch him. He's a young talent Coming up, you talked about. What's your advice for young guys? Coming up. [01:10:21] Speaker C: Keep the main thing. The main thing. You guys have too many distractions now, man. Social media, you know. [01:10:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:27] Speaker C: Everyone's going viral. And on top of that, it's like you just see the end result of what these guys have worked for. You only seen Shay had these magazine colors, covers, and all this drip because he work. You guys think it's just given. It's never given. It's earned. Everything is earned in this game. And sometimes I have to tell young players, you could put a lot of work into the game and sometimes the game won't love you back. And sometimes you're gonna have to be fine with that, you know, because you could put all the work that you want and it's not gonna love you back. But at the same time, don't cut yourself short by not putting the work in and keeping the main thing. The main thing. It takes a lot of sacrifice. Your friends want to go out to this party or are you gonna sit back and do your homework? Those are real decisions these kids have to make nowadays. You know, are we going to go to this jam or am I going to sleep in tonight? [01:11:17] Speaker B: I'm not a player. I'll go out to the. [01:11:19] Speaker C: But I'm saying these players. Am I sitting back of the class with the clowns or am I sitting in the front where I'm actually learning something in this class for this semester? I know what's going on in these classes. I've been there. Make the sacrifice now, because five, six, 10 years down the line, you're gonna look back and you never want to look back and say, man, I could have. [01:11:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:39] Speaker C: And we all know those type of people. [01:11:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:41] Speaker C: You know, don't want to be the one of those guys. [01:11:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:43] Speaker B: I seen you head coaching at the tbt. [01:11:45] Speaker C: Yes, sir. [01:11:45] Speaker B: The basketball tournament, I believe. What was that experience like for you first? Head coaching? [01:11:50] Speaker C: Yes. [01:11:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:50] Speaker C: Incredible fun. Missed the free throw away, but learning experience. It was fun because now I know I can trust my work. I can trust my staff. I know. I think I had a great staff. You can't do it without yourself, which is a huge thing. And I think for me, what I learned is I give in this business sometimes. Some people don't allow the collaborative job to work as to. I'd allow it to work because I think once you have a room full of basketball minds, you're in there for a reason. So everyone can bring something to the table. [01:12:24] Speaker B: You got to bring each other up. [01:12:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:26] Speaker C: There's no, there's no need for me not to hear what you have and what you saw. Just because I think I played basketball, no, you probably seen something completely different. So I'm a coach that I encourage that I want to hear every voice because at the end of the day, yeah, I know I'm the final voice, but you guys can dictate and help me see a clearer picture than I did before. So that's the reason. What I think I did well and what I think I'll be great at when I get a chance to continue to lead men is, you know, give the energy from my staff, have great basketball minds around me so that, you know, we can put a great product on the floor that represents who we are. [01:12:58] Speaker B: I love that because I feel like a lot of times maybe, maybe in the States, but I feel like especially Canada and Toronto, basketball guys are very territorial when it comes to certain things. I'm guessing you experience it too. But who's it? Mustafa, the one that connected us, obviously. He does his runs out in. In downtown Toronto at tmu. So, like just like even just helping people out, just connecting people. I think that's the biggest thing, like your people talk about your network is your what your wealth, like and all that kind of stuff. [01:13:20] Speaker C: So harp on that. Yeah, this might not be a fun one. They might kill me for this. [01:13:25] Speaker B: Let's hear. [01:13:25] Speaker C: But I'd rather say it while I'm alive in my flesh. A lot of insecurity. I'm not insecure. I know who I am as a basketball player. You know what I'm saying? I know what I can bring to a room. So for me, if a player wants to work with you and he feels like he can get that from you, player knows best, what's for him. I'll never feel away, ever. Because the players who. He knows what's best for him. We need to stop saying, that's my player. I own him. Because you don't own these players. That. That needs to stop too. I don't really. That language and doesn't sit well with my soul when I hear people like, that's my player. It ain't your player, bro. He's his own player. He's his own person and he's going to pick what's best for him. So that notion of this is my guy, you can do. Didn't know. Stop that talk. Let the player dictate what's best for the player and let's support that because one day it might be you. And guess what? Next week it might be you. So be it. You know what I mean? So that's what I'm seeing with this culture that we got to try and nip. And if I'm the voice for it, I'll be it because I'm very secure about myself. Always been and has been. [01:14:30] Speaker B: It takes a village, too. It's not just one person that that's responsible for one person. And it's better to have multiple coaches or whatever it is because, like, you get different insights, expertise from guys. [01:14:41] Speaker A: Right. [01:14:42] Speaker B: But for you, like, what's next for you? Now, obviously, we talked about coaching the G League with the Utah Jazz team, and obviously you're working out guys, working on my. My young boy. What's next for you? [01:14:55] Speaker C: Being the best version I can to continue to help the game. Wherever I'm needed and appreciate is where you'll see me. So whenever you see me next is you can count on that's a place where they needed me and I was appreciated, and that's why I'm there. So that's where you'll see me next, is where I was needed, where I'm appreciated. [01:15:10] Speaker B: Any goals? NBA, that kind of stuff. I see you as a player. If I'm a guy in the league. [01:15:15] Speaker C: You know, my thing is, man, we've all set goals, but I know there's one person that can tell me where it's going to be. I know I just got to present my best version, and he'll navigate me there. So I don't ever have now set goals. I just know I'm on my path. Clearly, it's this one. If I have the right and the right body for it, God will continue to propel me where I need to be. So, yeah, no goals. [01:15:39] Speaker B: No goals. [01:15:40] Speaker C: No goals. [01:15:40] Speaker B: I love it. Living the moment. [01:15:41] Speaker C: Living the moment. I have to. I set out goals when I was younger, and I didn't like how that felt. Like when you set them where it goes. Do I have intentions? Yeah. I don't wake up without intentions. Now I have intentions. But to say I have to make this, and if I don't, it's this. I don't do that to myself because that's an expectation that it's rather. When I get hurt or that expectation gets hurt, I rather not live my life like death. [01:16:04] Speaker A: I love that. [01:16:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:16:05] Speaker B: Perfect words, man. [01:16:06] Speaker C: Yeah. You can't live your life like that. [01:16:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:08] Speaker C: Stress, bro. [01:16:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:09] Speaker C: You don't need that. [01:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:10] Speaker C: Enough stress already in this life. [01:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:12] Speaker C: Don't put it on yourself. [01:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:13] Speaker B: Yeah, Mike, I can't thank you enough for coming on this podcast. Anything else you want to add? I feel like people can learn a lot just from your story and just your journey, how much you're giving back. [01:16:23] Speaker C: I say keep doing you guys are doing. This podcast is incredible. The stories that are coming out of here, you guys have it first of all in a declarated part of the city and I hope tell them. No, I'm serious. If I could like help out or send like a guest or someone that's big time or something so the stories can keep going. I think this is big time. We gotta keep doing it. So I'm just grateful you guys had me on here and yeah, any way I can help you, you know what I mean? Let me know. [01:16:45] Speaker B: Of course, man. I can't thank you enough. Mike. Love a Toronto legend, downtown legend, basketball legend, man. If you don't know, tap in with him. I feel like one of the coaches that's gonna be coming up in in Canada that you're going to be hearing a lot from. Hopefully we will do a story, man. We're gonna Toronto Star. We'll do a story eventually. We'll stay topped in from Blake street, sir, to the world, man. Mike, I can't thank you enough. This has been the Canadian Basketball show. Your go to spot the latest news, stories and analysis on Canadian basketball. It's been your boy Lee Band. Mike. [01:17:15] Speaker A: Sir. [01:17:16] Speaker B: Thank you guys so much. Always love.